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___pockets___ t1_j1uxsuv wrote

mathematics is considered to be a universal language and yes, ive heard people say that it isnt wise to broadcast our location

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themattboard t1_j1uzi2a wrote

Which is odd because of all the species on earth that communicate, we're the only one that I know of that uses math (without human intervention)

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___pockets___ t1_j1uzsrv wrote

universal in the sense that it is an absolute

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Icy-Conclusion-3500 t1_j1v1pig wrote

But the language to convey math is still language that humans made up

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SparseGhostC2C t1_j1v2vuu wrote

Right, but its our representation of rules and laws that exist throughout the universe (as far as we're currently aware). For a sufficiently advanced alien species figuring out what we were trying to convey would be like a cryptoquip in the newspaper, or decoding a message with a very basic cypher.

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sshish t1_j1v5uhq wrote

That’s like saying the letters T, G, A, and C being a human invention means DNA is also made up

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Icy-Conclusion-3500 t1_j1v61md wrote

Not at all. That is not a proper comparison, as I’m not arguing that math is made up.

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sshish t1_j1v72d6 wrote

How is it not a proper comparison? DNA isn’t made up, either, even if our means of interpreting it are. As another user mentioned, math is an absolute language and can be used as the basis of communication between alien civilizations. Any alien translators with an understanding of mathematics should be able to use pattern detection to recognize our means of representing mathematics

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Icy-Conclusion-3500 t1_j1v7u46 wrote

That’s all fine, but your comment about DNA is not saying the same thing.

It’s a brain-dead comparison. That’s implying I said “our language of math is made up, so math is made up”, which isn’t what I said at all.

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gobblox38 t1_j1v7b1s wrote

Math is made up, but it uses logic that's based on physical phenomena. Math isn't discovered, it's invented.

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bradland t1_j1v2uot wrote

Yes, but the record isn't designed to be interpreted by squirrels. It is speculated that mathematics would be the universal language amongst intelligent species, where "intelligent" is defined as being at least as advanced as the human race is currently.

Given the vastness of space, the chances that Voyager will ever been seen by another intelligent species is diminishingly small, even on the time scale of the entire universe. The only species who have any real chance of finding it would be incredibly sophisticated.

To a species so advanced, the puzzle of the record would be trivial. We can say this with confidence because the laws that govern our universe are the same no matter where you are (outside of black holes, maybe). So any species who have solved the incredibly complex challenges required to locate a spacecraft like Voyager would easily decode the record.

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Lord_Sithis t1_j1v1krm wrote

All things use math, or operate with its principles. That's the point of it being a universal language. It operates in all things, even if it isn't all animals just screaming word problems all day.

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YeetedApple t1_j1v7lsl wrote

Universal for any advanced civilization. Any species that would have the ability to find and observe the golden records would likely have to have an understanding of math to do so. Worrying about making sure dogs and cats can understand the writing on a satellite is not necessary when they will never even see it to begin with.

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BobcatBarry t1_j1v69x6 wrote

Everything uses math. For some, 1+0= 2. Others, 1+1= 2 to 15. For others, 1+1= thousands.

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sicinprincipio t1_j1v9603 wrote

Fundamentally, written language is just patterns that have been assigned meaning by those using it. Theoretically, any space faring civilization that could discover the golden records would be advanced enough to be able to figure out the disk. Much like how humans can recognize patterns to solve puzzles.

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[deleted] t1_j1v2uu8 wrote

Kind of frustrating some scientist took it upon themselves to broadcast our location. I mean who were they to decide for the entire human species that we wanted to scream out our location. Theres no turning back now

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ToAlphaCentauriGuy t1_j1v4hte wrote

Its not hard to find a planet. We've been found, we're just not intetesting enough to merit anything other than the occasional AI drone

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kestrana t1_j1v56w2 wrote

If it makes you feel better, it's entirely likely that by the time something finds it, our Sun will have expanded to make Earth uninhabitable.

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BradSaysHi t1_j1v664b wrote

Humanity has been blasting signals into space for more than a century now. An extragalactic species will have a far easier time "hearing" us than they will finding Voyager. There was no turning back when we first turned a radio on, not when Voyager was launched.

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DreamChaserSt t1_j1v6h55 wrote

A couple things here

  1. it's pretty unlikely that the systems we've sent messages to have civilizations in the first place. The rationale that certain systems may have life doesn't mean it would have a civilization, so our efforts in METI are really unlikely to stumble across someone.

  2. Our location is already known by any reasonably advanced civilization. In the last couple decades, we've already found thousands of planets across thousands of light years. Our technology is getting good enough that we can start to look for biosigniatures, and there are even concepts like the solar gravitational lens, that could allow us to not only image, but map entire planets as if we had probes in the system (possibly even allowing us to spot city lights and other technosigniatures). And that's with technology we have now, or can develop in the next couple decades. A civilization capable of just ubiquitous interplanetary travel could easily map their section of the galaxy, and have, on record, every planet with life, and every planet with a possible or known civilization. That will include us. And that's not getting into civilizations capable of interstellar travel.

Acting like we're doomed because of a few messages is misguided fear at best, and concern trolling at worst. If there are other civilizations out there, close enough to reach us, they already know we're here. We don't need to send out messages for them to know that. So we have nothing to lose and everything to gain by attempting contact, because if someone is willing to respond, I'd wager they're helpful in the first place.

Interstellar travel is hard anyway. It can take decades or centuries to reach distant stars, even with the best technology, so the idea that a civilization might attack others isn't really a cause for concern. If there was anyone malicious out there, I refer back to my second point, in that they already know we're here, so as morbid as it is, there's nothing we can do about it. But seeing as life has been around for bilions of years, and our civilization has been allowed to exist up to now doesn't look to me as though there are murderous civilizations out there rabidly wiping out any life.

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DUNG_INSPECTOR t1_j1v6hh4 wrote

A species capable of finding Voyager is capable of finding Earth without the need for directions.

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Poopy_Paws t1_j1v72na wrote

It'll eventually be outdated. They used stars to pinpoint our location. Stars drift over time. Our constellations will be indistinguinishable in a few thousand years. If it's found a million years from now there's more than decoding the record. You literally need to turn back time for the original locations, if the stars even exist anymore.

It's not worth worrying about.

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