Amazon would ship from the moon by now if that could ever actually be possible. Electric cars and the such are a gimmick they have been around for hundred years as well.

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Humans evolved to live on Earth.

Anywhere we go away from our home planet will have negative physiological effects over time until we either adapt our biology to different conditions or replicate near exact Earth conditions elsewhere. Atmosphere and radiation shielding we can manage but artificial gravity is still science fiction.

We can visit, and stay to a point, but plans to live there long term isn't feasible yet.

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extreme cold temps, toxic soil, intense radiation....we'd almost be required to live underground. and that wouldnt alleviate the other things you mentioned. itd be a hurculean task.

id argue terrforming is going to be necessary before we can colonize planets.

Highly doubtful, but why would you want to anyways? Mars has absolutely nothing to offer human life.

Just put on a 50 kilo backpack and you'll be fine.

There is a lot of other issues though, so I think muscle and bone strength is a minor inconvenience compared to those.

Food would be very difficult to get. I wonder if we could even farm on Mars. The soil may not support our crops and they may not get enough sunlight. Also without a proper atmosphere we couldn't burn any fossil fuels or wind power leaving just solar energy. Not sure how much sunlight would be available.

On the plus side, 99.9999999999999999% of the population WOULDN'T be there ...

You actually can use wind power on Mars (source1, source2).

And there's also nuclear power.

That would be high on the list of reasons to go.

Potatoes ? There was a film and everything…..

The long term physiological effects of partial gravity are unknown at this time. There's no data as to the relationship between partial g and what, if any thresholds there are. Only by trying will it be determined whether or not it's feasible.

No. Humans got adopted to the conditions on Earth. It took hundreds of thousand of years. We cannot just move to a different planet and expect to be good with different conditions, or adapt to them. It takes ages.

Ideas just did a show about that:
Dinner on Mars: How to grow food when humans colonize the red planet
based on the book by Newman & Fraser.

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The problem is unless we can get a space station that can simulate Martian gravity, there is simply no data to back up any position on the topic. We do a lot of zero-G research, but we need a station that will allow us to simulate different gravities so we can do research in those as well

1/3 gravity would be pretty fine physiologically speaking. There is pretty decent data on this. The gravity would be the least of the problems on Mars.

> 1/3 gravity would be pretty fine physiologically speaking. There is pretty decent data on this.

To my knowledge, there's no data on this. Have you a reference?

Terraforming will take centuries minimum if it even can be done. Building a habitable base is surely achievable in a shorter time frame.

Homo Sapiens Sapiens, who seem to have evolved in the northwest corner of Africa, now exist in every climate on Earth. We don’t actually know what we’re capable of.

We still have a pretty poor understanding of what Mars has to offer. That’s why we want people to be able to go there.

It would certainly be easier to do to Earth. Earth is Easy Mode on terraforming. Seems like we could learn a lot by reversing the climate catastrophe, however many centuries it might take.

Do you know how much time it took?

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All of the research on this concentrates on returning to the relative hypergravity environment of Mars after the 6 month micro-G transit trip.

Even bedrest studies do not replicate the real microG environment because of the transverse loading on the bones that induces iconoclasts to maintain some bone mineral density.

Small 80# people don’t have issues with gaining muscle mass in 1G if they eat enough food and exercise.

All of this points to the fact that collectively the research strongly suggests that even a little bit of gravity is enough to strongly mitigate the historical issues with space flight in microG. So much so that NASA isn’t really too concerned with 1/6 long term. 1/3 gravity is barely a concern at all, except it being too high after a long Mars transit.

Sadly, none of this is useful for determining whether or not multi-year living in constant 0.38 g has any permanent deleterious effect. And there's only one way to get such data.

The nearest real data available are from the ~year long stays in 0 g. They bode well for partial g, but given the relatively short periods that's merely intuitive extrapolation and yields no information on thresholds.

Sure. But the point still stands. All the data suggests that this is a minor issue at worst compared to all the other health and engineering challenges for Mars.

>artificial gravity is still science fiction.

that is plain wrong, rotating habitats can produce the desired effect in space and low gravity planets.

it is expensive and needs to be very large for it to be practical , but it is possible with current technology

Mars has some gravity, and since we know people survive in zero gravity with some issues in the long term, it is likely Mars won't be a serious issue for adults.

might cause issues with children and maybe pregnancies, if really needed you could have a rotating ring in the surface of Mars so that pregnancy and most of commends critical growth happen close to 1g.

That's centripetal force, not artificial gravity. It works well enough for rotating in space but doesn't help on a planet surface. I'm not sure how you think that would work under low gravity on a planet.

Mars is pulling just under 0.4 G and we actually don't know the effects of lifetime exposure to low gravity. We have data on low/no gravity short term, from space missions, and have observed that little to no gravity has a negative effect on bone density and muscle mass. Also circulatory changes happen causing "puffy face" but we don't know the long term effects would be for someone raised in 0.4 G on Mars, for example.

I'm not sure where you get your information that Mars gravity isn't an issue for adults and low gravity only would affect children and pregnancies only. Do you have a source so I can read into it some more?

> works well enough for rotating in space but doesn't help on a planet surface. I'm not sure how you think that would work under low gravity on a planet.

like literally every small amusement park has one around.

in a planet you make a horizontal ring and rotate it, it would generate a centrifugal (pseudo) force. you put the floor you would walk on perpendicular to the resultant of Mars gravity and centrifugal force. if you have 0.4 g then if you don't rotate you have 0.4g as minimum, in which case the floor is horizontal. the quicker you spin it the more total gs you have and the more slanted you make the floor ( with a limit of but never reaching 90 degrees for extreme accelerations.

as for the low gs, sure we don't have specific data, but we already know poodle survive over a year in 0g with only minor issues, and some of the issues are actuality issues that affect your return ( you are ok in 0g with muscle and bone loss) .

and dime of the issues are related to not having a " down" those inmediately disappear on Mars, since it has a clear " down"

moderately low gs are clearly and inbetween case so they will be likely not much of an issues for adults, since they can already survive in 0g.

we have little to no data on pregnancy and davenport in zero gravity and none in Mars g, so those could be an issues or not, we don't know. in pregnancies it is probably either pregnancies can't get to term due to the lack of a down vector, or no effect at all. the fetus is already floating in liquid so the lack of gravity is unlikely an issue until after birth.

a child growth would presumably be affected somehow by lower weight, kids might grow thinner, or taller, or weaker. sobre will have to see. again it seems these are issues that are more likely to hinder the martian born from traveling to earth more than their life there. but in the worst case you could solve if not with weights and exercises with the rotating habitat creating 1g.

Homo Sapiens Sapiens looks to be something like 300,000 years old. That’s very young as species go. Before (and a while after) that, there had been other Homo species for about 4,000,000 years.

H. Sapiens spread across the earth in a couple tens of thousands of years. But aside from little variations, there’s not a ton of evolution happening. We’re all H. Sapiens Sapiens.

That what I've read, as well. The are studies underway to get more information about the physiological effects of low G, but until we have something like the proposed moon base we are using the ISS as a proxy, and it's effectively 0 G. We do know 0G isn't good for us, and the longer we stay the more pronounced the problems.

Until we have more information and a way to mitigate the problems, living in space or low G like the moon or Mars isn't feasible is my point. We aren't going to send people into an unknown hazard and then see if they live, or suffer. We will do years of studies and short trips before that happens.

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