Submitted by weinsteinjin t3_11zdu4h in space
TheCriticalAmerican t1_jdbyuim wrote
>“Now that China is a major space power, I suspect the long-term result – assuming the US does not change its attitude – will be more ITAR-free products developed in places like Europe and the UAE, and ultimately the rest of the world depending less on buying US space products.”
My guess is a jointly designed UAE Moon Rover between China and the UAE leaving out US Components. I think a lot of countries are getting tired of being subject long arm jurisdiction of the US. UAE can't even develop its own space program without approval of the US. That's disappointing...
ferrel_hadley t1_jdc7tid wrote
>My guess
Why should we pay attention to your guesses? Are you an expert on UAE space projects?
>I think a lot of countries are getting tired of being subject long arm jurisdiction of the US. UAE can't even develop its own space program without approval of the US.
They built a rover using ITAR parts because they are the cheapest and the most widely bought. They have been launched towards the Moon on a SpaceX flight using a Japanese lander.
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2022/12/hakuto-r-m1/
You appear high on opinion and low on information.
If you buy components from a country you are subject to their export controls. Its hardly rocket science.
TheCriticalAmerican t1_jdc8vi8 wrote
Well, I clearly hit a nerve.
> If you buy components from a country you are subject to their export controls. Its hardly rocket science.
Correct. That’s disappointing, though. It limits the abilities of countries to develop their own space industries and prohibits international collaboration. It’s disappointing.
ferrel_hadley t1_jdc9x28 wrote
>That’s disappointing, though. It limits the abilities of countries to develop their own space industries
So basically you are braying like a donkey about nothing. Every developer of advanced technologies has laws on re-export.
>prohibits international collaboration.
China steal technology relentlessly. They stole US technology to use on their nuclear ICBMs. This is why there is such rules to try to limit their thieving. (The Wolf Amendment)
I understand that to people like you, every piece of intellectual property in the world belongs to the CCP. The UAE entered into a legal agreement it understood to buy components for its missions. It is not being "unfairly restricted". Now your greed is driving you be angry that you cannot get your hands on those components to steal the IP from.
They can buy the components China already stole from others. :)
Have a nice day.
Analyst7 t1_jdcokwq wrote
Well said very valid points. However your opponent is likely being paid to have this fight. Still thanks for your efforts.
TheCriticalAmerican t1_jdcbz1p wrote
I’m just disappointed that we can’t all work together for a shared future for mankind and are still stuck on militarization and threatening to destroy ourself.
I have no idea what your point is. I’d rather live in a world with completely open access to information and technology so the best and brightest can work together and forge a prosperous future for mankind.
Analyst7 t1_jdcp2w4 wrote
>completely open access to information
Such as the CCP's "Great Firewall"
TheCriticalAmerican t1_jdcr58v wrote
Access to Facebook and social media is the same thing as access to Science and technology. Yes. Absolutely.
ferrel_hadley t1_jdcd237 wrote
>I’m just disappointed that we can’t all work together for a shared future
Id say stealing technology to use for weapons of mass destruction is kind of an acceptable reason to block people from technology access.
>I have no idea what your point is.
Then your opinions can be dismissed.
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[deleted] t1_jdlpqj2 wrote
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CRCLLC t1_jdloqf3 wrote
only in america.. I’m so thankful Morris Chang left this so-called leader country and founded TSMC. I’m so grateful we sold zip ties bought at Walmart for $5, to be sold for $800.. to go from 40% production to 10%.. just to listen to you speak cry baby..
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fencethe900th t1_jdccuum wrote
If they buy components from the US, they're not entirely developing their own program. If they're developing their own program and being self sufficient then these rules don't apply to them. And the only reason they're being restricted is because of international collaboration. And it only blocks China out of the main space faring countries. Europe is free to collaborate with even under ITAR. It's reasonable.
TheCriticalAmerican t1_jdcd9q9 wrote
> Europe is free to collaborate with even under ITAR. It's reasonable.
It’s only reasonable if you agree that certain countries (China) should be barred and not others. I don’t think any country should be barred. I’m against export controls of any kind. Technology and innovation should be for for humanities shared progress and not used as tools for political aims or goals.
fencethe900th t1_jdcu1dp wrote
Yes, they should be used for humanity. However, as those countries have already shown they won't necessarily use it for humanity's best interest, that should align with your reasoning that they're on the list.
TheCriticalAmerican t1_jdcyaoy wrote
By this logic, no scientific research should take place for fear it could be used for military applications. The issue isn’t one particular country - all countries use scientific research to further their military and geopolitical aims.
What I’m saying is humanity is the issue and until we look beyond an ‘Us Vs. Them’ mentality we’ll always been a stone throws away from destroying ourselves.
TheGreatestOutdoorz t1_jde5xx4 wrote
What a ridiculous comparison. If a person who murdered their last 10 neighbors moves in next door, you have a reasonable fear that they will murder you and if you have an ounce of logical, you will take precautions against that happening. If a random person, who has never murdered someone, moves in, it would be silly to fear being murdered by them.
You are saying that the person with the neighbor murderer next door is as unreasonable as the person who is paranoid for no reason.
stevesbetting t1_jderu3c wrote
He's saying that a serial killer is worried about another serial killer that has moved next door.
In much of the world, the US is the devil for pretty legit reasons.
TheCriticalAmerican t1_jdf9ooa wrote
Honestly, yeah. That's a great example. The issue I have is that people start trying to justify the actions of the serial killer they are friendly with and start trying to argue which one is worse.
How about we take a minute to stop and reflect that they both are serial killers and have done terrible awful things and let's move forward trying to not kill each other? Idealistic sure, but a better step in the right direction.
TheGreatestOutdoorz t1_jde684q wrote
Also, if you want to pretend to be an American, you probably should erase your post history which is literally nothing but pro-China propaganda. lol.
TheCriticalAmerican t1_jdfable wrote
So, the way you justify your own perspective is to dismiss everything I say on the grounds that 'This person who thinks differently than me clearly couldn't be an American because it's impossible for any American to think like that!'
Talk about being brainwashed.... The idea that you refuse to entertain the idea that Americans could see evil in their own government and refuse to support its actions speaks more to your propagandized and brainwashed ideology rooted in imperialist hegemony than anything moral or grandiose.
Anyways.... Enjoy your collapsing empire, bank failures, and inflation. I'll continue to live in the happiest country in the world. Cheers, mate!
TheGreatestOutdoorz t1_jdglfz0 wrote
Dude, your the one who created a Reddit account and spend every second spewing pro CCP propaganda, with a username that tries to make you look like an American so people will think you are an American talking BAD about the US. I come on here and discuss a ton of things. Sometimes I’m critical of my government (which you can’t be in China), and I also give my government credit for the many things they deserve.
As for collapsing empires. 1) we don’t have an empire, we have a country. It’s pretty telling that you still look at things on terms of “empires”, because your country wants so much to be one, which is disgusting. 2) your country has hundreds of billions of dollars that have evaporated when you overextended the construction sector, then the economy slowed and demand for new construction dried up. Your biggest(maybe second biggest) sector is hemorrhaging money with literal zero return, as large swaths of buildings lay half finished, unoccupied and worthless.
The funny thing is that I spend a decent amount of time in China, and have also travelled there for leisure (learned mandarin in HS and college), and the wonderful people I have met there are almost all down to earth and realistic about their shitty government. It’s only online that I find you totally brainwashed nutters. I mean, think about it- you spend hours a day shilling for Winnie the Pooh. What’s that say about your life?
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fencethe900th t1_jddhkbs wrote
And what I'm saying is that china has shown multiple times that they do not care about others. They had yet another rocket re-enter uncontrolled over a populated region. They are the embodiment of the us vs them mentality.
TheGreatestOutdoorz t1_jde63gh wrote
Look at his post history. This guy is about as American as chairman Mao.
fencethe900th t1_jdexin6 wrote
So he is. I usually don't check that but I'd guess he's only saying what he is because it's China that's being primarily effected here and he doesn't want to admit they're not a very nice country, government-wise.
WaytoomanyUIDs t1_jdc3q21 wrote
They are going to find the long arm of the CCP even more choking
Southern_Change9193 t1_jddevb2 wrote
Any example of CCP long arm?
TheGreatestOutdoorz t1_jde4nqk wrote
The entire South China Sea
WaytoomanyUIDs t1_jdedt4d wrote
And their not so stealth anymore colonisation of Central and Southern Africa
stevesbetting t1_jdequvg wrote
Garbage.. Interesting that NATO Caucasians complain of Chinese colonization of the continent more than Africans.
No_Leader1154 t1_jdcngom wrote
Your username checks out. I would just like to go ahead and remind that the US is a country of immigrants — people that left behind their old worlds to come build a new, better one. It’s the same spirit that’s driving and has driven US space innovation. Clamping together a rocket is pretty easy. Imagining it isn’t.
Your heart is in the right place. Too right perhaps. It’s easy to forget the kind of kindness that’s possible in the United States isn’t everywhere else.
stevesbetting t1_jderc2g wrote
The US rocket program was Kickstarted by kidnapped nazi scientists.
The fascists were more imaginative than your so called democracy and the communists even sent the first satellite and man into space. You overrate democracy and migration too much.
[deleted] t1_jdewtw1 wrote
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ferrel_hadley t1_jdgrhps wrote
>The US rocket program was Kickstarted by kidnapped nazi scientists.
The US rocket program was kick started by Robbert Goodard, Goddard's widow successfully sued for patent infringement. Not something the thieves at the CCP will ever admit too.
>The fascists were more imaginative than your so called democracy
This another lie. The west focussed on code breaking, radar and proximity fuses, weapons that had a massive impact on the war, the Nazis focussed on things like huge liquid powered rockets that had no impact.
The Chinese liquid fuelled rocket program was started on "stolen" Nazi technology. Being a very backward country they had to have it gifted to them from the Soviets.
>The first of the Dongfeng missiles, the DF-1 (SS-2, initially codenamed '1059', while the 'DF-1' designation was initially assigned to the project which later became DF-3[1]), was a licensed copy of the Soviet R-2 (SS-2 Sibling) short-range ballistic missile (SRBM),[2] based on the German V-2 rocket. The DF-1 had a single RD-101 rocket engine, and used alcohol for fuel with liquid oxygen (LOX) as an oxidizer. The missile had maximum range of 550 km and a 500 kg payload. Limited numbers of DF-1 were produced in the 1960s, and have since been retired.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongfeng_(missile)#Dongfeng_1_.28SS-2.29
So China started with stolen German technology that was stolen from the US in the beginning.
> the communists even sent the first satellite and man into space. You overrate democracy and migration too much.
Soviet Union does not exist any more. Seems a fate that has happened to almost all Communist countries. Just a couple left going.
[deleted] t1_jdetyk6 wrote
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