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spazzadourx t1_iw3hkek wrote

Reply to comment by cloudrunner69 in What if the future doesn’t turn out the way you think it will? by Akashictruth

If anything they are more replaceable. Management positions like CEO seem to be the most easy to automate considering how far AI has come. Manual labour is far more expensive to replace with robots and still has a long way to go. Yet we live in a world where rich and educated people have non jobs like recruiter, HR wanker, cushy office job worker and get paid more simply because of how the class system and economic divide works. Let's be honest here, average middle class person pushed by parents to get some kind of a degree isn't much smarter than someone born to illiterate parents and working as a child. Most of this is political and rich people have been keeping us down forever they're not going to stop

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VanceIX t1_iw3ikqt wrote

Lmao calling CEOs, recruiters, and “HR wankers” as non-jobs is out of touch with reality. Those are all jobs that take really powerful confidence and people skills and long-term reasoning, which is why they aren’t automated yet.

When LLMs become capable of long-term reasoning and perfect human sociability emulation I have no doubt those positions can be automated as well, but it’s not as easy as waving your fists at capitalism demanding that those jobs cease existing.

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spazzadourx t1_iw3lteb wrote

It's literally not about 'capitalism' what are you talking about it's just rich people scamming their way into getting cushy jobs pay more even though they are easier. Capitalism will value pure skill and hard work and these people are actually holding us back if anything. I have had both educated AND normal jobs I know educated jobs are easier and people who work there just come from comfortable middle class backgrounds theyre not smart or special at all. Even people like engineers will tell you managers and such are useless. Do you know how efficient work will be if we got rid of them? And how much more we can advance if social background and discrimination in education wouldn't hold poor smart people back.

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VanceIX t1_iw3mu8k wrote

You’ve got a terribly twisted and jaded view of reality.

I’m a hydrogeologist working with many other scientists and engineers and if you got rid of managers tomorrow you’d tank our whole organization. Those are the people that can worry about long-term economic conditions, finances, and agency-wide collaboration while the scientists and engineers can focus on their own projects.

Don’t just parrot the jaded and out-of-touch voices from Reddit. In the real world the economy is a very complex organism, and saying “capitalism bad” doesn’t accomplish anything. Capitalism is responsible for pulling more human beings out of poverty than any other economic system in history, and continues to do so in countries like India.

Capitalism isn’t perfect, not even close, but we can keep improving it until an AI-run economy is possible, hopefully not too long from now.

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spazzadourx t1_iw3qunl wrote

I don't know how anyone even semi literate interprets any of that as 'capitalism bad' you can't have a proper capitalist society if the class system is holding people back from having an efficient society where intelligence and hard work is rewarded instead of mediocrity.

I refuse to believe rich people are just smarter than poor people, yet if you look up the stats they are overwhelmingly in cushy jobs that are a lot easier AND require less skill than a lot of real jobs. What does a manager even do that a computer can't. It's not a real job ffs.

Do you genuinely think people on reddit AGREE with me? Most people here are rich pricks themselves who wouldn't agree wtf. If anything YOU are refusing to see the reality of our society- it's built on inequality. It's everywhere. The world is not fair and has never been fair in the history of civilization. That was my original point that they'll continue to drag out the current class system instead of have equality just because AI will make their already easy jobs easier. If you believe people *choose* to work in factories and every office worker is there because of skill and circumstances don't affect anything you live in la la land

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VanceIX t1_iw3r7v0 wrote

The world is unfair because the nature of the value of human labor is inherently unfair. Someone having a degree working as a neurosurgeon provides more economic benefit to a society and is thus paid more than someone doing manual labor. It is what it is. To say this will change at any given point is bonkers, the ONLY thing that could possibly change this is the value of all human labor dropping to 0 (i.e. what we will hopefully see with AI this century).

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spazzadourx t1_iw3tdb8 wrote

There is very little competition in neurosurgery because they will almost always have to be from a comfortable background limiting what we could achieve in the field and rewarding mediocrity among rich people. Competition is basically what's supposed to make capitalism better.

It's still not the same as being a manager or HR wanker who do not have any skills you cant find in a poorer less educated person. They hold our society back for personal gain and will continue to do so. If you think some of the office jobs that people have are MORE valuable than manual labour you're deluded. Look in any government office ffs. Or any pretentious over educated sheltered kid start up bound to fail. That is why 'bubble bursts' happen people discover they have over valued certain jobs and businesses simply because theyre uppity.

I don't know what point you're even trying to make my original point was that a lot of inefficiency is caused because of our class system and it's not going to stop because of AI. People predict this perfectly efficient world with UBI which is not going to happen atleast in our lifetimes. The jobs that are the easiest and cheapest to automate are already easy and grossly overpaid because they are posher.

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cjeam t1_iw4ehzx wrote

Capitalism has also created more inequality and more environmental damage than any other economic system in history. It’s really shit.

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VanceIX t1_iw4eo5i wrote

Capitalism is literally the only reason we could plausibly have AGI in our lifetimes…

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[deleted] t1_iw4u7k4 wrote

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VanceIX t1_iw4ud6t wrote

That’s literally what I’m saying though. With the advent of AGI there won’t be value to human labor, which means the end of capitalism.

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[deleted] t1_iw4uqxn wrote

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VanceIX t1_iw4v10n wrote

You’d throw the world into economic turmoil, potentially causing millions to billions of deaths, to replace a system that will become obsolete shortly anyway?

Right now, like it or not, human labor still has value. You abolish capitalism, you also abolish any incentive for advanced AI research. Good luck getting AGI paying PhD and ME researchers a pittance compared to what they earn now at Google, OpenAI, Meta, etc.

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[deleted] t1_iw4w5rq wrote

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VanceIX t1_iw4wiyw wrote

The entire reason we have the cutting edge computing growth and research today is the competitive economy fostered by capitalism. Like it or not, it’s true. If it weren’t, and the government mandating things was a better system, then the USSR would be the leading bloc around the world, not the USA. The federal government can’t wave its hands, print trillions, and solve AGI.

You do you though.

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cjeam t1_iw4ippb wrote

AGI will come out of advanced research labs first. They’re not motivated by capitalism. It’s the next stage of the technological curve that starts to be motivated by capitalism.

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VanceIX t1_iw4osnv wrote

Our whole society is motivated by capitalism. What do you think is responsible for the people who work in those labs choosing to work there, getting paid, the competition to produce results, the decision to get the degrees they needed to work in the field, the taxpayer money or corporate money that funds them, etc? Do you really think this feat would have been accomplished in the USSR or pre-capitalism China?

Capitalism is not the final economic model for humanity, it’s simply the best one for achieving AGI which will be the final economic model.

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cjeam t1_iw70l9j wrote

Taxation funds them, which is not a capitalist funding model.

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