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BobDawg3294 t1_j3eufrg wrote

Unfortunately, many people no longer trust scientists give accurate directions, not to mention advice about COVID

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Better-Win-4113 t1_j3fwas4 wrote

any idea why that might be?

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Krasmaniandevil t1_j3g0pbf wrote

People assume that the indeterminate nature of the scientific method is a license to ignore evidence. Anti-science people looooove cherry picking scientists who were mocked at the time who were later vindicated, even though the same people don't appreciate how we know those theorists were ultimately correct (e.g., heliocentrism, germ theory, etc.).

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newishdm t1_j3guvw4 wrote

I think it also has a lot to do with politicians constantly saying “the science on this is settled” as a way to brow beat their political opponents. The scientific method dictates that “the science” is never settled. The scientific method is literally predicated on the idea that you should always question everything. Anyone who tells you to “not question the science” is obviously trying to deceive you.

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jayv9779 t1_j3gy42v wrote

At a certain point people need to realize we evolved for instance. They need to be able to accept certain findings and not waste time. Evolution is settled in that we know for a fact allele changes happen. Some just can’t accept basic things that are now facts.

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lobojones6six6 t1_j3h70vw wrote

Any idea on how or why those changes happened to cause said evolution?? Can you comment on the role diseases and viruses play? Evolution is just adaptation to your environment. Survival of the fittest , not survival of the over inoculated. Like nature has evolved to keep populations in check , we've side stepped that and look where that got us.

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jayv9779 t1_j3h7h54 wrote

Environmental pressures according to the Theory of Natural Selection. Which is well documented if you care to read up on it. Survival of the fittest means the most fit to the environment which vaccines help with. Notice the distinct lack of small pox for instance.

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lobojones6six6 t1_j3h8bo2 wrote

Environmental pressure like surviving disease? Pre vaccine. Some bodies can handle some can't. May not even come down to physical fitness but genetic makeup. Yes , lack of small pox... but at same time over population. Over population is bad , if you care to read up on it. You kinda side stepped the issue of human species sidestepping nature's checks and balances on species. Where does our evolution go from here once we've eliminated all environmental pressures? Do we then stagnate and become unable to survive?

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jayv9779 t1_j3hd0vv wrote

No. We still face pressures. There are a lot of them. Evolution still moves along. To be clear, evolving in the context of science doesn’t mean that it is always a good thing. There isn’t some overall cosmic goal. It just happens when we breed. The earth can sustain our population. It is overtaxed in many areas because of concentrations. If we get on a good plan of comprehensive sex ed and freely available contraception then the numbers will fall. They have already started in many advanced nations.

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lobojones6six6 t1_j3hhxys wrote

Yes like I said not physical fitness but instead genetics , like as you said what happens when we breed. And yes sometimes as you said it's not always a good thing , which is where the adaptation becomes an advantage or disadvantage. Some were cut out to survive , some were not. All depends on the situation , like skin color and sun exposure. Some skin pigmentation works in some climates some better in others. You bring up concentrations of people overtaking areas and say the earth can sustain and to some part I agree but we can't spread out and inhabit every corner of land , not all of it is habitable. You must admit humans have made it through a lot and more than we even understand at this date , but they did it without all the fancy modern tech. Were all an example of what nature can provide over time and I'll take that over what we as humans can conjure. All in all humans have become arrogant as a species and that's not a trait that is desirable for future sustainability.

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jayv9779 t1_j3hizzq wrote

So do you think medical advances are a bad thing? We live longer lives now and are generally in a much better position as far as healthcare options now compared to ancient times.

We can also spread out more than we do and the internet could help that through delivery and remote work.

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EB123456789101112 t1_j3lmcqb wrote

If I might offer my bit, this convo reads like you two are talking past each other. Neither of you seem to be truly seeking to understand the other and simply seem to be looking to advance your own argument (despite asking very very pointed questions).

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jayv9779 t1_j3lmfm9 wrote

I answered his questions. He just didn’t grasp it. They are basically anti modern medicine. It isn’t a very logical position based on evidence.

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EB123456789101112 t1_j3lmpbi wrote

Nothing like that good ol spirit of humility to start the day, amiright?

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jayv9779 t1_j3ln1ed wrote

Feel free to point out where and I will be glad to clarify. Your attempt to help is not currently effective as we do not have any examples.

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EB123456789101112 t1_j3lnzgh wrote

I was just attempting to have fun w you. I don’t have a dog in the fight. I saw both sides to the argument.

He was essentially arguing something similar to a modern Malthusian argument (the planet can only support so many people before famine, nature, whatever begins to cull them unavoidably). And you countered w but modem meds, tech advances, and natural reproduction patterns show that’s maybe not the case.

Am I understanding both right?

I can see points to both arguments and don’t think either is entirely right or entirely wrong. We just can’t tell yet. The problem is the developing nations are countering the trends of the developed ones. That’s where the real crux lies. Does the overpopulation of India outnumber the under population of Japan, South Korea and Europe? Same with vaxxes, starvation, etc. it’s just too early to tell. But I’d like to be hopeful.

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jayv9779 t1_j3lohfm wrote

They were suggesting that humans would stop evolving because of a lack of pressures. That humans were better off before modern tech. There is a myth out there that the old world was better but it ignores massive health advances. It is the old everything modern is evil. I could be strawmaning a bit but I think I am close.

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shohin_branches t1_j3h1vjf wrote

Because they made it through high school and stopped learning so they sit on a Dunning Kruger peak thinking they know everything. Everytime someone says there are only two biological sexes because there are only XX and XY chromosome in women and men, but didn't get to advanced genetics in collage where you learn about trisomies, tetrasomies, pentasomies, and turner's syndrome.

They can't even comprehend how complex the world really is and if it's not simplified to the point they can understand then they pretend it doesn't exist. Makes it easier to act like you know everything when you have no comprehension about what you don't know.

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old_man_mcgillicuddy t1_j3h37rn wrote

The smartest thing I've ever heard a person say is 'I don't have enough information on this subject to have a valid opinion'. That's tough for a lot of people to admit, and it's tougher in a post-truth world to base actions on it. But the simple fact of the matter is, you're probably not an expert in this field, other people are, and unless you've got hard evidence of the global conspiracy to distribute gay 5G wifi DNA in the vaccine, you should probably roll with the odds.

OTOH, people go to casinos, so assuming people understand odds is prolly a stretch.

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rebelolemiss t1_j3h813z wrote

Agree in the broad strokes, but you have to make some decisions for yourself based on the time you can commit and the evidence available. It’s OK to have an opinion as long as it’s able to be backed up. You can’t be an expert in everything but is what the anti-science crowd expects.

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postorm t1_j3hx2x0 wrote

Industry in shot themselves in the foot by having men in white coats claiming to be scientists spouting whatever suited corporate profits as science. The tobacco industry was the most obvious offender, but they are not the only one. Then they bribed regulators and interfered with science research and publications, bought politicians and funded pseudoscience. They screwed their long term ability to use science in the interests of short term profits.

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BobDawg3294 t1_j3iftiz wrote

Lying in public by scientists in positions of trust

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MortalGlitter t1_j3fyh8u wrote

When medical messaging is co-opted for political purposes, go figure that people now suspect it. Nor is this the first time it's happened. Once trust has been broken it's not easily repaired and takes a long time.

I can't fathom how much damage has been done to the overall trust that people had of the sciences in general by the horrifically botched messaging during the pandemic.

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