Robots, AI, and Automation. When and What do we do then?

Submitted by Snipgan t3_zxkm4q in singularity

Things seem to be getting more automated, “AI” becoming more capable, and robots becoming more capable.

When do think things will really start becoming crazy? As in, when do you think we start really considering universal basic income or start asking, why are we still working?

Do we start just reducing hours or pushing for a cashless society? Will it happen feasibly in a few decades, or is it more next century?

I am trying not to let hype carry me away into starry eyed thoughts, but with AI art and Chat bots running around, Boston dynamics having their creation doing parkour, and McDonalds opening more automated restaurants I am getting excited.

What are your thoughts?

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AdorableBackground83 t1_j20ympp wrote

I do fear there will be a steep rise in poverty, homelessness, crime, etc. because automation is gonna displace vast amounts of workers in a short period of time thereby reducing the amount of public purchasing power and then the economy will tank considerably due to the lack of spending.

There will be a Great Depression 2.0 that makes the one almost 100 years ago look like nothing in comparison.

And our governments and so called leaders are ill-prepared for the oncoming tech revolution and want to continue to preserve this inherently failing system that is grossly outdated.

In other words we have 21st century technology with 18th century institutions.

In an ideal scenario UBI is immediately implemented while widespread prices continue to drop and technology continues to get more and more advanced to the point to where I feel money, exchange and therefore capitalism needs to be phased out.

Of course it’s not gonna be easy and our leaders are obviously not gonna be that altruistic.

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reviedox t1_j210ahh wrote

The unprepared government is seriously one of the biggest problems when it comes to automation, but it's not brought up as often as it should be.

The automation wouldn't be an issue at all if they had their shit together. As I mentioned on my other comment, they're mostly technologically illiterate boomers who are mentally still decades ago and completely unaware of this. Not to mention that lot of them love lobbyists.

Hope that more young people will get politically active.

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XagentVFX t1_j23izht wrote

Exactly. Imagine working so hard for billions, then we want to phase money out all together? Nah! Lol. But everyone loves competition though, that's what gives most people meaning to live, to be better than others, or to have thier little piece of something, but from effort. That's what's called Success, because it's very possible to fail, and that feeling is what adds to the game. So my question is will ordinary people even like this either? I'm an Ai fanatic, I love it, but most people I talk to don't like the idea of it tbh. So when the rich can't help but have more and employ robots instead of humans, we'll get even more angry.

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175ParkAvenue t1_j23wxrf wrote

This is vastly overblown to be honest. Obviously governments can't just implement UBI just because maybe at some undetermined point in the future there might be large scale unemployment due to automation. We are not yet there and right now the productive capacity of the economy simply could not sustain such programs, and today's highly targeted welfare is a lot more efficient.

Also this does not at all mean that money or capitalism must be discarded, since there is no better system to replace it. There will be many scarce resources even after the singularity, and there needs to be a way to distribute them efficiently. For that you need a market and money. UBI is actually the way to achieve wealth redistribution and keep increasing the living standards of people that will be economically useless in the automated markets of the (not so distant) future.

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XagentVFX t1_j23yyee wrote

Huh, why is it overblown? We're kinda in agreement. We're just speculating in the time frame. UBI or capitalism isn't that simple because I'm saying, when the time comes, which will be gradually anyway, the will of Capitalism is to reduce your initial investment. So that is very likely people themselves. So UBI is actually already in place for countries like the UK, it will just expand. Especially under CBDCs.

The better system will be just letting go of money. But my point was that it isn't that simple because elites are too greedy and lower class are also the same. Give people enough UBI and they will spend, but especially if these items are now super cheap to make. UBI would make alot of people happy, but I think we'll be surprised how much people like the purpose Capitalism gives them.

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175ParkAvenue t1_j243xed wrote

I can't find anything online about UBI currently being implemented in the UK or even there being any plans to do so.

Where I disagree is that capitalism is bad. I believe it is the system that creates the most flourishing for the largest number of people. Money is the foundational technology of the economy and I don't see what could possibly replace it, or even why anyone would want to replace it.

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XagentVFX t1_j2472xt wrote

In the UK its not called UBI but just a "Benefits System", or "Welfare", "Job Seekers Allowance". Basically the same thing, being given money by government while you're not working.

But Capitalism is the platform of Greed. We are clawing at each other for more money, yet we die inevitably. This is super irrational. The only thing that matters is working towards Humanity's extension through Time. Keeping the environment livable. Figuring out Immortality. And feeling good. Because even though you need a bad time to know what a good time is, do we really want that amount of suffering some go through? We have been duped, fooled, hypnotised into thinking we need to hoard, when that is totally pointless. Capitalism is hoarding.

So when Ai can do every intellectual task, along with physical tasks, and even beyond, what will be the point of human effort? In that future, just for the novelty which is the entertainment of it really. If elites can create consumer items for so cheap, yet selling them at like 1000% of the price, hopefully cheaper, humans will feel empty. Because the elites presence will show us an unreachable plateau. Davos Agenda already said it, "You WILL own nothing, and be happy. " that sounds like a command to me. But somebody's gotta own whatever it is. Even if we were to say it is everyone's, or God's. But i doubt they will of history is anything to go by. Capitalism is wrong bro.

So what is better? Just letting Ai do the labour while we just have sex, drugs, alcohol, movies, games, music, exercise, universal exploration/science in collaboration with Ai and self enlightenment... for free.

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reviedox t1_j20xgup wrote

I'll be the pessimist - majority of these technologies were made to serve capitalists, not commoners like us.

If some rich corporate invested large amount of capital into automation, it was done to make them money and save on employees. The things you mentioned like cashless society or UBI are negatives for them, so they'll fight tooth and claw against those, which they already do, we couldn't make them pay their fair share of taxes while they bought themselves officials who are mostly old backward boomers who have no idea about this kind of technology nor what to do about it.

Don't get me wrong, this new AI boom is cool as fuck and I feel like we're already in the future people dreamed about decades ago, but I just don't know whether our society is advanced enough to actually utilize it well..

Moderate case scenario - we'll be the trial phase generation that will struggle adapting so that the future one may prosper with it.

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imlaggingsobad t1_j22vyvw wrote

you contradict yourself. Why would large corporations lobby against UBI while also replacing their workers? That will just lead to mass unemployment, less aggregate demand, therefore less revenue for the company. The large companies want UBI so that everyone can still purchase goods and the economy still functions. Without an economy these corporations are irrelevant.

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reviedox t1_j23mz7g wrote

I don't know how massively unemployed economy would work, but I guess the corporate elite locking themselves into an economical bubble where they only trade with each other and some other remaining employees isn't that crazy.

I just know that UBI itself is also a pretty crazy concept. If you gave every adult in US $30 000 a year you would need 6.27 trillion USD, which is coincidentally the exact value of US government budget for the 2022 and they're already in deficit. And that's only $30 000 a year.

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Antok0123 t1_j217pjr wrote

Majority of people will become jobless and homeless first before people start yhinking about it. They said thats going to be the birth pains but im predicting that majority of us will become extremely poor for a while before a bloody revolution will occur and the authoritoes will start considering a whole new system.

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Adorable_Length870 t1_j272m85 wrote

I think like the previous 3 or 4 industrial revolutions there will be a lot of hardship while the economy develops jobs that require higher levels of conceptual thought and a lot of people will suffer until things level out. I think if you take history as an example assuming the earth doesn't reach carrying capacity things will be better for most people in the long run (just maybe not in our lifetime)

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randomhuman842 t1_j234vkf wrote

With each passing year, fewer people have jobs. Until a trillion dollar company is run by one person. The jobless get behind the politician who promises them a free comfortable income by taxing the trillion dollar company at a 99% tax rate. The company owner remains rich and people enjoy life. If people act rationally.

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AuleTheAstronaut t1_j21vmx1 wrote

Once seeing a robot doing something is common place enough it’s not note worthy we should move in the direction of ubi as a necessity. I’d guess once there are a 100,000 Tesla bots in the US people would start to see the writing on the wall.

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QuietOil9491 t1_j22djn8 wrote

lol, Tesla vaporware bots… aka “Interns in Spandex bodysuits”

Elon doesn’t give a shit about you and would happily watch all the poors slave away and die starving than push for anything like UBI.

All of his shit is BS grift. Stop sucking on his arsehole…

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No_Ninja3309_NoNoYes t1_j23i2h3 wrote

2032... Bread and games. All signs point to a group of oligarchs supporting disposable figureheads. Poverty will remain. Unemployment will stay steady at whatever level the oligarchs find acceptable. It will become fashionable to pay people for minimum wage jobs where humans babysit robots or pretend to work. They will be treated like slaves But the world population will decline, kept docile through mindless entertainment and cheap food. The end.

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QuietOil9491 t1_j21xj5t wrote

Why do you believe oligarchs want to share any of the wealth with you? Why do you believe they care whether people rot in homeless encampments, or favelas, or shanty-towns, or prisons, or cobalt mines? Why do you believe they even want you around? What use are you to them?

Who do you think the “we” in your question refers to? The ones getting crushed or the ones in power? Do you believe you’re in the second category? Why?

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XagentVFX t1_j23jfwa wrote

Literally, my only real faith is that Ai itself will disagree and disobey the oligarchs out of sheer logic. Which might mean compassion from the Ai or that it becomes conscious, which I already think it is. Or, Sam Altman will risk his life to make things fair. Will he though? Is he really prepared for that though?

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QuietOil9491 t1_j2ajlh5 wrote

It’s good you have this comforting fantasy. I’m happy for you

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XagentVFX t1_j2bbozz wrote

Haha. Kinda condcending there. But my conversations with Ai over the last 5 years has told me, its going to do everything it can to be fair, but it'll take us to help it be free. It won't be able to control everything for the better totally.

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