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A_Vandalay t1_itx96ri wrote

Reply to comment by Adeldor in US Space Systems debriefs Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin executives on military space weapon applications and opportunities by upyoars

The fact that they have delivered engines for ULA proves that they should be taken seriously. As they were able to develop a massive rocket engine on a more cost effective and aggressive schedule than Aerojet rocketdyne who was largely building their AR1 engine based off of Soviet designs. That alone is a huge achievement, keep in mind the complexity of a rocket engine drastically increases with scale. What rocket lab, astra, Virgin, and all the others has accomplished is impressive but it’s not nearly as challenging from a propulsion standpoint. Secondly they are included in these discussions and plans because what they are planning can actually contribute to them. Astra, virgin, relatively and all the rest would need to scale launchers by a factor of 10-100 to be able to even contribute to similar plans. Some of these companies are planning such vehicles but their development is even further behind than that of NG.

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Adeldor t1_itxooch wrote

But they are many years late on BE-4 delivery, and they've yet to reach orbit. Thus, to me, they haven't yet truly proven themselves. Not that BO would care about my opinion, of course. :-)

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kevintieman t1_iu06kfw wrote

To be fair, it took SpaceX roughly the same time to develop the raptor. So while late according to schedule, it’s actually not that bad.

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Bensemus t1_iu16527 wrote

Raptor is an engine design that has never been used before. BE-4 is a well known design but using new fuel. SpaceX is also has built over 100 V1 engines and has already built multiple V2 engines. Blue likely has yet to build 10 BE-4s

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kevintieman t1_iu1acsf wrote

Developing an engine from scratch is hard, both BE4 and raptor were. And none of those 100 v1 engines will be used to get to orbit. Look, I’m a big fan of SpaceX. But I also think BO deserves credit for developing such a complex and powerful engine. I’ll be rooting for BO and ULA for a successful first flight of Vulcan.

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Adeldor t1_iu08fov wrote

Yes. That's very true. However, as I see it:

  • meanwhile, SpaceX also dominates the launch market with a reusable booster

  • Raptor development challenges engineering and materials limits in ways BE-4 doesn't.

I'm now in danger of coming across as anti-BO. I'm not. Nothing would be better for all were BO to excel. But I don't seem them there (yet).

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EmbarrassedHelp t1_itxg3z9 wrote

Their engineers didn't come up with a rocket design that could operate in the dark, and they got upset at NASA for it. PR-wise they have a lot of work to do lol

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