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DeepHistory t1_j4gtyg8 wrote

It's almost as if packing thousands of animals together in cages barely bigger than their bodies allows diseases to spread more easily.


Unethical_Orange OP t1_j4gbtt7 wrote

For whatever reason my comments in this very post aren't showing up after 50 minutes. I'll try to share some of the information without the sources and source it in this other post.

Recent reports suggest that the largest global bird flu outbreak in history continues into 2023. A timely announcement by the WHO described a 56% fatality rate on humans infected by the H5N1 virus. According to the FAO, we bred 119 billion chickens last year alone.

This study, titled: Alarming situation of emerging H5 and H7 avian influenza and effective control strategies, also explains the origin of the viruses causing the current pandemic. But there is an even more interesting point.

An excerpt from this study in question:

>Epidemiology studies have shown that humans become infected mainly through exposure to virus-infected poultry or a contaminated environment ; human-to-human transmission has been very limited. Therefore, before the H5 and H7 viruses acquire the ability to transmit from human to human, control of these viruses in animals is essential and effective to prevent them from infecting humans.

Here is more information, sourced. By u/Plant__Eater:

Perhaps the biggest risk of disease concerning livestock and poultry is influenza A - the only influenza virus known to cause pandemics.[9] It is hypothesized that every influenza virus that causes pandemics in humans is derived from avian influenza in aquatic birds.[10] Normally this wouldn't be an issue for us. The infected wild birds usually don't get sick, and the virus doesn't easily spread amongst humans.[11] But industrialized animal agriculture has changed that. One scientific review writes:

>Hosts such as swine and gallinaceous poultry that are favorable for transmission and efficient replication of both zoonotic and human viruses can serve as mixing vessels and pose the greatest risk for the development of novel reassortments that can replicate competently in humans.[12]

In other words, livestock and poultry are great at making it easier for viruses to spread amongst humans. As to why this is, one author explains:

>...virtually every effort to further industrialize broiler [chicken] biology has resulted in the emergence of new risks and vulnerabilities. Intensive confinement combined with increased genetic uniformity has created new opportunities for the spread of pathogens. Increased breast-meat yield has come at the expense of increased immunodeficiency.[13]

It is likely that animal agriculture enabled the 1957 Asian Flu, 1968 Hong Kong Flu,[14] bird flu,[15] and the 2009 swine flu.[16] Of these, bird flu is the cause for most concern. In past outbreaks, the case-fatality (CF) rate was 60 percent, although one study suggests that if it became a larger pandemic, it would have a median CF rate of approximately 23.5 percent.[17] It is thought that the 1918 Spanish Flu may have infected one-third of the global population and had a CF rate of 2.5 percent.[18] If bird flu were to mutate in such a way that it was anywhere near as contagious as Spanish Flu, with a CF rate almost 10 times higher than Spanish Flu, the results would be apocalyptic. As two authors wrote in a WHO publication:

>We can't scare people enough about H5N1 [bird flu].[19]


Throwawaysack2 t1_j4giyjf wrote

Yet people ask everyday why eggs are so expensive.


Lexical3 t1_j4iis5s wrote

the egg thing is mostly price gouging. egg producers made record profits despite avian influenza, which is not something that happens when they experience any kind of real shortage. They just know from covid-19 that you can use a pandemic as an excuse to jack up prices, and apparently it doesn't even have to be a human one.


DanYHKim t1_j4l4sl1 wrote

I read a NY Times article years ago about the threat of avian flu to humans. There was a researcher at the CDC who was going to China to investigate some human deaths.

Before he left, he instructed his wife to keep abreast of the news. If he died in China, or if the news showed that the virus had made the leap to humans, she was to go to their vacation home in the mountains and stay there. She was to bring guns and ammunition and not let anyone approach the property.

Then he flew to Shanghai.

Such was his apprehension about the virus, and also his commitment to protecting public health


scrofulous_wolf t1_j4hyw8f wrote

I question practice of exterminating entire populations of agricultural poultry where Avian Influenza is detected instead of saving birds that survive through their own natural immunity and ultimately producing immune poultry populations.


frodo2you t1_j4ifnyf wrote

I am no epidemiologist but that might just create hosts for the virus to mutate. Typhoid Mary had immunity but she made a lot of other people sick.


scrofulous_wolf t1_j4inbrp wrote

Hundreds millions of years evolution and we don’t trust it, anymore?


entropy512 t1_j4ktb3y wrote

>gallinaceous poultry

I had never seen this term before and looked it up:

Last summer my family visited a puffin breeding ground - we were warned not to go near or feed any of the birds, and especially not go near any dead ones due to the avian flu. Puffins weren't the only bird species that hung out there.

There were bodies of a variety of bird species strewn along the shore below the rocks, and you could smell the stench of the rotting carcasses. Strangely, it didn't seem like the puffins were affected - could this have been due to them being from a different part of the evolutionary tree?

Either way - I've seen people say that this whole avian flu thing is a hoax, but I've seen and smelled the results out in the wild.

Edit: indicates that the puffins appearing to be OK may have been an illusion.


lokicramer t1_j4gu4cl wrote

Screw the eggs.

Definitely don't need a flu with a nearly 50% mortality rate to become a pandemic.


SpectralHam13 t1_j4hz6ui wrote

Greater production at the expense of tight living spaces for our livestock and poultry, reduced genetic diversity, and increased immunodeficiency = more virulent and deadly zoonotic pathogens. Got it. Thanks, capitalism.


CopperBranch72 t1_j4hi026 wrote

Can we finally admit animal agriculture is awful? Stop supporting this awful practice. Go vegan!


KahuTheKiwi t1_j4i83hh wrote

Go organic not vegan.

I used to be a horticulturalist (mostly pip fruit and some vege).

One of my jobs was to monitor for life forms and devise a way to kill them with herbicides, fungicides, nemocides, insecticide, firearms(mammals and birds), etc. Firearms excepted basically oil products.

Another was to plan and apply artificial fertiliser - oil products basically.

We drove tractors (oil fueled) that compact the soil.

Last I read UN say that 60% of arable land is degraded.

We need the right number of animals to support organic horticultural. Not to replace unsustainable agriculture with unsustainable horticulture.


Sadmiral8 t1_j4kild6 wrote

Veganic farming is also a thing. But saying "go organic not vegan" is such a wrong statement. Like going organic is actually better in preventing pandemics and environmental issues, or that people shouldn't go vegan at all.

Of course if you'd like to present any credible studies on that claim I'd be interested to see them, if you actually think that's the case of course.


Gl_drink_0117 t1_j4lccmb wrote

I am born and brought up to be vegan. However, with mainly carbs being major part of most of vegan diets, things start getting messed up much sooner in the body. This is from lot of research online over past 4 years. Some research online exists


Sadmiral8 t1_j4lcxr1 wrote

Sure, care to reference some of that research? Since most research seems to show the opposite on plant-based diets.


Gl_drink_0117 t1_j4lj8fs wrote

For starters look up Dr berg and Dr Ekberg on YouTube. Tons of issues related to carbs. Some veggies have phytates, lectins and so on. Need to careful there as well. Lot of my family members issues started reducing once we started carbs. Triglycerides came in normal range, so is glucose, and VLDL


KahuTheKiwi t1_j4lvqcq wrote

You are making the assertion that veganic farming exists. You prove your assertion, don't lazily expect me to do your homework.

Show where and how veganic methods deal with fertility cycling, pest control, etc.

Have the confidence to prove your unsubstantiated assertion.


Sadmiral8 t1_j4lxnfl wrote

Will do that once you drop the laziness of not backing up your claims with studies.


KahuTheKiwi t1_j4mw0bl wrote

My presented evidence is 4 comments up.

Your evidence is missing, presumed non-existent.

I will say in my foal and informal training I have never heard of it but accept I do not know everything.

If you have sources stop being half-arsed and present it.


Sadmiral8 t1_j4mwyll wrote

Not on this post it isn't. I haven't even made any claims that I'd need to back up, just pointed out that veganic farming (which is organic farming without the use of animals) is also an option, if non-organic food production is an issue.

You did not give any references to eating organic being better than going vegan for the issues we discussed about, and you are still avoiding doing so. You made the claim, so provide the evidence. Unless you can't.


CopperBranch72 t1_j4j39m9 wrote

Yes pesticides and such are also a problem. I buy organic whenever I can. But that in no way justifies slaughtering animals.


jeremyshelton t1_j4j9cli wrote

They’re tasty.


entropy512 t1_j4kttv4 wrote

Also, the structures of our teeth make it clear that we are meant to eat meat.


CopperBranch72 t1_j4w2gg2 wrote

Yes, our large molars and the fact our jaws move around in a circular motion to grind just like cows... hold on a second...


KahuTheKiwi t1_j4js175 wrote

To farm organically we have to replicate natural systems of plant and animal interaction.


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