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BabySinister t1_j6gzc7p wrote

Recently in the whole second amendment debate it has been suggested quite frequently that the high murder rate of the USA is mostly due to mental illness and not so much due to lots of guns being available to the public.


Bruno_Vieira t1_j6gzpe3 wrote

Idk if it is the guns, but humans kill other humans. They have been doing it since the beginning of time. The US has weird stats for developed nations in general, definitely not just mental illness. So in ur opinion that narrative has indeed affected the general population perception of crime? Like people seem to think it is tied to mental illness often? I would say it is likely tied to income inequality and social problems, but I am no specialist though.


ConfusedAllDaTime t1_j6i5hlr wrote

Income inequality and social problems in the community are HUGE risk factors for developing a mental illness


TopRevenue2 t1_j6jybwy wrote

Few haves, lots of have nots + lots of guns. WCGW


RainMH11 t1_j6hvoui wrote

Not crime in general but it's how people specifically like to explain mass shootings.


youcancallmeBilly t1_j6hxxc8 wrote

Mass shootings account for only 1% of gun violence in the US.

So even if 'mental illness' is to blame for that 1% of gun violence in America, ammosexuals are just as apathetic about the other 99% of gun violence while they actively support policies that literally reduce the quality of, and access to healthcare in the US.


bobtheplanet t1_j6i83fa wrote

Ah yes, name-calling is part of a rigorous scientific methodology!


youcancallmeBilly t1_j6ibqfq wrote

I’m specifically talking about people who actively refuse changing a document that has already been changed more than two dozen times and is more than two centuries old.

People who specifically refuse to compromise in the leading cause of death of children in this country.

Is there a different moniker you would prefer?


TopRevenue2 t1_j6jyxuq wrote

A graph of the trend in gun deaths before and after the Heller decision would be interesting


bobtheplanet t1_j6ikd4l wrote

Don't try to deflect... that's not what you said. Name-calling is the primary weapon of bigots!


youcancallmeBilly t1_j6itnu1 wrote

I’m not deflecting at all.

I’m explaining why I used the term ‘ammosexual’ to describe someone is so unreasonable about the right to bear arms, that they think the leading cause of children’s deaths in America is an acceptable price to pay for the unfettered access to guns…

…on a comment about gun violence in America…

…on a post about the surprising level of heterogeneity in psychopathy of among condemned capital murders.

And I am also pointing out that you’re not nearly outraged over the facts of gun violence as you are outraged over the slang ‘ammosexual’.


bobtheplanet t1_j6kplh4 wrote

Bigot:a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.


youcancallmeBilly t1_j6ld27y wrote

Straw Man

A straw man argument attacks a different subject rather than the topic being discussed — often a more extreme version of the counter argument. The purpose of this misdirection is to make one's position look stronger than it actually is.


bobtheplanet t1_j6mnc6u wrote

Like refering to your personal hatred for firearms when the discussion is about psychopathy among prisoners.


youcancallmeBilly t1_j6n324t wrote

Come on. You’re better than this.

I went into detail explaining my positions on uncompromising gun zealots and the refusal to restrain access to firearms, but you know I didn’t say anything about ‘hating guns’

I own guns and I’m an avid sport/recreational shooter and your arguments are literally what I’m talking about.


bobtheplanet t1_j6n6acy wrote

Go back and read what you wrote and quit referring to people or groups with insults, you'll get along better in the world.


BabySinister t1_j6h05a1 wrote

I don't know what might cause it, I'm just pointing out that it has been mentioned quite a lot that mental illness might be the driving factor, hence the usefulness of this research.


DTFH_ t1_j6io3ji wrote

And a large body of research counters that premise given the number of those mentally ill who never murder or shoot others which is most mentally ill people. For example if you analyzed the 'Community Mental Health Support' Waiver or your states equivalent from the federally funded Home and Community Based Services program through CMS, you would presume to see more shootings or violent acts from individuals on that waiver given its requirements but that is not something that is observed given you would have a solid control group.


Bruno_Vieira t1_j6h09lv wrote

Hmm nice. Thanks for explaining it, I didn’t know of this new wave of explanation for crimes.


terran1212 t1_j6j63bw wrote

There are elevated risks of violence associated with some categories of mental illnesses but they can’t be lumped together.


chesterbennediction t1_j6igitm wrote

It's part mental illness, partly environment. Basically people are more isolated now than ever before so they have less people to regulate their own behavior and so they become more extreme untill something happens. You are a product of your environment.


BabySinister t1_j6iirs4 wrote

I don't have enough expertise to judge why the USA has such a high murder rate, i assume it's a bunch of factors. I'm sure environment plays a role, and ease of acquiring weapons that make killing relatively easy is also likely a part of it.


manocheese t1_j6i13a4 wrote

That's easily answered by looking to see if the US has rates of mental illness above other countries that at least correlate with the increased murder rate. They don't. Also, mental illness rarely causes violence. It's gun and the gun culture that make the US different.


BabySinister t1_j6i2s1d wrote

Considering the mental health argument mostly comes from the NRA or NRA affiliated politicians I'm pretty sure why this argument is made. Still, its good to actually measure these things so that hopefully we can have a debate based on data. That is as long as we don't dismiss scientific data when it doesn't align with our opinion.


chesterbennediction t1_j6ihlj5 wrote

Where's the data on that? People in the US are among the most unhealthy in the world, have some of the highest rates of anti anxiety, adderall and opioid prescriptions and very little community structure compared to European cultures. It's a breeding ground for extremism.


AdSpecialist4523 t1_j6im9g2 wrote

This would seem to make a good bit of sense to anyone who doesn't think murder was invented in Western Europe in the 14th century. It's not like all the guns magically popped into existence in the last 20 years. Something else must necessarily be happening.


Bruno_Vieira t1_j6j7rvr wrote

Nope. That shows a misunderstanding of history… Humans are fucked up. They will kill others for the smallest of reasons. They will genocide others in the flick of an eye if left to their own devices. A teen would murder you as a rite of passage without even thinking about it if that is what his culture tells him to do. Respect for human lives in the level we have now is definitely a modern accomplishment.


AdSpecialist4523 t1_j6j8ke3 wrote

I'm confused as to how anything you said disagrees with what I said. I think you may have misunderstood me. I'm saying that murder was not invented in 14th century Western Europe, which is obvious. And the troubles that the USA, in particular, has been facing are new. Therefore, the weapons that have been widely available for 600-700 years are likely not to blame and there is a deeper societal issue at play. I don't know why more and more kids are deciding to just start shooting people, but I do know that it isn't the gun's fault.


Bruno_Vieira t1_j6j8zwu wrote

It seemed like you were arguing for the prevalence of mental illness in humans that kill other humans. I was trying to point out that a regular human killing other humans is not as alien as modern society would have u thinking it is. Maybe I have failed to understand ur comment.


AdSpecialist4523 t1_j6jaj9e wrote

Well I'm not ready to completely discount mental illness, but I am definitely saying that people killing each other is not a new phenomenon and has been going on for at least as long as our species has been writing things down. If it weren't guns, it would be swords. If not swords, sharp rocks. If not rocks, sticks. We will always find a way to kill each other because we have always been killing each other.