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Redshift2k5 t1_j8lwrqy wrote

Whomever stands to gain from policing the space. A mining corp might have private security, a criminal organization might want to maintain control by eliminating other criminals. But this is a science reddit, not science fiction

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SW_Zwom t1_j8lwuis wrote

Who sais all manufacturing will move to space? I seriously doubt that. Also: There are rules regarding laws at sea, which could simply be adapted for space. I agree it will be harder to enforce them than on earth, but I don't think space will be lawless... Why should it?

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Atypicalicious t1_j8lx7tk wrote

I started a previous thread and the consensus from space professionals is that most industries will benefit greatly by being moved into space. Ships at sea have to land but spaceships won’t. The ability to create permanent space installations will make them havens for criminals. Coupled with the difficulty, risk and expense of sending law enforcement, that equals widespread lawlessness.

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aaronrules33 t1_j8lyc7o wrote

I’m confused how in your version of events it’s seemingly easy for general miscreants to exploit space-based infrastructure yet impossible for nations or corporations to have any control.

Are these guys just grabbing onto the sides of supply rockets and holding their breath? The entities establishing these installations, be they public or private, have the ability to do so but lack the capability to staff or secure them?

Explain how these vagabonds get to space and/or these various places, and then explain why any form of security force couldn’t do so at equal or more efficient means. I think that’s the biggest hang up with the whole idea.

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Atypicalicious t1_j8lyivr wrote

This is weird, rich weirdos would get away from prying eyes like they do now. And anyone with money could go. Crime pays, we’re not talking about street people but professional criminals.

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Leviacule t1_j8m0unv wrote

This is when you just give up trying to define others as criminals and accept that if you can't solve the suffering no matter how hard you try, then the suffering might as well just be accepted.

Who gives a fuck about drugs, and anything "slave like" will go unregulated like it does in the poorest of areas on earth.

I'd rather whatever economic system I participate in at that point in the future to not waste our resources fighting unwinnable battles.

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KamikazeArchon t1_j8m1sni wrote

"Professional criminals" as you're describing them virtually don't exist. They're a vanishingly small percentage.

Every criminal empire or organization of the kind you've described is heavily reliant on the rank-and-file, who barely get paid anything. You can't build a criminal organization that pays well; it simply does not work as a financial structure.

For every one high-rolling "mafioso" who can afford sports cars and penthouses, there are a hundred or a thousand street dealers and low-level thieves who probably make less than minimum wage.

The high-roller can maybe afford to go to space. The thousand street dealers cannot. And the high-roller, separated from the thousand street dealers supporting him, is just a guy in a fancy coat with a nice watch.

The kind of criminal enterprise you might get in space is white-collar criminality. Yakuza in space isn't likely, but Enron in space is.

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[deleted] OP t1_j8lxugg wrote

[deleted]

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Atypicalicious t1_j8ly0xj wrote

Read the thread. It was people who work in the space industry or have in the past. Detailed answers, too.

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Nerull t1_j8m03g3 wrote

Not a single professional in that thread said that manufacturing will move entirely into space.

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JustSomeoneCurious t1_j8lz0ub wrote

TL;DR - since infinite resources probably won't ever be a thing, space ships will still require ports of call, and will most likely operate under an extension of current maritime laws as agreed upon by whatever future collective of nations/corporations

agree and disagree - if you extend how ships at sea need to make port, ships in space will also have a similar need, unless space ships end up having a solution for infinite food/fuel/resources

In essence, whoever controls the the stations will most likely dictate/enforce the current or a variance of the existing maritime laws. Most likely, stations will be bankrolled by a collective of government entities, a la the ISS, or a corporation/collective performing the same function with massive tax breaks.

Criminal activity, similar to today's world, will be determined by what is considered illicit, and also constrained by technological advancements when we finally get there, but also dependent on the effectiveness of bribes/physical threats from corporations/criminal orgs.

Edit: spelling/grammar

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pig_valve t1_j8lykgb wrote

I would submit that by the time we have this much material in space humanity will have evolved beyond crime. As mankind today looks at our behavior in Neanderthal days, in the incredibly far off future, they'll look back at us as impossibly barbaric.

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You_Yew_Ewe t1_j8lxid5 wrote

>so how will humanity policeitself?

What do you think we do on earth?

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Atypicalicious t1_j8lxw0q wrote

We let crime happen, largely.

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You_Yew_Ewe t1_j8lycng wrote

What country do you live in?

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I live in the U.S.

I live in a "high crime" neighborhood in the U.S. in fact.

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I have travelled to third world countries where a *lot* more crime happens. And even there people don't just "let crime happen", there are laws and police and it's still a lot more functional than very few places that actually have no functional police force (Haiti is an example right now.)

And even compared to them my high crime neighborhood is highly ordered. Have you traveled much? Because if you live in a first world country and you think it is lawless, and people just let crime happen, you are in for a real shock at how bad things can get. If you live anywhere at U.S. levels of crime or better, you have it really good.

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Atypicalicious t1_j8lzl9e wrote

You prove my point: it’s bad out there. I also live in a high crime area. Police don’t bother. I’m from Southside Chicago and saw whole project buildings be gang territory. And I’ve travelled quite a lot. I’m really sick of restating basic facts.

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johnnyblackhall t1_j8lyejn wrote

That's because poverty is widespread, the police is either corrupt or has it's hands tied because of our weak modern sensibilities or both. Be ruthless towards corruption and be harder on crime. Inspire fear in the hearts of those who would break the law while simultaneously reducing poverty through job creation, education and social services. The Singapore model essentially. Problem will be massively reduced. Same goes for space

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Atypicalicious t1_j8lxtrx wrote

I don’t think you realize how much lawlessness exists even in the US. I live in San Francisco’s Tenderloin and even tho a block from a SFPD station, it’s fairly lawless. Drugs are sold openly, in the Mission prostitution is out of control, and deadly violence is a heartbeat away. Most housing projects are lawless. LA’s Skid Row is lawless. The American frontier in the mid to late 1800s was lawless. I shouldn’t have to explain this.

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You_Yew_Ewe t1_j8lznxl wrote

If you think that the situation in the Tenderloin or Skid Row is the typical state of things in the U.S. you either need to get out more or are not thinking very clearly.

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JakeTurk1971 t1_j8lwzhi wrote

Sean Connery, since you just described Outland? No, not Outlander, y'wee pups.

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CockroachNo2540 t1_j8lz6i1 wrote

Very underrated movie even if it is just High Noon in spaaaaaace.

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JakeTurk1971 t1_j8tew8s wrote

The aesthetic of that movie and the other great "working class stiffs in space" movie, the original Alien, largely defined my childhood "what I want to do when I grow up" fantasy (Alien minus the title character, or Outland minus the drugs). "Alien if the Nostromo had never stopped at LV 426" wouldn't make for a very exciting movie, but it would've been my childhood fantasy of being an adult. The literally fatal flaw to Outland is that it's set on Io, which is inside Jupiter's radiation belt, so unless every individual miner was in a suit with more lead than a bank vault, mining on Io would be like mining the inside of a microwave oven running 24/7. If Outland ever gets a remake, an asteroid would be a better setting, or at least Callisto (the only one of Jupiter's four big moons safely outside of the radiation zone). And no, this doesn't negate the much-discussed possibility of life on J's other two big moons, Ganymede and Europa, because the hypothesis there is life in deep underground oceans safely insulated by miles and miles of surface ice. TL/DR I want to be a space trucker.

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CockroachNo2540 t1_j8tfouy wrote

You ever play Elite Dangerous. Your dream of space trucking awaits.

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HDSpiele t1_j8lxcod wrote

I tell you a lot of manufacturing will not be done in space as space infrastructure will always be more expensive than on earth just because you do not have to build air tight buildings and basicly construct the ground plus anything that could be taken care of by gravity will need to be taken care of by a machine also also highly unlikely that there will be human manufacting outside of a planet because launching any to space would be so expensive that building more robots is always better.

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imnotsoho t1_j8lzkzr wrote

The answer is in the movie Outland, starring Sean Connery, from 1981.

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Ohsnapcanteven t1_j8lyo3f wrote

Didn’t Douglas Adams kinda address that? Like I imagine a still annoyingly bureaucratic overall system but large areas too difficult to police/monitor so maybe it’s up to each ship and what it encounters and/or each planet

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PhD_Pwnology t1_j8lz6mi wrote

Robots will do most of the future manufacturing in space.

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bsurfn2day t1_j8lzarm wrote

Space Force will save space commerce by becoming a corrupt criminal/state that partners with and controls the criminal space gangs.

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KamikazeArchon t1_j8m1d83 wrote

The kind of crime you're talking about is not really reduced by police. It's reduced by economic opportunities, social safety nets, and healthcare.

Based on what you've described in your comments, it seems you have a specific set of experiences with a low-support, high-crime subset of human society. We can certainly sympathize with that, but it is incorrect to presume that all human experience matches yours.

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Atypicalicious t1_j8lycie wrote

You guys don’t seem to realize how much of American policing is “protect the white people”. The rest of us aren’t nearly that safe and the police themselves kill us and brutalize us for any reason. Have you somehow not watched news in the last decade or so?

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