I struggle with people in denial. Snorting hopium for breakfast lunch and dinner they and (more likely) their ego's don't seem to be able to cope with cold facts, cannot entertain holistic wide view analysis, and rational thinking goes out the window in favour of if's/but's and dreams. I expect more people will come around slowly as the world regresses more and more each day. A disaster here, a collapse there, say goodbye to ol' reliable: global supply chain.

I'd argue that /r/collapse is more realistic and the others are more optimistic. Not saying one sub is better than the other. But collapse doesn't sugar coat or greenwash as much.

I wish there was more introspection on reddit about what forms bias can take.

Not just on Reddit…

agreed, but a post like this just makes the preconceived bias obvious. I think anyone that has made a point of steelmanning between solarpunk and collapse ideology has come across the lunarpunk and cypherpunk subsets, and yet it seems that the discussion has erred more to the figurative terms that describe the "other side" as misguided or wrong.

Solarpunk comes after The Collapse, that's what makes it punk

Discussion is one thing, but at least some people‘s minds do change when following discussions.

Collapse is mainly just doomer nonsense. Buncha miserable depressed people just sitting around waiting to die.

I tend to think of it as a race.

We're racing towards both solarpunk and collapse, currently.

If we can attain the technology, and social conscience in time, Solar Punk will win. If not, we'll collapse under the weight of 9 Billion people consuming resources like locusts.

It's unclear how it will ultimately resolve, and we'll probably see bits and pieces of both in the coming years.

r/collapse is an echo chamber for depression. That's not even the worst part, some of the people on there enjoy what they perceive as society collapsing. They want it to happen.

r/singularity is it own-kind of utopian techo religious group where everyone try to convince each other how early Jesus ASI comes.

I think we need to try different things at the same time, and being skeptical is one of things we should do. AI and technology advance is rolling boulder we can't stop, but we can collaboratively nudge it in right direction. Or multiple directions until one proves better than other.

Any day now.

Misery seeking company.

I'm suspicious of any group or ideology that seems too certain about what the future holds. The more I learn, the less confident I feel about my ability to predict what's coming.

It's fun to speculate though. Humans need to dream.

People who think their lives are shit and think they would be better if the world was different tend to gravitate towards collapse discussion. It is a terrible reflection on them, they are basically the incels of life and they want everyone to suffer because they think they would be happier if everyone was like them.

>r/collapse
>
>is an echo chamber for depression.

Broski, every sub on this site is an echo chamber onto itself. It's just what social media devolves into in general and reddit is really bad about this in particular.

I mean, if you really want to point that finger then this sub is not immune to that very same criticism either, half the time it is a techno-optimist hopium chamber and even members of this sub have to reign in some of the other more ,shall we say, 'spirited' posters because they go hog wild with the whole "AGI by 10 am tomorrow!" shtick.

We have met the enemy and he is us. Humans like to surround themselves with like minded people, while denouncing people with dissenting opinions regardless of the facts, which usually lie somewhere in the middle.

I never said this sub isn't an echo chamber. I said that r/collapse is an echo chamber for depression.

My point was that is not a totally fair assessment.

Yes, there are the terminally depressed who frequent that site, but there are also people who post relevant and factual information as well as offer well thought out analysis to current events. To simply write everyone on that sub off as "doomers" would be the same as writing everyone off on this sub as "hopium addicts".

Do you get where I'm coming from? Painting with broad brushes like this really doesn't do most communities justice and to be fair our current situation is very much in a precarious state.

It could go either way, maybe technology will usher in a new age of prosperity, or humanity can drop the ball entirely and screw everything up. Nothing is set in stone at this point.

This is the best take.

I’m convinced half of ppl here are suicidal and staying alive to fuck a waifu in full dive vr and the other half are ex religious people that want meaning in life through ASI

This is my conclusion as well. On both sides we keep saying we underestimate the exponential function, really seems like something big maybe several big things are gonna happen soon. Maybe it’ll be a tug-of-war oscillating between near collapse and AI rebuilding. And most people on the Collabs sub they say like we don’t want to be right but it seems like the writing is on the wall. Hm. Let’s see if I show up as the OP in this reply, kind of surprised I didn’t get any notifications for any comments except for the 10 up votes

Happy to know I'm in the third half :)

I just want to suck AI dick man, that's all.

Day in and day out my reddit new feed is flooded with "we're missing emissions targets, the world is burning and civilization will collapse within the next few decades" articles. Supposing that were true, there is one way I can think of that would definitely avoid that eventuality, and that's reducing the human carbon footprint by several orders of magnitude by stopping producing everything we make out of physical matter if it can fulfill its purpose equally well as a hologram. It costs next to nothing to copy a hologram and creates next to no emissions. But to make a copy of something made out of matter costs a lot, and creates substantially higher emissions. Manufacturing is just one aspect of this extended reality transformations benefits to humanity and earth in this "era of crisis". Transportation emissions will also be drastically reduced once the entire surface of the planet is being photogrammetrized in realtime by satellite, allowing for realtime holographic telepresence, which will be a vastly cheaper than and virtually indistinguishable experience from conventional travel. Fully realized metaverse technology is still decades down the line, and tech companies aren't saying the quiet part out loud at this juncture, but they are developing superintelligence for the purpose of making Earth a much more energy efficient system. This will be downvoted because people don't like to think outside of their comfort zone. But if you're a person who thinks both about the current human condition, with reference to our crises and progress developing superintelligence, you know this is the road map.

Day in and day out my reddit new feed is flooded with "we're missing emissions targets, the world is burning and civilization will collapse within the next few decades" articles. Supposing that were true, there is one way I can think of that would definitely avoid that eventuality, and that's reducing the human carbon footprint by several orders of magnitude by stopping producing everything we make out of physical matter if it can fulfill its purpose equally well as a hologram. It costs next to nothing to copy a hologram and creates next to no emissions. But to make a copy of something made out of matter costs a lot, and creates substantially higher emissions. Manufacturing is just one aspect of this extended reality transformations benefits to humanity and earth in this "era of crisis". Transportation emissions will also be drastically reduced once the entire surface of the planet is being photogrammetrized in realtime by satellite, allowing for realtime holographic telepresence, which will be a vastly cheaper than and virtually indistinguishable experience from conventional travel. Fully realized metaverse technology is still decades down the line, and tech companies aren't saying the quiet part out loud at this juncture, but they are developing superintelligence for the purpose of making Earth a much more energy efficient system. This will be downvoted because people don't like to think outside of their comfort zone. But if you're a person who thinks both about the current human condition, with reference to our crises and progress developing superintelligence, you know this is the road map.

this is why i'm not afraid of the basilisk

Sadly I think we're moving towards the collapse scenario a lot quicker than the solarpunk.

I used to lurk on collapse but I was getting too depressed. There was a common saying there. "once you've seen it, you can't unsee it". Basically means once you've seen the reasoning behind collapse, you can't really unsee it. It makes sense and is actually very unsettling. But, like this sub, they have tunnel vision. They aren't aware of all of the things that COULD happen that could save us from collapse. Things such as material science, AI for more food production and better health care, fusion to replace fossil fuels, all of that seems to be outside their awareness. I still think we are walking on a knifes edge towards another dark age, or maybe a 1984 scenario, but if we play our cards right, we can make it through this. If I were to choose a scenario I think is most likely to happen, I think its collapse though. We are rapidly approaching a point where we see peak oil, coal, construction sand, lithium, etc, meaning that if we don't fix our problems before we reach that point and we do collapse, humanity will never be able to reach the singularity after that since once we do rebuild after the collapse, there will be no more precious metals or energy to allow us to rebuild what we once had. We are literally using up our one chance at being a space faring, techno society, and it might never come again.

There are a lot of exponential growth issues that are hard to track mentally. Like when they decoded the human genome. They were barely started after 90% of their time, and still done early.

Even knowing and understanding exponential growth, it's hard to predict.

Same thing with collapse. Once one thing goes, the rest crumble as well.

Yeah, so you're trying to track a dozen world saving and world destroying issues, all with exponential components.

If anyone tells you they know what's coming next, they're wrong.