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Representative_Pop_8 t1_j9a2r04 wrote

Reply to comment by Surur in Stop ascribing personhood to complex calculators like Bing/Sydney/ChatGPT by [deleted]

you are not even understanding the definitions right. consciousness, as we are discussing here and generally understood implies an internal state of awareness or wakefulness, not just responding to inputs. its not mumbo jumbo and if you still don't know what consciousness is then you might be a philosophical zombie.

"the quality or state of being aware especially of something within oneself"

"the state of being characterized by sensation, emotion, volition, and thought : MIND"

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Surur t1_j9a68t0 wrote

And what makes you think AI can't be self referential?

When a Tesla plans and executes on a route, are they not referring to their own present, past and future state?

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Representative_Pop_8 t1_j9a915t wrote

it's not about being self referential, it is the subjective experience, the difference between what you Feel when awake vs when asleep (not dreaming) . The body is still making calculations like the tesla when asleep it regulates breathing and heartbeats, measures water and nutrients, it can wake you up if there is is a loud sound or if you really need to drink or go to the bathroom. The Tesla could be doing all those calculations without being awake.

even we when awake we do a huge part of our thought processing unconsciously. You are not aware of the thousands of cones in your eyes nor in the individual strength of the light each cone detects depending on light frequency, you just see the summary created by your unconscious brain, it unconsciously processed all the information and you just ( consciously) see an array of pixels classified in a totally arbitrary classification of "colors"

I am not saying that an AI, even a tesla can't possibly ever be sentient, just that it is not enough to have what you mentioned in your post on top.

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Surur t1_j9ac97m wrote

Who said anything about sentient? Do you think animals are conscious? If so, there is a point when computers are also conscious.

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Representative_Pop_8 t1_j9acqb1 wrote

consciousness is having sentience at that instant, There are other uses of the word ofcourse like the moral consciousness , but that is not what everyone here is talking about. When people use consciousness / sentient in regards to AI they are pretty much using as synonims. Sentient is much more specific , while consciousness does indeed have other meanings not neceserily implying sentience. But even the first defintion you provided implies sentience. like mentioned before the difference between being awake vs not is being sentient or not, you dont feel anything when asleep you do when awake

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Surur t1_j9aj4ck wrote

This is exactly the mambo jambo I was talking about that people invent to separate themselves machines and animals.

The simple fact is that at its most basic, consciousness means being able to perceive and respond to external stimuli.

It's merely because of all the nonsense you add that you can claim supremacy over a simple car.

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Representative_Pop_8 t1_j9am232 wrote

>The simple fact is that at its most basic, consciousness means being able to perceive and respond to external stimuli.

if you mean perceive as consciously perceive then yes, you needed subjective experience to have consciousness. It is not just responding to external stimuli.

consciousness is having sentience and subjective experience in general.
a toilet can respond to external stimulus, remove water when you press the lever and add water until it senses it is full, I am pretty confident it is not conscious.

>It's merely because of all the nonsense you add that you can claim supremacy over a simple car.

what part is nonsense? all I said is the basic understanding of consciousness from everyday experience, medical definitions, and philosophical ones too.

I am also not saying a car can't have consciousness, it is just you seem to not know what consciousness is, and mix the concept with some mechanical response to inputs.

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Surur t1_j9aqnvt wrote

> a toilet can respond to external stimulus, remove water when you press the lever and add water until it senses it is full, I am pretty confident it is not conscious.

It i conscious of whether you pressed the lever or not.

You seem to be missing the point which is that there is a spectrum of consciousness, and the richer it is, the more conscious the being is.

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