Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

themattboard t1_j1uzi2a wrote

Reply to comment by ___pockets___ in do we really believe aliens can decode the golden records by Calm-Confidence8429

Which is odd because of all the species on earth that communicate, we're the only one that I know of that uses math (without human intervention)

−3

___pockets___ t1_j1uzsrv wrote

universal in the sense that it is an absolute

23

Icy-Conclusion-3500 t1_j1v1pig wrote

But the language to convey math is still language that humans made up

−7

SparseGhostC2C t1_j1v2vuu wrote

Right, but its our representation of rules and laws that exist throughout the universe (as far as we're currently aware). For a sufficiently advanced alien species figuring out what we were trying to convey would be like a cryptoquip in the newspaper, or decoding a message with a very basic cypher.

11

sshish t1_j1v5uhq wrote

That’s like saying the letters T, G, A, and C being a human invention means DNA is also made up

5

Icy-Conclusion-3500 t1_j1v61md wrote

Not at all. That is not a proper comparison, as I’m not arguing that math is made up.

−1

sshish t1_j1v72d6 wrote

How is it not a proper comparison? DNA isn’t made up, either, even if our means of interpreting it are. As another user mentioned, math is an absolute language and can be used as the basis of communication between alien civilizations. Any alien translators with an understanding of mathematics should be able to use pattern detection to recognize our means of representing mathematics

1

Icy-Conclusion-3500 t1_j1v7u46 wrote

That’s all fine, but your comment about DNA is not saying the same thing.

It’s a brain-dead comparison. That’s implying I said “our language of math is made up, so math is made up”, which isn’t what I said at all.

−1

gobblox38 t1_j1v7b1s wrote

Math is made up, but it uses logic that's based on physical phenomena. Math isn't discovered, it's invented.

0

bradland t1_j1v2uot wrote

Yes, but the record isn't designed to be interpreted by squirrels. It is speculated that mathematics would be the universal language amongst intelligent species, where "intelligent" is defined as being at least as advanced as the human race is currently.

Given the vastness of space, the chances that Voyager will ever been seen by another intelligent species is diminishingly small, even on the time scale of the entire universe. The only species who have any real chance of finding it would be incredibly sophisticated.

To a species so advanced, the puzzle of the record would be trivial. We can say this with confidence because the laws that govern our universe are the same no matter where you are (outside of black holes, maybe). So any species who have solved the incredibly complex challenges required to locate a spacecraft like Voyager would easily decode the record.

18

Lord_Sithis t1_j1v1krm wrote

All things use math, or operate with its principles. That's the point of it being a universal language. It operates in all things, even if it isn't all animals just screaming word problems all day.

17

YeetedApple t1_j1v7lsl wrote

Universal for any advanced civilization. Any species that would have the ability to find and observe the golden records would likely have to have an understanding of math to do so. Worrying about making sure dogs and cats can understand the writing on a satellite is not necessary when they will never even see it to begin with.

1

BobcatBarry t1_j1v69x6 wrote

Everything uses math. For some, 1+0= 2. Others, 1+1= 2 to 15. For others, 1+1= thousands.

0

sicinprincipio t1_j1v9603 wrote

Fundamentally, written language is just patterns that have been assigned meaning by those using it. Theoretically, any space faring civilization that could discover the golden records would be advanced enough to be able to figure out the disk. Much like how humans can recognize patterns to solve puzzles.

1