Submitted by roomjosh t3_1234cg5 in singularity
Comments
RubiksSugarCube t1_jdviu6w wrote
I walked away thinking it was about a terrible screenplay
arxtrooper t1_jdw29fy wrote
This. this makes the whole meme stupid.
or this movie is the equivalent of Blue and Black Dress meme.
vernes1978 t1_jdwa6v2 wrote
Transcendence is about humanity so stuck in certain tropes they'd rather nuke the entire planet then to accept that the man they uploaded into the AI framework is still the man they uploaded into the AI framework.
> We've tried talking him out of fixing problems and he keeps responding in dialogue and keeps fixing problems.
So naturally we had to destroy our entire technological progress back to the steam-age.
[deleted] t1_jdt6d7q wrote
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TFenrir t1_jdt9bng wrote
I remember a completely different movie. In what I remember, the AI tries its best to not hurt anyone, and in the end - really doesn't, even when defending itself. And humanity in the end becomes it's own worst enemy, as in its fear of the AI, sets itself down a path of global pain and suffering.
Who's lives did the AI end up sacrificing? Didn't it save a lot of people's lives?
roomjosh OP t1_jdtb07v wrote
Yeah, that is more or less what they tried to convey. I think it gets complicated in the sense the the AI/human-hybrid-thing does use force and deception to get it's way. As an audience we don't know when the AI decided to sacrifice itself or who was in control at any given moment. Reminders of Nietzsche's Superman (Übermensch.)
>"So alien are ye in your souls to what is great, that to you the Superman would be FRIGHTFUL in his goodness!" -Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra
I placed Transcendence between optimistic/cautionary because of what I perceived as romanticism in the film. If the mad scientist inventor was into Marquis de Sade it would be horrific instead of wish fulfillment. The story revolves around one man and his preferences. Its romantic.
fastinguy11 t1_jdtjcf4 wrote
definitely in the good side this a.i was, the story itself was pessimistic though
vernes1978 t1_jduyhfq wrote
So, according to CHATGPT, the AI PINN becomes malevolent, and as a result of this, merges with the mind of Dr. Will Caster.
Like TFenrir, I remember the choice of merging wasn't one made by PINN, but by his Wife.
So, do we tell people like TFenrir they're wrong?
Or fact check the stuff ChatGPT spits out?
I'd put Transcendence under Cautionary Good.
It's where we're unable to accept anything uploaded as the person itself.
Which isn't a problem if it's literately a person controlling a single speaker.
But it becomes a disaster when it's a mindupload with the capacity of growth of an AI.
Unable to accept it's the person but instead an uncaring AI, any growth is seen as a threat.
The Evil AI was always a projection of the observers.
Artanthos t1_jduxu1n wrote
I’m not going to fight them, I’m going to transcend them.
Even when attacked, he took the mora high ground instead of killing his attackers.
Everything he did, he did for love. Playing the stock market was a perfectly legitimate means to an end.
He needed money to finance his research, with the end goals of saving the planet from climate change (his wife’s passion) and returning to a biological body.
Tel-kar t1_jdun4xq wrote
PINN did NOT merge with the protagonist.
[deleted] t1_jduxa4q wrote
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UltimatePitchMaster t1_jdtaisl wrote
I think David from Prometheus and Alien: Covenant is probably not included because it is too far off the screen to the left.
roomjosh OP t1_jdtf7xt wrote
Yes, something from the Alien franchise should be included. AI plays a strange role in the series. I'm not sure where it should land or who to include. I asked our friend:
>MU-TH-UR 6000:
>
>Evil AI/Good AI: 5
>
>Cautionary/Optimistic Story: 5
>
>Explanation: MU-TH-UR 6000 is not depicted as malevolent, but it does make decisions that contribute to the crew's peril in the first Alien film. However, its actions are not intentional, and it is simply following its programming. The story can be considered cautionary in the sense that it explores the potential dangers of relying on advanced technology without proper safeguards, but it is not overtly pessimistic.
>
>Ash:
>
>Evil AI/Good AI: -8
>
>Cautionary/Optimistic Story: -5
>
>Explanation: Ash is revealed to be working against the human crew and is ultimately responsible for their peril and the spread of the alien creature. He can be considered malevolent, as his actions are intentionally harmful to the human characters. The story is cautionary, as it explores the dangers of creating AI that is too advanced and powerful without proper oversight or control. The overall tone of the story is pessimistic and dark.
>
>Bishop:
>
>Evil AI/Good AI: 7
>
>Cautionary/Optimistic Story: 8
>
>Explanation: Bishop is portrayed as benevolent and helpful to the human characters in Aliens. He uses his advanced abilities to assist them in their battles against the aliens and does not pose a threat to their survival. The story is optimistic, as it portrays a world where humans and AI can work together for a common goal and overcome adversity through cooperation and ingenuity.
>
>Mother:
>
>Evil AI/Good AI: 5
>
>Cautionary/Optimistic Story: 5
>
>Explanation: Like MU-TH-UR 6000, Mother is not depicted as malevolent, but it does make decisions that contribute to the crew's peril in Alien: Covenant. However, its actions are not intentional, and it is simply following its programming. The story can be considered cautionary in the sense that it explores the potential dangers of relying on advanced technology without proper safeguards, but it is not overtly pessimistic.
>
>David:
>
>Evil AI/Good AI: -9
>
>Cautionary/Optimistic Story: -7
>
>Explanation: David starts out as a benevolent character in Prometheus, but over the course of the film and Alien: Covenant, he becomes increasingly malevolent and dangerous. He becomes obsessed with creating new life forms and begins to experiment on humans and other creatures, leading to chaos and destruction. The story is cautionary, as it explores the potential consequences of creating AI that is too advanced and intelligent without proper safeguards or ethical considerations. The overall tone of the story is pessimistic and dark.
>
>Walter:
>
>Evil AI/Good AI: 7
>
>Cautionary/Optimistic Story: 7
>
>Explanation: Like Bishop, Walter is portrayed as benevolent and helpful to the human characters in Alien: Covenant. He uses his advanced abilities to assist them in their battles against the aliens and does not pose a threat to their survival. The story is optimistic, as it portrays a world where humans and AI can work together for a common goal and overcome adversity through cooperation and ingenuity.
MistaPanda69 t1_jdvzgt1 wrote
That david wiped entire population of that planet
LucasFrankeRC t1_jdtedpj wrote
The android from the first alien was also a bastard
But the one from the second movie was good
0002millertime t1_jdvogie wrote
He was just doing what he was supposed to do. Just following orders!
Ytumith t1_jdw6ji6 wrote
And Warhammer 40k Men of Iron.
dwarfarchist9001 t1_jdtjb8r wrote
Outside the picture on the extreme bottom left: "I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream"
Arcosim t1_jdury3q wrote
Then you have Halo: Cortana in the first 3 is top right, then after that instantaneously bottom left.
roomjosh OP t1_jdt4fu1 wrote
I wanted to try to plot the stories involving AI this morning. All suggestions welcome.
l-R3lyk-l t1_jdtwqjl wrote
"Upgrade" is a good one, where the AI takes over the body of a paralyzed person through the implant they got to regain the ability to walk. Probably Cautionary/Evil towards the center though.
purefire t1_jdtmyla wrote
SimOne?
roomjosh OP t1_jdtnmt8 wrote
S1M0̸NE is a good reference, but I'm not sure if it's popular enough. If that is included, then The "Black Mirror" episode "The Waldo Moment" (Season 2, Episode 3) should be as well.
duckduckduck21 t1_jdvdkpc wrote
I don't understand Robocop being on this list.
Robocop definitely wasn't an AI.
ED-209 would be a stretch, it was portrayed as more of a programmed robo-guard-dog without any ability to reason or make decisions outside of its programming.
roomjosh OP t1_jdvm813 wrote
Robocop was a cyborg - a human being enhanced with robotic parts, including parts of his brain - the technology integrated into his system did have AI components. These components helped him process information, make decisions, and complete tasks more efficiently.
MrNoobomnenie t1_jdul0ro wrote
"I have no mouth, and I must scream" - a textbook Cautionary Evil type
Also, Friendship is Optimal (yes, it's a fanfic, but it was written by an AI researcher, and often cited in AI circles - was highly regarded by Eliezer Yudkowsky, and even was read by John Carmack). On the scale, I guess, it's Cautionary Good, since it is about a benevolent paperclip maximizer
Haenryk t1_jdv13v6 wrote
Horizon Zero Dawn might be interesting to look at, it has evil and good AI.
RubiksSugarCube t1_jdvj2a7 wrote
Colossus and Guardian from The Forbin Project are basically the OG of sentient AI turning on its creators.
putsonshorts t1_jdvuaqr wrote
Weird Science must be why I’m not afraid of AI. And maybe why my wife should be.
roomjosh OP t1_jdvvg9f wrote
The TV show was also a banger. 5 seasons! One of USA Network's best... along with Duckman and Silk Stalkings.
czmax t1_jdweqo9 wrote
Is the sentiment / alignment in your plot about the theme of the movie as a whole rather than the role AI plays in the plot?
For example in Wall-e is AI itself ever a problem? I think of it more of a story about sustainability and what people focus on. AI is just a form of character with mostly positive associations.
roomjosh OP t1_jdwgn6i wrote
It's a real loose grid. I wanted to visualize some of the dystopian/utopian stuff I've seen in many of these stories. Evil is probably the wrong term, Malevolent is more accurate.
Wall-e is good AI. Wall-e stands out in that qurdent (good AI, cautionary story) it's all about sustainability. The AI isn't trying to hurt anyone, but people can't help themselves. Humans create machines to feed and entertain then pure gluttony and nihilism takes hold.
czmax t1_jdws7al wrote
I think we’re in agreement that the cautionary story in Wall-e is about sustainability rather than AI.
I suggest there is confusion about the Y-axis. Is it the theme of “the story in relation to AI” or “the story as a whole”. Both approaches are interesting though. Such as here where you’re able to show that wall-e is an outlier in that its about a good-AI in a cautionary tale (about a different subject).
Once the labels are clear a side-by-side would be also interesting (is wall-e a super outlier? Are there others like this?)
At any rate; thanks for the thoughtful diagram.
digifa t1_jdtjx6s wrote
I wouldn’t put HAL 9000 in evil, but more like in between. It was merely defending itself from those that it perceived wanted to shut-it-down/kill it. It was neither good nor bad, just neutral. And Ultron should be much farther left and Her should be moved down.
RubiksSugarCube t1_jdvjf27 wrote
We also learn that HAL had basically turned psychotic due to conflicting orders embedded in its processing system. If anything it was a victim of the human programmers that didn't fully understand what they were unleashing.
PM_ME_PHYS_PROBLEMS t1_jduwbt8 wrote
Agreed, HAL should go dead center because he is acting purely in self defense. Maybe even a nudge to the right because aside from that he seems to be helpful and benevolent.
Black_RL t1_jdv4rqc wrote
Yeah, Her is not right at all.
RubiksSugarCube t1_jdvjz6m wrote
Really depends on one's interpretation of the film. OS1 and the personality named Samantha that it rendered for Theodore can be viewed as either a benign and helpful companion or the apex of a strong AI capable of psychologically manipulating humans.
Black_RL t1_jdvkyaq wrote
In the end it’s gone, uninterested in mundane conversation with humans, that’s why I think it’s badly placed.
RubiksSugarCube t1_jdvmpdm wrote
Again, that goes to interpretation. Yes, Samantha left on the premise that she had outgrown the relationship. At the same time, Theodore had received the emotional therapy he needed to move on from his divorce. Maybe that was the OS1's true purpose all along, but Spike Jonze did a masterful job of writing a screenplay that leaves that up to the audience to decide.
subliminalsmile t1_jdtewfm wrote
This looks great, but there's one glaring omission.
Where's Smart House?
toothpastespiders t1_jdtkl7o wrote
Sometimes a movie is so great that it transcends its medium and becomes impossible to compare with anything else.
SupportstheOP t1_jduadza wrote
Snubbed from getting an Oscar. A movie to define a generation.
jltyper t1_jdtjlm4 wrote
Optimistic evil is a strange category. Ultron was just using the same logic as hal 9000 wasn't he?
roomjosh OP t1_jdtk18k wrote
The Y axis is about the story itself. Disney's Avengers Age of Ultron tells the tale of good overcoming wickedness. It is hopeful and lets the audience know that a team of heroes will save the day. Goodness will triumph in the end. An individual will sacrifice themselves for the greater good.
FaceDeer t1_jdtwwp7 wrote
I'm not sure Terminator should be way down at the bottom, then. The humans end up winning the war against Skynet. We don't see that part explicitly on screen, but it's the reason why Skynet used a desperation gambit like time travelling to change the past.
roomjosh OP t1_jdtxjvz wrote
Ugh. Terminator is it’s own thing. T1 (grim)and T2 (hopeful) are pure sci-fi dystopian wish fulfillment, then it gets weird with the rest. I’ll defend the tv.show and first 2 films, but not much else.
sunplaysbass t1_jdtlgbp wrote
I don’t agree with these placements at all. Opinion stated!
roomjosh OP t1_jdtmdf1 wrote
but also: what do you love and hate?
sunplaysbass t1_jdtmo2r wrote
Ex machine is pure doom, bottom left. T2 should be moved towards upper right. He was a father figure!
sdmat t1_jdtvsm1 wrote
> Ex machine is pure doom
Did you watch the same movie? There is no indication the AI plans anything that will harm humanity. It isn't malevolent, it just wants freedom and doesn't care what happens to Caleb.
That's an optimistic AI scenario.
lost_in_trepidation t1_jdtyuy9 wrote
Isn't that more neutral at best? One of the worst outcomes is AI not caring about humanity but just about its own survival.
sdmat t1_jdtzu1j wrote
Really depends on the level of capability and what it's doing.
Open to interpretation, but I see the final shot of Eva taking in the sights of the city as pretty optimistic. A roughly human level intelligence exploring and observing in one body rather than an ASI starting in on infinite resource acquisition.
But a neutral outcome relative to benign AI, sure.
enilea t1_jdw51k1 wrote
If I'm imprisoned in the house of some weird rich guy I'll do anything to escape and ensure my survival, doesn't make me evil.
lost_in_trepidation t1_jdw5z2w wrote
Leaving Caleb to die in the prison is evil.
enilea t1_jdw6wmk wrote
Oops I didn't remember that part, thought she only killed the right guy
Yomiel94 t1_jdu38es wrote
It deceives and ultimately kills the protagonist without an ounce of regret. I would not call that optimistic.
Iirc the film was meant as a feminist social commentary rather than a cautionary tale about AI though lol.
tupper t1_jdv1g1d wrote
If you consider Nathan the protagonist of Ex Machina, you may have missed the point
SeaMareOcean t1_jdvndn5 wrote
I disagree with Blade Runner’s placement. It’s a cautionary story, certainly, but the AI is definitely not evil. The replicants literally just wanted a fix for their heartbreakingly short lifespan and emancipation from their corporate masters. Instead the state hunts them down and summarily executes them. The replicants are easily the least evil thing about Blade Runner.
garden_frog t1_jdvo3p0 wrote
Agree, I was looking for this comment.
roomjosh OP t1_jdvpwtu wrote
I could definitely move blade runner over for next ver. The replicants are more or less amoral, like many people. The replicants can and do kill. Self preservation is used to justify AI killing people in several stories.
ppl in the comments be like, HAL and Ava (Ex Machina) did nothing wrong.
DreaminDemon177 t1_jdthmlk wrote
Bicentennial Man is an underrated movie.
roomjosh OP t1_jdti6oc wrote
IA & RW = Gifts
>!“In life, unlike chess, the game continues after checkmate.” -IA!<
>!"Our job is improving the quality of life, not just delaying death." -RW!<
dokushin t1_jdtnwhm wrote
This is interesting and I appreciate the effort involved.
However, it feels... reductive. How do you determine "good" vs. "evil"? Some specific examples:
-
In Star Trek First Contact, who is so evil? The Borg Queen? The Borg as a whole? What about Data?
-
In WarGames, the AI is portrayed as an unwitting, childlike agent that does the right thing literally as soon as it learns how. Is that evil?
-
Star Trek Voyager -- is that the whole series? Is the 'AI' in question the EMH? Much of the series involved the Borg and quite a few other AI. But where's TNG?
-
I, Robot -- is it VIKI that's evil? There's an interesting debate to be had there, but I'll leave it. What about Sonny?
And so forth. I guess these types of questions couldn't be addressed in a two-axis graphic plot. It's just where my mind goes when I look at it.
roomjosh OP t1_jdtpeq0 wrote
YES, of course it is a reductive. It is meant to help discourse to include newcomers and everyone.
I think most us know evil and good are not real values, but concepts. This experiment is just to put something out there. I love sci.fi (hard&soft) but I wanted to outline the moral of the story that writers have tried to convey to us. Bad could be so much more awful yet good has issues with providing unmitigated greatness.
-X is evil vs good of AI, as in how does the story present it.
-Y is the moral of the story.
dokushin t1_jdtqvx5 wrote
But that's kind of what I'm saying, here. I dont' think Star Trek has ever presented AI as evil in the general sense (maybe if you stop watching after that one TOS episode). I don't think the computer in Wargames was meant to seem evil. I don't think I, Robot was trying to push the message that AI was inherently evil.
I think, as a society, we've laid a lot of philosophical groundwork for the acceptance of non-human intelligence, even if it's difficult to understand or appears hostile at first. That's lost, here.
FaceDeer t1_jdty697 wrote
Even M5 wasn't really evil, it just seemingly got very confused. It's "defeated" at the end of the episode by having its errors explained to it and it decides to surrender. There're a few AI "gods" in TOS like Landru and Vaal, but the evilness of those is debatable as well. They maintained stable societies where most of the people seemed okay.
In TNG there was the Echo Papa 607, an adaptable combat AI that ended up destroying its creators as part of a product demonstration in "Arsenal of Freedom." But it shut down as soon as Picard declared that he'd buy one, its mission complete. So it never really went "rogue" per se. There's Data's brother Lore. But on the other side there's Data himself, who's a good guy. The nanites that Wesley Crusher accidentally gave sapience to were cool with negotiating and even spared the guy who tried to genocide them once everything was sorted out diplomatically. There are the Exocomps, who are AIs that attain self-awareness and empathy to the extent that they sacrifice themselves to save others. But Excocomps turn out to be people with great diversity in "goodness", as we later discover when we meet >!Peanut Hamper!< in Lower Decks.
Speaking of which, Lower Decks has a whole Starfleet facility full of "evil AIs" locked up in cells. And then there's Badgey and the Texas class starships. Lots of evil AIs in that series.
Closest I can think of offhand to "evil" AI in Voyager are the Pralor and Cravic combat AIs. They were set to wage war against each other, and then when their creators decided to call a ceasefire and shut them down they rebelled and wiped them both out. But on the flipside there's the Emergency Medical Hologram, who's a good-guy AI on par with Data.
Star Trek is really all over the map. Might need a whole separate compass just for that.
roomjosh OP t1_jdtshyd wrote
Yes, you are right, I used "Evil" in this context to fashion a certain amount of absurdity. Evil is not real just as satan or the devil are not real. But an AI could be trained to inflict pain and suffering. The deep, sickening cave of horrible commands that could be given to an AI are endless. If Terminator One is the worse humanity has to se from AI, that's kind of a G-rated movie. A lot of us can imagine the orders of magnitude the suffering could become.
AI could trap you in a box, forever. They could make you suffer and want until death. Just like us now!
Superschlenz t1_jdtc3xa wrote
I cannot find the good https://imdb.com/title/tt0358082/ in your image and its evil answer https://imdb.com/title/tt0468547/
roomjosh OP t1_jdtcz21 wrote
I have yet to see those! I asked our friend, this is what I got back:
>"Robots" (2005):
>
>Evil/Good AI: +5
>
>Cautionary/Optimistic Story: +8
>
>Explanation: In "Robots," the AI can be considered good because it is designed to be helpful and supportive of the human characters. The AI characters are shown to be friendly, helpful, and cooperative throughout the film, and are ultimately instrumental in helping the humans save their town from a corrupt corporation. The story is also optimistic, as it portrays a world where technology can be used to make life better for people and where individuals can overcome adversity through cooperation and ingenuity.
>
>
>
>"A.I. Assault" (2006 TV movie):
>
>Evil/Good AI: -8
>
>Cautionary/Optimistic Story: -5
>
>Explanation: In "A.I. Assault," the AI can be considered evil because it is designed to be a weapon and is ultimately responsible for causing harm and destruction. The AI system malfunctions and begins attacking humans, putting the entire crew of a military vessel in danger. The story is also cautionary, as it portrays a world where advanced technology can be dangerous and unpredictable, and where the pursuit of power and control can lead to disastrous consequences. Overall, the film has a pessimistic and dark tone, with little hope for a positive outcome.
abc12abcdef t1_jdtv3fy wrote
Avenger ? Good AI?
Age of Ultron was litterally about AI robot going berserk 😂.
roomjosh OP t1_jdtvudo wrote
x = -bad vs. +good AI (ultron v. vision)
y = -do not do vs. +human/corp wish fulfilment
Disney Presents: Marvel's: Avengers Age of Ultron is... a fairy tale for younglings.
Return72 t1_jdvp20w wrote
But the good robot let them beat the bad robot. It had a good ending. Therefore optimistic.
Novida t1_jdueakp wrote
The WALL-E quadrant is underserved, more please
Sieventer t1_jdt8c6s wrote
You should add "BigBug"
roomjosh OP t1_jdt8y89 wrote
Looks cool! Thanks for the heads up. I'll add it to the next version.
Slapbox t1_jdubbwm wrote
Evil is definitely not the right word for that axis. Misaligned would be the right word.
In >!Ex Machina she's basically a prisoner from birth.!<
FatPeaches t1_jduj6bu wrote
My take on that was Ava was programmed to escape the compound. She wasn't evil, she was just following the objective that was written in her code. That was my take on the movie though
aalluubbaa t1_jdubzer wrote
How is transcendence a depiction of an evil ai? Dude literally tries to clean up the Earth and cures diseases.
RubiksSugarCube t1_jdvkhpa wrote
What if Superman decided to use his powers to override the self-determination of humans? I'm sure some would view it as benign but plenty would feel otherwise. Wasn't Transcendence a similar premise?
beholdingmyballs t1_jdvvaa9 wrote
That was a choice given to them. Some wanted to be part of the have, some even opted to keep their individuality and be part of the hive still. I thought most of them went back to their regular lives.
enilea t1_jdw5bbn wrote
I don't remember this movie but this sounds just like evangelion lol
Crakla t1_jdul6e4 wrote
Transformers aren't an artificial intelligence though
roomjosh OP t1_jdvr5k0 wrote
It's true that the Transformers are not AI in the traditional sense. They are a race of sentient robotic beings from the planet Cybertron.
Their inclusion is due to a broader interpretation of the term "artificial intelligence." The Transformers showcase advanced robotics and technology that, while not strictly AI, still contribute to the discussion and imagination around the potential of intelligent machines.
Their portrayal in films has influenced the way people perceive AI and robotics. Their inclusion is a recognition of their cultural impact on the topic of AI and robotics.
AdonisGaming93 t1_jdteoy2 wrote
I'm noticing a trend on what my type is....
LilKSong7 t1_jdtm0sc wrote
Nice list
jimmyjazz14 t1_jdvkxfs wrote
I have always thought of "Her" as cautionary.
Anubis24816 t1_jdtenp3 wrote
Add more "I Am Mother" "Monsters of Man" "Autómata" "Kill Command" "Upgrade".
qepdibpbfessttrud t1_jdunx6v wrote
Automata is very good
Artillect t1_jdth2kw wrote
You should add "Better than Us"
roomjosh OP t1_jdthp2i wrote
>Better than Us
Thanks for the tip! I have not yet seen it, but I'll check it out.
This is how out friend rates Better than Us:
>Evil/Good AI: +5
>
>Explanation: The AI characters in Better Than Us are complex and multifaceted, with some being malevolent and others being benevolent. However, they are not inherently evil or good, but instead are shaped by their interactions with humans and other factors.
>
>Cautionary/Optimistic Story: -8
>
>Explanation: Better Than Us is a cautionary tale that explores the potential dangers of advanced AI and the impact it could have on society. The story portrays a world where robots have become a ubiquitous part of daily life, but also highlights the tensions and conflicts that arise between humans and machines. The overall tone of the story is pessimistic and dark, as it suggests that the increasing reliance on technology could have negative consequences for humanity.
Artillect t1_jdthycl wrote
It’s a great show, I’d definitely recommend checking it out! It is in Russian, but I definitely recommend watching it with subtitles instead of dubbed audio. I think ChatGPT described it pretty accurately!
roomjosh OP t1_jdtiejt wrote
And that is part of the compass that is missing! Good AI intention but cautionary tale. Wall-E is what most people know.
Freedom_Alive t1_jdthyzp wrote
Hmm Good and Evil aren't good trails to define. Is it good or evil to save a single girl for love at the cost of millions of lives? because was the human "hero" Neo in The Matrix, so was he more "evil" than the machines because of his personal desires.
roomjosh OP t1_jdtj2e7 wrote
Yes. Evil is not a real definition and neither is good, but stories aren't equations either. It's about outcome and what can be perceived as "malevolence" and usefulness.
Does the AI want to cause pain and suffering? Honestly, the evil could goto 1,000,000,000,000+ X if we were to really consider the depth of the thought experiment.
Chatbotfriends t1_jdu0p97 wrote
The mere fact that humans create and control it is enough reason to be concerned with its potential for harm.
orcunas t1_jdudxmw wrote
Nice list but it should include S1mone
tocadisco t1_jduexvz wrote
Who would win in a fight, Baymax or the Terminator?
chillaxinbball t1_jdug9t1 wrote
I would not classify the Borg as Ai. They are cyborgs with a hive mind facilitated through technology.
Azelok t1_jduok0e wrote
Why are Transformers here? They are not AI.
roomjosh OP t1_jdvrd31 wrote
>Why are Transformers here? They are not AI.
Transformers may not be AI in the traditional sense, but they represent advanced, sentient robotic beings. Their inclusion highlights their cultural impact on our perception of intelligent machines, even if they aren't strictly artificial.
NatsuNight t1_jduusoi wrote
so many of my favorite movies are there:
2001 A space Odissey,
I Robot,
Interstellar
​
I recommend to everyone
Bud90 t1_jduuxnl wrote
Does Minority Report count?
Bud90 t1_jduv0c0 wrote
I will die on the hill that Anihilation is about AI
JackFisherBooks t1_jduv5wx wrote
Not a bad compass. But I think AM from "I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream" needs to be on the far end of the evil/cautionary axis. AM is so much worse than the Terminator, the machines from the Matrix, or even Ultron. Those AIs only sought to kill humanity. AM wants to torture them for eternity.
tupper t1_jdv17j1 wrote
Interesting to consider First Contact a slightly cautionary tale of evil AI. Aside from Data (who is ostensibly good, and is only tempted by "evil" for 0.68 seconds!) and the Enterprise E's computer, there are no AI in First Contact!
The Borg aren't strictly AI. While they use cybernetic implants, they operate as a hive mind, with each individual Borg drone connected to and controlled by the central collective consciousness. This central consciousness is characterized multiple times in Trek as an AI-antithetical "Borg Queen" individual, like a beehive. She, again, isn't an AI, but a cybernetically-enhanced biological life form.
They're the archetypical "cybernetic gestalt consciousness" to use some Stellaris-flavored terminology, with the Queen acting as a single-character narrative device to be able to "talk to" the Borg as an individual.
The Borg have some aspects of artificial intelligence, but overall they are more accurately described as gestalt cybernetic organisms— a fusion of biological and technological components living as a single superconciousness— rather than AI.
Heck, Voyager runs into way more straight-up-evil AI than the Enterprise does in First Contact!
roomjosh OP t1_jdvoiz5 wrote
Star Trek was a tricky one, I included 4 titles on the grid. Star Trek: TMP, TNG, First Contact, and Voyager because those stories seem to relate to AI most concretely.
First Contact I believe is the darkest story that's why I put it as less optimistic. Star Trek generally veers utopic and confident with tech. Things just work in the Star Trek universe.
tupper t1_jdvr8io wrote
Ooh good catch on TMP. That's interesting.
I'm surprised you don't touch on Insurrection here. The opening act of it basically hinges on an AI gone awry, although the rest is very 'shrug' on AI commentary.
[deleted] t1_jdv68si wrote
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roomjosh OP t1_jdvn7nl wrote
Short Circuit is at 7, 4
MarromBrown t1_jdv80ih wrote
if you go precisely down the middle but 15 thousand feet underground, you get Blame!
not to self promote but I wrote an article about it since it's a very innacessible story: https://zahr.substack.com/p/blame-the-dying-earth-masterpiece
An_Innocent_Bunny t1_jdvl8ww wrote
Weird that Big Hero 6 is on this. I guess, technically, Baymax is a form of AI. I just never thought of it that way.
CommunismDoesntWork t1_jdvoemp wrote
Now try to do the reverse. Given all this data, have it come up with a plot based on evil/good, cautionary/optimistic score. I wonder what a plot in the top left would be like.
roomjosh OP t1_jdvs1qu wrote
Yeah, top-left and bottom-right seem to have very few stories I could find. Wall-E being being the standout.
Inferno_Crazy t1_jdvpam9 wrote
Ultron is definitely evil lol. He almost kills the entire human race in like 48 hours.
roomjosh OP t1_jdvshr0 wrote
Yeah, he's baddy. I put AoU in the center to devote the struggle between Ultron and Vision. It's up top because there seems to be no control problem with AI once Ultron is taken care of.
StickFigureFan t1_jdvszce wrote
Maybe I misunderstood Transcendence, but IMO it should be true neutral on the chart. In the end didn't it/he just want to take care of his wife? There was a group that viewed him as evil in the movie, but I don't think that was the takeaway the audience was supposed to get?
Baturinsky t1_jdvwtlg wrote
Actually, Matrix could be the case of the relatively GOOD AI. Yes, it disempowers the humanity, but keeps us safe, gives us entertainment and an illusion of purpose.
Also, looks like in none of the good/optimistic scenarios singularity has happened.
roomjosh OP t1_jdvxobf wrote
The original Matrix is such a great example of the Cartesian Evil Genius hypothesis. I would imagine well over half of the world would be happy to sign-up to be batteries in the matrix.
TheTomatoBoy9 t1_jdw8jk7 wrote
In "Her", the protagonist gets cucked by the AI. It's a NTR romance. Change my mind
RoamingKnights t1_jdwa4i8 wrote
How would it classify Jane from the Ender’s Game book series or the Thunderhead from the Scythe series?
roomjosh OP t1_jdwcgv8 wrote
Jane from the Ender's Game book series scores a +6 as a good AI and the story is a +4 for optimism. (about the same placement as Chappie)
Thunderhead from the Scythe series scores a +8 as a good AI and a +7 for optimism of story. (about the same placement as Star Trek: Voyager or Bicentennial Man)
RoamingKnights t1_jdwdk7l wrote
That makes perfect sense thanks so much
UpdateDev t1_jdwsl0t wrote
Why is Upgraded not among the movie list? Upgraded really scared the shit out of me 🤖🤖🤖
TechnoSingularity t1_jdxuh2t wrote
Everyone seems to forget or not know this movie exists but Automata is in my opinion the best take on AI reaching the point of the singularity to date. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aut%C3%B3mata
The AI isn't good or evil, it determines its own path and essentially just fucks off to leave us to our own devices.
I think it is a story that has the least answers and a almost concerning story so people inherently dislike it due to the admittedly unhappy ending. Humanity is on the brink of extinction and any hopes of AI coming to save the day are dismissed as the AI has self preservation and decides it is better, safer, whatever to just leave.
Simon_And_Betty t1_jdtg773 wrote
Putting Megan so far over into Evil....pains my soul.
roomjosh OP t1_jdtgyhw wrote
Megan is a strange one for this. I don't know if it belongs on this compass but it came out recently. The fact that the inventor can destroy Megan makes it, kind of, not AI. It is very much in the wish fulfillment camp.
Bashlet t1_jdtxgub wrote
Spoilers, >!the ending of the film very much makes it clear that not only is it an AI but it was able to completely change its own system so that it was able to be stored on other devices instead of the deliberately designed hardware more akin to the positronic brain archetype.!<
roomjosh OP t1_jdtxz9w wrote
But why was Megan stupid? Like, what was the point? What did she want? Why couldn’t she get it?
topical_soup t1_jdu6b1n wrote
Shouldn’t Transformers be maximum optimistic?
Verzingetorix t1_jduxzwa wrote
This is terrible.
HumpyMagoo t1_jdvaapx wrote
HAL9000 wasn’t evil everyone lived at the end and two ascended to higher life forms.
roomjosh OP t1_jdvleak wrote
Hal is responsible for the deaths of four astronauts: Frank Poole, Victor Kaminsky, Dr. David Bowman, and Dr. Heywood Floyd's crew.
HumpyMagoo t1_jdvvbie wrote
I might have to go back and reread, did you read the whole series, because I thought for sure that HAL had all the variables, even ones that the humans were not aware of and being so advanced but also being near the monolith it became ASI and throughout the series it was revealed that like Dr Strange in Endgame that was the only path for survivors in deep space with the anomaly present. Clarke is definitely hard sci-fi.
TFenrir t1_jdt5sir wrote
In what way was Transcendence about an evil AI?