Submitted by BlankVerse t3_103qxr1 in space
We need it. Just maybe not all at once
That is just how it works. Growing up in the 80s, I always wondered why people wanted to live in California, with fires all summer, mudslide causing flooding rains and massive snow dumps in the winter and earthquakes whenever. In the 2010s, the flooding rain and crushing snow vanished, and California discovered drought. Still don't know why people want to live in California, but it seems like California has two modes-flooding rain and crushing snow or drought.
Edit: (looks at downvotes) gee. I guess child me seeing all the news of fire and flood and earthquakes and me not wanting to live there has offended Californians, lol. People interviewed saying they worried every summer about fire. They've been burned out several times and lost homes to mudslides. Weird that an 12 year old might think California isn't the best of places to live.
This needs to be spread more. California is closed. Besides, it’s a hellhole. Nobody come here. Don’t ask why, just trust me and stay away.
Yeah this place sucks. The pacific is ugly and the pastries are expensive.
Exactly. You’ll hate it here. Go back to your hometown.
Try that Bugs Bunny reverse psychology on the people south of you, heh.
Skip the left turn at Albuquerque.
Because sensationalized news isn’t an accurate representation of living here, and even with the occasional mudslides, a major wildfire affecting homes less than once a year (on average), and regular drought (that part sucks but is part of our normal weather cycle), California is beautiful, has just amazing weather, and offers so much natural beauty and outdoor activities that it’s worth it.
Everyone has to compromise on something to live where they live. I’m sure the weather in your state is absolute shite much of the time. That’s your compromise for living somewhere you can afford.
For nearly perfect weather year round, and all the aforementioned natural, scenic beauty, skiing, wine, beaches, mountains, hiking, big cities, agriculture, tech industry, deserts, national parks, national forests, Yosemite, the giant sequoias, the architecture, the landmarks, etc., we opt to live with regular drought and occasional major wildfires.
We used to live in Houston, which has had some of the worst flooding in US history. I am from Florida, which sees hurricanes nearly every year. I’ve been to Ohio, where it was just 34° below 0°. I’ve stayed in Michigan, where the wind chill in the winter is regularly -17°, and the lake effects snow stops everything. I’ve been to the PNW, which is arguably beautiful but super depressing with the constant drizzle.
I’ve spent more than a month of my life in Hawaii, which is amazing. But there’s not much skiing, and they don’t really have great wine. And it rains a lot there, too. Plus, it’s HUMID.
So, yeah. California, like every other place on Earth, is imperfect. But the trade-off is worth it.
SSSHHH!!!! Don't tell people this!
California sucks. It's a shit-hole. The whole thing, top to bottom, side to side. Don't come.
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Look at one of my responses. There is data issued by the state of California that shows the years I formed this opinion were, in fact, rainier, more snow, and more fires that were normal.
Edit. Hit enter too quick. Yes, every state has a problem. All of this hostility is because I had the audacity to point out that my opinion was that parts California either had flood years or drought years. Then I had the audacity to back my childhood opinion with facts.
You’re speaking out of your ass and getting called out on it. You’re criticizing a state you’ve never lived in or experienced firsthand and dismissing those of us who actually live here. And you’re calling that “hostility.” Mmkayyy
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Your original comment was three sentences and the first and last one both were saying how you didn't understand why people live in California. It's just a silly comment based on taking the fear too far, that's why you get downvoted.
Nobody cares if it happened to be raining harder in Cali during that time and what the data shows, because it didn't cause that much chaos like the Pakistan floods or Somalian drought or something really life altering on a mass-scale. Almost all californians were fine then and are fine how, in fact we have other problems most of us would say are bigger.
I didn't understand why people wanted to live in California when I was a child of 10, 11 years old. My opinion didn't change much as I grew older, 15,16, because there really wasn't a need to review this opinion and the news hadn't really changed all that much. As an adult, my opinion of California changed, but the facts of California's rain/snow/drought remained the same.
"Nobody cares if it blah blah" yet they cared to make the OP. Somebody cared enough to comment about "not all at once." Some cared enough to say my recollection didn't happen. I really don't care about today's weather in California. What bothers me most about all of this is that on a science sub, good data supporting my opinion is provided and disregarded by so many. It was a harmless childhood opinion based on facts. It's not that my opinion is being dismissed. It's that it's being dismissed when data is provided to support the opinion. I might as well find an Arizona based MAGA science sub to follow (I know, science and MAGA don't mix) if relevant supporting data is going to be dismissed.
None of this discussion matters if we are going to bring the world extremes such as Pakistan and Somalia into play. Somebody almost always has it worse.
You don't seem to want to listen to any of the replies telling you why you are being downvoted, like I said it's not about the data you keep providing, it's the way you are talking and the sensationalism
I made a simple comment based on a childhood opinion that happened to be fact based. I was told "no that didn't happen." I provided background links. Basic response I get- "nuu- uhhh. California is perfect.40 million people can't be wrong. " Sensationalism? Presenting state supplied data is sensationalism? It doesn't get more boring. I'm sorry you're your offended. Other than Alabama Crimson Tide levels of state pride, California looks like a great state to visit.
Your Comment/s are Just Fine.
What we say here isn't going to influence the man on the moon digging out samples of cheese. All this touchy feely Bs is just that, they're still depressed they didn't get what they wanted from Santa Claus when they were five. Still stuck with cracked display 'Speak & Spell'.
Doesn't matter WTH of those who claim living there claim. The State covers close to 800 miles North to South, and none of is related from one end to the other, and I have since early 70's lived there from time to time.
I constantly watch the weather there to help out friends who live in different parts of any threat. Oceanside has been weather station on my app since Day1 1998. Or one could be at Buffalo New York, under 8' of snow, with no way to get out of their house,
or Palm Desert where I lived, and to get the mail barefoot at noon, you better have C02 fire extinguisher backpack, they will burst into flames.
Then of course Big Bear Calif, more snow, but not as cold like 55 below zero like here Northern MN. Where right now a member here is camping in tent in middle of Gun Flint Trail. The other night was barely above zero. That's one tough camper.
Plus the thought of black bears we had on the farm chewing on your toes through nylon isn't my style of chew toy. They've snuck up me in stealth mode before. When you hear breathing before branches cracking, it's stage right, right now. Cheers
That's right. 40 million people must be wrong because this place is just horrible. Crappy weather, fires, earthquakes every day. Gosh, y'all should stay in Pennsyltucky, don't move here. No more room.
Go back up the comments. I have backed my observations with Calufirnua supplied stats.
Have you visited the state? Take a trip to the coastal Redwoods in the north, Big Sur in the middle, San Diego beaches and mountains, check out Yosemite, Joshua Tree and Anza Borrego, hike a couple miles of the PCT near the Muir Wilderness, check out the Alabama Rocks near Lone Pine and then Devil's Postpile. I've visited all 50 states and lived in 6 over my six decades of living and nothing...nothing holds a candle to the Golden State.
I would absolutely love to visit California. Preferably on a 6 month plan. Wouldn't mind living there either. For the most part, all states have their built-in pros and cons.
Yes they are, as one who is stuck here, CA is the worst state in the union. For multiple reasons.
Being born here and living 99% of my life in CA, I can tell you that it was a beautiful childhood being raised in the Redwoods. We lost our home to a flood, and another was damaged by an earthquake. Living my adult life and raising children on the gorgeous Central Coast has also been a wonderful experience. We lost our home to a wildfire a few years ago. I can totally understand why 12 year old you would say no thanks to living here. Shit happens no matter where you go. California really is a beautiful state and it's home to me, can't really see myself anywhere else.
Oh, I agree. California looks like a great place, and yes, most parts of the country have natural negatives. I would love to spend 5,6 months just visiting. Adult me sees the whole picture. Kid me says no, lol.
Umm… none of these is even accurate. We rarely get rain, we hardly had any fires this year, and crushing snow isn’t a thing. We get our water from the snow melt, so more snow = less drought. Oh and better skiing!
Ok. I'm getting really tired of people reading part of my comment and comprehending less, so I will walk you through it. I said, " When I was growing up," which would imply 12-21. Old enough to be becoming aware of the world, but not an adult. I also said, "in the 70s and 80s," which covers 20 years, but we only need 10, so I grew up 78-88 or so. Which is exactly right.
This is the snow I saw. Most years showing well above average and one year showing double the average. It fits with my comment of "crushing snow"
This is the rain I saw. The beginning of my time frame marks the beginning of a significant increase in rainfall, a state wide increase that lasts years. Except I don't have the stats available to show that it is an increase, so this is California normal.
[This is the fire I saw](http://Long-term trends in wildfire damages in California https://emlab.ucsb.edu/sites/default/files/documents/wildfire-brief.pdf) My idea for California's fire scene also developed on a peak period. It dropped off in th 90s before climbing.
My interpretation of California being a snow bound, flooding, burnt to hell state is statistically backed up for the time frame relevant to me, as was stated in my comment. Looking at the data I posted, California is drying out, getting less snow, and burning more. The Central valley has sunk 28 feet due to ground water not being replenishec.replenished.
You are establishing a drying out, dying environment as the great normal. This is how environmental destruction spreads because too many people today ignore older people who talk about how different their childhood was. You believe their experience is the ideal normal.
just fyi, your personal experience isn't even close to what the majority of californians experience. The majority of people have always lived in or around the LA or SF area and did not experence these crushing snows or flooding you are talking about. When I was growing up there, I remember only one hailstorm in the silicon valley. That was about as bad as you got in terms of cold weather for the majority of the people who live in California....
Reread my comments. Now read them again. This isn't my personal experience. It's what I saw on the news in the 80s. Look at the post. See the blue words? Those are links to data from the state of Caliirnia that support what I claimed to have seen on the news. See the link to the Sierra Nevada snowfall? See how low relative to average it is becoming? That snow pack is where LA gets a lot of water. LA might have nothing but pretty weather, but LA is getting thirsty.
So basically you claim doom and high water and wondered why anybody would want to go and live in California without actually experiencing anything yourself from the place you are criticising.... man have you ever even traveled out of your state?
Yes, I have. Traveled out of the country as well. I would actually like to visit California. The state looks magnificent.
"So basically you claim " look at all my comments. Flood, snow, drought, and fire comments are backed by state of California data.
This is the second time I have pointed out to you that I included links to data supporting my opinion.
As I said in my original response and the response that triggered you, it is a childhood opinion, based on facts that I have posted links to.
If you read all of my comments, drought is where California is heading.
Sigh… okay, literal Boomer.
(If you’re older than me, you’re a Boomer.)
Ah. But now that you said ‘78, you’re younger than me. Jesus, man. You’re a terrible Gen Xer.
Why terrible?
And half the fires are caused by a power company they aren't even progressive enough to properly regulate, let alone make state owned like PPE deserves.
Plus the high cost of Power, found this out 2000 - 02 living there. It must be a bit higher now.
But not having solar of various types would be a crime.
Had I put pipes throughout in the walls exposed - I'd never need a hot water heater or furnace. The attached garage was always 220F - and AC in the house set to 80F. Probably typical for most there in Palm Desert.
But at cool off of the night was my Fav'd moment to head to street fair Palm Springs. It's like chilly 48F, but the heat wave from earth is like heated bathroom tiles bathing you in warm air. One would have to pay thousands to sample this lovely effect. Cheers
I'm in California and have been for a while. It's ironic you're being downvoted, because you're right. California's climate is cyclical, the last several decades have been several years of drought followed by flooding. I will say that California being huge is probably part of the disconnect. Northern and southern California have very different climates, and a climate disaster in one part of California could easily be 500 miles away from the Californians hearing about it on the news.
I'm not sure why people are downplaying the fires though. I'll never forget the 911 call where the caller asked where to go to escape the fire and the dispatcher could only say "I'm sorry, I don't know."
California's just like everywhere else. Mostly, life is normal. Sometimes, bad stuff happens.
I live in TN and racist hillbillies scare me more than a fire. I'd move to Cali if I could afford it.
Northern California and Southern California are so different in environment and politics they could easily be 2 states.
California drought cycles are huge and extreme. The last 150 have been very wet, yet there was a 200 year drought about 500 years ago that was worse than what we are seeing today. As dry as the last 20 years have been, it needs to continue for another 100 years to get California back to its long-term normal.
I would still love to visit. 200 years is way past my expiration date.
Yeah I don't know man. It's pretty cool to be able to run on the beach 345 plus days a year
I don't know either. I lived in Florida for a while, 2 minute walk to the beach. The beach lost its magic and became just another place.
Right? It’s been SO ANNOYING this week that I haven’t been able to run on the beach during the rain. And then I think about that problem and I laugh.
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The literal definition of California is Hot Furnace. The 20th century was unusual.
Unusually wet.
Also See Texas: California waxes and waines droughts 4 always.
No. Not always. The last 150 years have been historically (as in fossil record) wet. 500 years or so ago, there was a 200-year drought that was more in line with the long-term record. The drought from 2000 to now is some of the driest years.
What does all this mean? My original opinion, developed as a child, is that California is either getting flooded, crushed by snow, or having drought fires is backed by state of California data, and the fossil record shows that California has since 800 swung between 200 year droughts and floods.
Yes, I would certainly like to visit. There is so much natural beauty. But judging by all the comments, Californians are easily offended and don't need facts to back their opinion.
Well, I'm not offended. I've lived in Cali 62 years.. from orange county to del Norte County. And places inbetween like fresno county. And I've seen drought, extreme drought to out of drought. Just my personal perspective. I've seen the mud slides from 1967 I've seen the fires in shasta county 2019 thru present. I've seen the big ice shove in Minnesota that's no fun . Hurricanes and tornadoes in Florida and Texas. Tornadoes in Missouri and Arkansas. Flooding, fires, drought in Colorado. So most places especially now with the climate changing there is really no place that doesn't have its fair share of devastation. Me, I do love the state of California. It's rivers, lakes, Forrest it's desert. It's magnificent ocean. It's progressive. It's high taxes, and out priced homes. It has the 7th largest economy in the world. It Can always be improved but, who's state couldn't? anyone who lives here who can't be loyal to California should move to somewhere they can love it everday.
I agree with you. Most areas have an undesirable aspect. Those that don't probably don't have desirable aspects, lol. I would love to visit. California has much to offer. My area is prone to oppressive heat and humidity, along with tornadoes.
Yeah, 80s kid, and in the midwest we were taught even then about yearly wildfires, mudslides, earthquakes, etc.
Part of me thought it would be exciting to visit. Try to outrun a fire by diving into a flooding river only to have the river vanish into an earthquake fault. Wait, that was the Land of the Lost.
I'm not offended. Spit your truth, you don't need uovotes
Yea but you know it won't happen that way. It'll be a gully washer and mess up more of CA if that's possible.
In SoCal, this is hardly a “gully washer.” It’s neither hard enough or deep enough.
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Hope you get enough and a little more. You folks so need it. Keeping my fingers crossed for ya.
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Yeh... Kind of sucks it is so much at one time.
What California needs is widespread rain catching to reverse desertification. Tearing up all those sealed parking lots would help. Reintroducing the beaver would be a great idea. Cities should dam sluices to slow runoff.
In the mean time damming any dry wash would help. I would recommend digging a ditch to catch runoff on the lower end of your property. Put the dirt you dug out downhill of the ditch.
A lot of people have forgotten that there was a huge lake in Southern California a century ago, Lake Tulare. Poor land stewardship has turned the former lake into a desert.
Rewilding rivers will certainly help. The effect on the LA river alone was significant in achieving better ground water recharge. We do need to take that further and undo a lot of the concrete channels constraining urban river beds. We also need to develop and employ more agricultural processes that work with nature and result in less dependency on irrigation and tillage. There needs to be state and federal level leadership on this to make stewardship of the land just as important to industrial farming as the bottom line profits.
California could learn a lot from Kenya.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMnQ-PZzlnQ&ab_channel=SandDamsWorldwide
Every slope in the state needs to be terraced.
What about the salmon they need fresh water?
I think op mentioning damming dry washes is meant to emulate beaver dams that essentially slow down the water during rain events and let it recharge ground water and the close to surface water table. Many dry washes used to be more perennial. Poorly planned human agricultural development lead to desertification.
Beavers and salmonids go hand in hand
Thursday is supposed to be the big dump.
At least another one is forming to the left of that giant.
itll be great to somehow contain it in the country..
dams... lots of dams
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It's important to understand "Average" weather for a region is a passing moment as it moves between extremes. Two areas can have an average of 70F, but one goes from 40F to 100F in a day, and the other goes from 65F to 75F.
10 years of Southwestern US weather is approximately six years of drought, two years of flood, and two years of decent. The drought ends with floods.
Here is a loop showing the anticyclone in action its from NOAA directly.
I don't remember this many 'atmospheric rivers' as a kid 🤔
Because the weathermen called them a Pineapple Express back then.
I do. In the 70s and 80s, this weather pattern was common. There was also no talk about the rains being unprecedented, indicating that while not necessarily normal, it was within the normal, expected range. That's just the normal for the west - flooding rain or drought with little in between.
Really? That's surprising. I grew up in the 90s & 00s. I must not remember them. It was rare to see rain here. I know we get the occasional downpour. But we've been getting record rainfall. It's sorta concerning. I've been watching the trees outside my house for years and they keep turning later and later. It seems like the climate itself is shifting, little by little. But that's just my observation.
Thanks for your response btw. It's enlightening. Maybe it's just a new phrase coined?
I don't know the actual stats for the 90s, but it did seem as though California didn't make the news so often by th 90s. But, by then, I was finishing school and newly married, so my attention was elsewhere. And CNN/HNN/Weather Channel were showing freak weather from around the world. 70s-80s, 20 years of rain. 90s 10 years of transition, 00s-10s 20 years of drought. Now the 20s transition back to rain for the 30s and 40s. Time will tell.
I just remember one huge flood in 1998? I know my parents survived a flood in 1992. Their entire apartment was flooded out. Could just be the news cycle. Breaking News has been perpetual since 9/11. It's kinda annoying and minimizes truly important news...
I really hope we're not screwed. California is so beautiful 😔 I wish we had more climatologists in this sub lol
Difference today is how it’s reported and social media. Historical data is sometimes overlooked. Doesn’t generate tv ratings or likes.
It’s also called The Pineapple Express.
"How did we. Get into this mess" 🎶
I think it was coined in 1994 and just started coming into use in the last 10 years or so by meteorologist.
The amount of computer modeling that has progressed since then is astounding, and pretty necessary to understand something so complex as climate
The average amount of precipitation shows no trend over the last 90 years. What is changing is there is more rain vs. snow in the Sierras.
Good news. The West needs the Pineapple Express.
Sac County reporting. Rain is really kicking our asses right now. Flood plains next to my work are 85-90% capacity and will likely flood over. Stockton flooded just recently. Last time we had rain like this was in 97/98. May possibly get worse if this keeps up.
EDIT: Also, potential for the I-5 to flood at Laguna Blvd. Shoulders are overflowing and within five feet of cresting onto the roadway.
my uncle sent me some photos of some very large trees that fell in east portal park. pretty crazy.
In Norcal, we have winter rains. It's winter now. And raining. Totally normal.
The Dollop 523 did a good episode a while back about the last time an atmospheric river hit California.
Come to upstate NY. It’s expensive, wages suck, it’s cold. It’s humid. Summer is short. On the upside, we get about 50 clear sky days every year!
Most of those days fall outside of the two months or so when the potential for comfortable weather actually exists. Late summer and, usually just late summer. But, when you get a nice day every few weeks during that special time of year…don’t let it trick you into lowering your dose of antidepressants. It won’t last.
Here in California it’s also expensive and wages also suck.
It’s hot. We had a week where it was 112+ all week this year. Sky’s are always clear. Because we never get rain. And when we do it’s all at once and floods.
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Any chance it'll get more water behind Hoover Dam?
will it do anything to refill the water table?
edit: I don’t really get the down votes, maybe it’s because I didn’t do enough of my own research? I am genuinely interested in how we could refill the aquifers. (most effectively by using less water duh)
Help fill reservoirs. Yes.
Fill aquifers. Likely not much.
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I hope this does not lead to another horrific wild fire season.
The severity of wild fires is a product of human behavior more than the weather. Preventing the light ones is what eventually causes the severe ones.
I was referring to the phenomenon of large torrential rain dirupting seed banks and causing massive blooms of dormant seed. Followed by extended draughts increasing the risk of large scale fires which is very much a clomate change related phenomenon. I am familiar with human fire over management and its results. This is a bit beyond that.
It will. And then there’ll be another drought. Then it’ll rain a bunch. Then another drought. Then fires, then rain again. Then another drought, followed by some fires, and then some rain. And we’ll be surprised by this. It’ll be on the news, naturally. Each year will have the worst blank of the decade. We’ll definitely click links associated with such predictable weather patterns. And we also won’t change a thing and be fine in the end. Miraculous?
> Each year will have the worst blank of the decade.
That can happen when things are getting progressively worse.
So comparatively, it’ll be worse next year. So I won’t really start caring until next year. Unless the year after that is supposed to be worse. In that case I’ll check in every 5 years and try to determine if things are to a point where people actually start watering their lawn less, signifying people that there actually is a water shortage and it’s not just a typical California summer.
People generally don't start caring about this kind of thing until it's too late.
Part of it is fear mongering. News reports on doom and gloom, exaggerating the situation, then it rains a bit and it’s fine until next year. It’s a ‘boy who cried wolf’ thing. People still water their lawns, agriculture survives, and golf courses stay green. So even though there was a shortage of water that season, it didn’t affect anyone meaningfully even though the media said it’s the worst drought in history with record breaking heat and blah blah blah. I feel like some objective honesty would go a long way to keep people mindful of things like this but new outlets need clicks so we get exaggeration and fear mongering. When the water company shuts our water off, or they start banning grass lawns, then I’ll start to worry; maybe even move somewhere else.
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NOW if they would just do something to save and conserve that water, maybe growing things would help the planet Naturally instead of building energy consuming machines that supposedly clean the air and cool it down.
Ever get the idea that maybe it is about MONEY and NOT science being applied properly?
N. Shadows
You do know California has dams and reservoirs?
Where are the dams and reservoirs along the coast, where most of the rain is falling? What new reservoirs and dams has California built in the last 20 years in response to their population explosion?
California hasn't built any serious new water storage capacity in FOURTY YEARS despite the fact that the state population has grown by more than 15 MILLION during that time.
California has dammed nearly every safe place to put dams.
Not true at all and not a limiting factor on water storage. There's a huge dam in the pipeline that they've been trying to get going for more than half a century at this point.
https://www.ktvu.com/news/a-new-mega-reservoir-in-final-planning-for-california
Beyond that, putting a dam in front of a valley isn't the only form of water reservoir. Sure, we don't have a lot of opportunities for mega-reservoirs left but that doesn't prevent us from building cisterns and other water storage and reclamation infrastructure across the state.
Sites isn't even on a river, so it'll require transport to and from the Site.
And your point is...?
Why are you trying to cover for the shockingly inept California government? There's literally no excuse for allowing the population to increase by MORE THAN THE TOTAL POPULATION OF PENNSYLVANIA and not adding any significant reservoir capacity.
YES BUT they never bothered to replace and reuse those places they drained off all the water from over the last 150 years, the Owens Valley comes to mind and their solution's seem to be to drain other states of their resources and thus the march towards more deserts is on.
and they call being the dumping grounds of others "Population Control" and all populations whether animal, vegetable or human require the same resources to exist and survive.
N. Shadows
Agreed. California has ignored their infrastructure for half a century now while population has exploded. It's no wonder our reservoirs all get almost totally drained every year when we haven't bothered to build new storage capacity to match population growth.
The issue has been ongoing since the 50's and 60's, but the long history of water rights state responsibilities and ownership by private companies go back to the founding.
Companies were never intended to be allowed to pollute the water systems as they did, and Farmers know better when they do have the support needed to do things properly.
BOTH are base needs of a society PERIOD, and that sis why the term "Nature and Natures God" was used.
N. Shadows
sifuyee t1_j30mbwn wrote
As a recipient of some of this water, I hope it keeps coming! We do desperately need it in the SW US.