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Surur t1_j95kco1 wrote

We don't have conscious machines simply because we are not trying to make one, not because it requires some divine spark

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Representative_Pop_8 t1_j95q67u wrote

i doubt any company wants to create a conscious machine right now, since as seen by Bing the moment some people right or wrong assign it sentience is the moment you start getting discussions about regulating " rights " for AI systems , that is not good for something you wish to use as a usefully tool.

we couldnt really don't know what causes consciousness either so we wouldn't know how to make a conscious machine and be sure it is conscious if we wanted to, other than recreating a human brain molecule by molecule.

Now consciousness could well be something that can be made with a machine of different construction than a human brain, but we've don't know the method that does that. Due to this lack of knowledge , even though unlikely, we can't even truly completely rule out that a thing like chatGPT could be sentient( but I don't think it is)

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Surur t1_j95wpca wrote

I would argue a Tesla in FSD mode is conscious, as it has an awareness of itself, it's surroundings and responds to it mostly appropriately.

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Representative_Pop_8 t1_j967lff wrote

But that is not what consciousness is. consciousness is not about responding to surroundings , a toilet knows when it is full of water but that doesn't make it conscious.

Consciousness is being able to subjectively feel things in its inside, like we do, the difference between being awake vs when asleep and we dont feel anything.

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Surur t1_j96y9q7 wrote

That is actually not the definition.

conscious

noun 1. the state of being aware of and responsive to one's surroundings. "she failed to regain consciousness and died two days later"

a person's awareness or perception of something. "her acute consciousness of Luke's presence"

Now you can add all kinds of mumbo jumbo magic but that's not the definition.

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Representative_Pop_8 t1_j9a2r04 wrote

you are not even understanding the definitions right. consciousness, as we are discussing here and generally understood implies an internal state of awareness or wakefulness, not just responding to inputs. its not mumbo jumbo and if you still don't know what consciousness is then you might be a philosophical zombie.

"the quality or state of being aware especially of something within oneself"

"the state of being characterized by sensation, emotion, volition, and thought : MIND"

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Surur t1_j9a68t0 wrote

And what makes you think AI can't be self referential?

When a Tesla plans and executes on a route, are they not referring to their own present, past and future state?

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Representative_Pop_8 t1_j9a915t wrote

it's not about being self referential, it is the subjective experience, the difference between what you Feel when awake vs when asleep (not dreaming) . The body is still making calculations like the tesla when asleep it regulates breathing and heartbeats, measures water and nutrients, it can wake you up if there is is a loud sound or if you really need to drink or go to the bathroom. The Tesla could be doing all those calculations without being awake.

even we when awake we do a huge part of our thought processing unconsciously. You are not aware of the thousands of cones in your eyes nor in the individual strength of the light each cone detects depending on light frequency, you just see the summary created by your unconscious brain, it unconsciously processed all the information and you just ( consciously) see an array of pixels classified in a totally arbitrary classification of "colors"

I am not saying that an AI, even a tesla can't possibly ever be sentient, just that it is not enough to have what you mentioned in your post on top.

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Surur t1_j9ac97m wrote

Who said anything about sentient? Do you think animals are conscious? If so, there is a point when computers are also conscious.

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Representative_Pop_8 t1_j9acqb1 wrote

consciousness is having sentience at that instant, There are other uses of the word ofcourse like the moral consciousness , but that is not what everyone here is talking about. When people use consciousness / sentient in regards to AI they are pretty much using as synonims. Sentient is much more specific , while consciousness does indeed have other meanings not neceserily implying sentience. But even the first defintion you provided implies sentience. like mentioned before the difference between being awake vs not is being sentient or not, you dont feel anything when asleep you do when awake

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Surur t1_j9aj4ck wrote

This is exactly the mambo jambo I was talking about that people invent to separate themselves machines and animals.

The simple fact is that at its most basic, consciousness means being able to perceive and respond to external stimuli.

It's merely because of all the nonsense you add that you can claim supremacy over a simple car.

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Representative_Pop_8 t1_j9am232 wrote

>The simple fact is that at its most basic, consciousness means being able to perceive and respond to external stimuli.

if you mean perceive as consciously perceive then yes, you needed subjective experience to have consciousness. It is not just responding to external stimuli.

consciousness is having sentience and subjective experience in general.
a toilet can respond to external stimulus, remove water when you press the lever and add water until it senses it is full, I am pretty confident it is not conscious.

>It's merely because of all the nonsense you add that you can claim supremacy over a simple car.

what part is nonsense? all I said is the basic understanding of consciousness from everyday experience, medical definitions, and philosophical ones too.

I am also not saying a car can't have consciousness, it is just you seem to not know what consciousness is, and mix the concept with some mechanical response to inputs.

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Surur t1_j9aqnvt wrote

> a toilet can respond to external stimulus, remove water when you press the lever and add water until it senses it is full, I am pretty confident it is not conscious.

It i conscious of whether you pressed the lever or not.

You seem to be missing the point which is that there is a spectrum of consciousness, and the richer it is, the more conscious the being is.

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