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IRMacGuyver t1_j7s26ir wrote

The NFL doesn't employ players. The NFL has around 100 employees and is listed as a small business.


CHROME-THE-F-UP t1_j7scxuy wrote

Small business making a humble profit right?


Tony2Punch t1_j7uygjl wrote

The Teams are the business making hand over Fist, the NFL organizes the broadcasting deals and rules ya know


IRMacGuyver t1_j81hggd wrote

Remember most the real money comes from merchandising rights. They don't even have to make anything they just get paid by people who want to use their logo/name.


DarthRisk t1_j7sfu9d wrote

This tracks. My sister worked there in the mid-2010's and when I'd go to the studio you wouldn't know it was the NFL by the size of the place as it wasn't very large. I'd assume a lot of their employees that do the gameday stuff at stadiums (photographers and such) are independent contractors.


joelluber t1_j7swrhu wrote

Even if they're not independent contractors, they would be employees of the individual teams not the NFL.


randy24681012 t1_j7te6gd wrote

Or even just employees of the stadium


joelluber t1_j7tj2un wrote

Realistically, a combination of team employees, venue employees, and employees of various subcontractors like Aramark and Allied Universal.


Reading_Rainboner t1_j7ul9de wrote

Even the broadcast crew probably has 2-3 different payrolls going on


ElDeguello66 t1_j7uthhy wrote

Many, many, freelancers. Most of the steadicam and jib operators you see in the periphery of a sporting event own and operate those rigs, or work for very small specialized outfits that do.


Reading_Rainboner t1_j7uua0r wrote

Yep. And the core crew gets traveled in on corporate payroll, the skycam is on one, local professional crew is on a different one and then, the less skilled laborers are on their own one.

Saves companies assloads of money and none of these positions get benefits like they did 40 years ago when they had to be hired on.


joelluber t1_j7w830c wrote

GameDay finds local crew by putting up fliers in the theatre, film, and journalism departments at the schools they visit. Might be different if the venue has an IATSE contact, though.


IRMacGuyver t1_j81ey8i wrote

I worked at a stadium. I worked for a contractor and was not directly employed by the team. In fact only a few of the teams even own their own stadium. They just lease them most of the time. Even then the ones that are owned "by the team" are mostly owned by the owner of the team and held as separate business entities from the team itself so even those aren't owned by the team.


BadAtExisting t1_j7t6wwc wrote

Can confirm. Independent contractors. Some week to week, some for the entire season depending on the specific job. Payed by the team in the city they work in (locals are hired for all but the talking head jobs)

ETA: I work in broadcast adjacent scripted TV/film but have friends who do sports broadcasting. As it would turn out, if you want to travel, golf is where it’s at. Not just anyone can find a golf ball hit off the tee with a super long lens and keep it in frame (even when jumping from one camera to the next it’s tough). A good friend of mine is a NFL camera operator for Tampa Bay Buccaneers home games


XerAlix t1_j7tu9m2 wrote

Ah yes good old independent contractors, apparently not exclusive to pro wrestling but just as carny


BadAtExisting t1_j7vhx98 wrote

I mean, it’s the nature of the beast. When I’m working on a show, I’m an employee of that production company until the movie or season is over (4-6 months for a full run) then I’m on to find the next one. Many of us who work in these careers, that’s one of the perks of the job. I have the freedom to do a TV show or a movie or a commercial or a music video. I run with several circles of guys but rarely do I have the same coworkers from show to show. I like that, but it’s absolutely not for everyone


jw8815 t1_j7uer0m wrote

NFL Films isn't the NFL, they are a media company that came to agreement to license the NFL for their company. The NFL is really just an arbitrator for a group of companies that work together.


Capt-Crap1corn t1_j7sb5xs wrote

Whoa seriously?


IsNotACleverMan t1_j7sot0i wrote

Yes. The NFL is a trade association of the various teams, each of which is its own business entity and operates separately, including paying taxes separately. The NFL just coordinates the activities of the various teams.


Frumundahs4men t1_j7snre0 wrote

Please tell me they didn't get approved for some PPP loan


IRMacGuyver t1_j81fn6w wrote

>PPP loan

They probably qualify but I don't know how you'd look it up. I know Tom Brady got one somehow. But remember each team is a separate company and probably has less than 200 employees. Hell maybe less than that, aren't some players contractors not actual employees?


PlayLizards t1_j7st5u8 wrote

I don’t know if this is still true but I’m pretty sure they were a “non-profit” not that long ago.


IRMacGuyver t1_j81g4pp wrote

Nonprofits can be small businesses. They aren't mutually exclusive terms.


MachoManRandySavge t1_j7swmwm wrote

No they were never a non profit, and will never be one. The reason why: If they were a non profit they would need to disclose their yearly income publicly, which they don't want anyone knowing


gunswordfist t1_j7smu25 wrote

Any chance that you're a Guyver fan?


IRMacGuyver t1_j81gou2 wrote

Ever since I first saw the live action movie on scifi channel and then found out about the anime in the 90s. People often think I spelled my name wrong but they just don't get the three references embedded in it.


gunswordfist t1_j81gvtd wrote



IRMacGuyver t1_j81h1s5 wrote

IR Baboon, MacGyver, The Guyver. I wanted to find a name that I would never have to change or add numbers to in order to create an account. It's worked so far and no one's stolen it. Been using it since 1998 and the AOLIM days.


predictingzepast t1_j7qzqic wrote

The NFL needs to lose its charity exemption, purposly drags its feet thru red tape they put out, take a large portion of events it supports (at least up til recently) such as cancer research and the military, then uses pressure to force cities to 'loan' money for new stadiums without ever planning to pay back..


number1stumbler t1_j7r4og1 wrote

Too late, they gave up tax exempt status and will take advantage of the fact that as a private company, they can now keep all their affairs private:


predictingzepast t1_j7r9naf wrote

I'm really out of the loop, but knowing the NFL intentionally gave up tax exempt status and is paying 10mil in taxes on 10billion a year revenue, that doesn't make me feel much better..


P1mpathinor t1_j7reaz0 wrote

Nearly all of the profit just gets passed on to the individual teams, who pay their own taxes on it.


mikebailey t1_j7s3esl wrote

Laughs in Dan Snyder


HenryKushinger t1_j7vf1jr wrote

What's the voice behind Master Shake and Granny Squid have to do with the NFL?


kingjoey52a t1_j7ssjqa wrote

The NFL only pays that much in taxes but half that revenue goes to players (and is taxed) and the other half to the teams (and is taxed). The league was never meant to make money, it’s basically the collective bargaining group for the teams that make money.

Edit: and I don’t think they were ever a charity, just a non profit because all their “profit” goes to the teams.


ptabs226 t1_j7slwua wrote

NFL needs to lose its antitrust exemption

>That’s because back in the early 1960s, Congress gave the league an exemption to federal antitrust laws, permitting all of the individual teams to act as a single entity when negotiating TV contracts. By bargaining together, the owners have been able to land dramatically more lucrative broadcasting deals. At the time it was drafted, the antitrust exemption very well may have been a benefit to the public, because it required that broadcasters air every team’s games in their home markets, says antitrust economist Andy Schwarz. But subsequent advances in technology, Schwarz says, have made it “an obsolete exemption.”


More info


washingtonpost OP t1_j7qvhbd wrote

From reporter Will Hobson:

Pressured by Congress, the league and its union promised reforms years ago. But a Washington Post investigation shows a system still stacked against players left broken by football.

The 2022 NFL season will be remembered, in part, for two shocking scenes that renewed focus on the damage America’s most popular sport inflicts on its players. One was the sight of Miami Dolphins quarterback Tua Tagovailoa writhing on the field after suffering his second concussion in five days, briefly bringing a Thursday Night Football game to a halt. The other was Buffalo Bills safety Damar Hamlin collapsing with a cardiac arrest, ending a Monday Night Football game and briefly bringing the sport to a standstill.

Both events brought swift public responses from the NFL and the NFL Players Association, professing their concern for the health and safety of the league’s players.

But beyond the glare of national television, debilitated former NFL players continue to encounter a benefit plan, jointly managed by the league and union, that fights aggressively to deny claims and repeatedly shirks legal obligations to fairly review cases, a Washington Post investigation found.

Over the past six months, The Post reviewed thousands of pages of medical records, denial letters and other plan documents produced in lawsuits since 2008, the year after former players went to Congress to complain of onerous red tape, biased doctors and a rigged claims process. League and union officials disputed those allegations but promised reforms.

In the 15 years since, though, eight players have successfully sued the league’s plan, triggering tense and protracted legal fights that have revealed repeated instances in which the NFL’s plan seized on technicalities, ignored medical evidence and flouted federal judges to justify denying claims.

The NFL declined to make any official available for an interview. In a statement, the league dismissed the plan’s losses in court as a small fraction of the thousands of cases it has handled. And even in cases where federal judges ruled the plan wrongly denied a claim, the NFL asserted, the judges were wrong.

“There have been roughly 10,000 claims considered since 2008,” wrote league spokesman Brian McCarthy. “Even if those less than a dozen cases were improperly decided — and they were not — the less than one dozen cases hardly amount to a pattern.”

The NFL and the union, NFLPA, both emphasized the sum the plan pays out to disabled retirees: more than $320 million last year, a substantial increase from the $20 million the plan told Congress it was paying out in 2007.

The NFL’s plan is unique, making it difficult to compare its record in the courts to peers. A typical disability insurer manages plans for many companies, covering millions more customers than the NFL plan. But playing in the NFL is also far more likely to leave players with potentially disabling injuries than perhaps any other job in America, increasing the likelihood for lawsuits.

Several experienced disability attorneys who have battled the NFL’s plan in court, in interviews, said the league’s plan stands apart in how vociferously it fights claims. And they expressed outrage that the NFL maintains every judge who has ruled against the plan was mistaken.

Read more about our investigation into these lawsuits here, and skip the paywall with email registration:


c0wpig t1_j7so28c wrote

> “There have been roughly 10,000 claims considered since 2008,” wrote league spokesman Brian McCarthy. “Even if those less than a dozen cases were improperly decided — and they were not — the less than one dozen cases hardly amount to a pattern.”

This seems like a pretty brazen statement. Shouldn't a single case be cause for serious concern? Shouldn't the standard be never improperly rejecting legitimate healthcare claims?


wrongbutt_longbutt t1_j7spi9t wrote

It's like the state saying they've only wrongly executed a few innocent people.


jacobobb t1_j7ubtt2 wrote

Point taken, but they would say they have only executed people found guilty. That includes people wrongfully found guilty.


FellKnight t1_j7vuyf1 wrote

and that's kind of the reason why most scholars are against capital punishment. You can't take it back once you kill someone.

In theory, in a perfect world where you can be 100% certain of guilt, I don't have a problem with capital punishment, but we do not live in that world, and as such, I have to be against capital punishment.


coronavirusrex69 t1_j7v5ahd wrote

can the players not buy insurance? and their contracts account for the risk and short shelf life that is assumed in the league. and at least at my job, once i'm no longer employed by them, I don't have any sort of benefit plan? and i don't make millions a year.

i get it that it's sad, but nobody is going into the NFL thinking it's not going to take a toll on their body.


PangwinAndTertle t1_j7sz9hg wrote

I very well could be wrong, but I read that as of the 10,000 cases submitted, only 12 were denied. Which would absolutely “hardly amount to a pattern.” If its 10,000 cases denied, which thinking more about it, is probably the correct understanding, I agree with you we should never be improperly rejecting legitimate healthcare claims. In fact, I’d argue the approval process should be done by a neutral, third party.


314159265358979326 t1_j7tasy9 wrote

12 were decided in court to have been improperly denied by the plan. It doesn't say how many of the 10,000 were decided in favour of the player, but surely thousands of them were denied that didn't successfully sue.


skaterrj t1_j7uax6w wrote

In addition to what /u/314159265358979326 said, note that the NFL plan said that the judge in each of those cases was wrong. The sheer arrogance makes me even more suspicious of this plan - there's no sense of, "Hey, maybe we did get it wrong this time, and we should think about that."

Ever read Grisham's "The Rainmaker"? The movie was good, but the book was much, much better. In the book, the insurance company basically has a plan that they will reject every claim and then set up a loop between underwriting and claims so that no claim was ever paid. Someone dies after not receiving a treatment that should have been covered, which prompts the lawsuit.

While that's fiction, there's no doubt in my mind that there's some root in fact in it. There's no question that insurance companies make more money when they deny claims, so it's in their interest to do so, which automatically makes them biased against people filing claims.


coronavirusrex69 t1_j7v5tw0 wrote

> there's no sense of, "Hey, maybe we did get it wrong this time, and we should think about that."

do many companies think like this? I've had tons of wrongfully denied claims via insurance and yet they still deny claims as much as they can. most of the time i don't even know what it means or why it was denied or it's just "because we said so," and so I have to pay. Companies are not in the business of giving things away, and if they were suddenly approving claims without trying to deny them first, they would make less profit.


skaterrj t1_j7ve3kb wrote

Let me put it this way - I can't remember the last time my insurance (medical, dental, vision, Flexible Spending Account) denied a claim. Obviously these are more like traditional requests (checkups, pain that isn't going away, dental cleanings, etc.), but they definitely don't seem to have a "deny first" policy in my experience.


coronavirusrex69 t1_j7vian4 wrote

tbh without going into details of my life, that's really great for you. IMO, we should have nationalized healthcare/insurance so that everyone can have that same luxury. until rich NFL players start arguing for me to have the same healthcare as them, i'm not going to feel bad about millionaires who had to work for a few years to retire not having the benefits they feel they deserve.


skaterrj t1_j7vj9c7 wrote

Part of the problem here is that many of them aren't millionaires. The average career span in the NFL is four years, and most of them do not get signed to those multi-million dollar contracts we're always hearing about. Even if they come out of it with perfect health, most of them are going to have to continue to work to survive the rest of their lives.

Also, I ranted about our health care system elsewhere in this thread so don't go assuming that I think the current system is fine.

Finally, your original comment was:

> do many companies think like this?

And I responded that my health care insurance rarely decline claims. You asked, I answered. Maybe you've had a different experience, and that's legit, too, but then I'm not sure why you asked the original question, which was in response to the NFL plan declining a lot of seemingly legit claims.


coronavirusrex69 t1_j7vl4ny wrote

>Part of the problem here is that many of them aren't millionaires. The average career span in the NFL is four years, and most of them do not get signed to those multi-million dollar contracts we're always hearing about.

"rookies with zero years of service will earn a minimum salary of $705,000."

median individual income in the US in 2022 was $46k, likely with bad/no benefits at that kind of salary, likely with a work schedule/environment that is going to increase long term health issues. in two years, an NFL player on the literal minimum salary possible grosses more than what the median worker makes in 30 years.

>And I responded that my health care insurance rarely decline claims. You asked, I answered. Maybe you've had a different experience, and that's legit, too, but then I'm not sure why you asked the original question, which was in response to the NFL plan declining a lot of seemingly legit claims.

Because every claim denied increases profits, and insurance companies are businesses? I get that you haven't had any claims denied, but the more claims they successfully deny, the further they go towards accomplishing their goal. as long as healthcare/insurance stays a for profit system, this will be the case.

NFL players should use their platform to promote nationalized healthcare/insurance programs if they want my sympathy. i'm not arguing that no claims get denied unfairly, i'm arguing "duh, why wouldn't they deny every claim they can?" that's how they make money.


skaterrj t1_j7vmycj wrote

> median individual income in the US in 2022 was $46k, likely with bad/no benefits at that kind of salary, likely with a work schedule/environment that is going to increase long term health issues. in two years, an NFL player on the literal minimum salary possible grosses more than what the median worker makes in 30 years.

You don't have sympathy for them, okay, fine. Does that mean they should get screwed by the NFL plan that they thought provided them coverage? No, of course not. No one should be screwed by health insurance, it doesn't matter how much they make.

> i'm arguing "duh, why wouldn't they deny every claim they can?" that's how they make money.

I made that argument as well, in the first comment of mine you replied to. I'll quote it since you seem to have missed it:

> There's no question that insurance companies make more money when they deny claims, so it's in their interest to do so, which automatically makes them biased against people filing claims.


coronavirusrex69 t1_j7vos91 wrote

i guess we're not disagreeing then we're just talking in circles on something we agree about.

>You don't have sympathy for them, okay, fine. Does that mean they should get screwed by the NFL plan that they thought provided them coverage? No, of course not.

i guess i just don't see it as getting screwed because they are participating in the system and they know how the system works. if i go to a car dealership and the guy blows a bunch of fluff up my ass and i overpay, did i get screwed? or did i participate in an activity that is designed to exploit me for my resources?

if i go play roulette and put all of my life savings on 00 and it hits any other number, did I get screwed? if i go kick a venomous snake and get bit, screwed? if i go drink and drive and get pulled over, did i get screwed?

did anyone put a gun to these guys heads and force them to playing the NFL? because maybe i'm missing that part.


skaterrj t1_j7vqss3 wrote

None of those examples you gave compare to paying for health insurance and believing you are covered, then discovering it's useless. This one is closest:

> i guess i just don't see it as getting screwed because they are participating in the system and they know how the system works. if i go to a car dealership and the guy blows a bunch of fluff up my ass and i overpay, did i get screwed? or did i participate in an activity that is designed to exploit me for my resources?

If your employer had you paying into a health care plan then you later discovered it was smoke and mirrors, you would be screwed, yes. How in the world would that be your fault?

You're blaming the victims.


coronavirusrex69 t1_j7vt0ln wrote

>believing you are covered, then discovering it's useless.

i can believe that i'm a snake whisperer. it doesn't mean it's true.

>If your employer had you paying into a health care plan then you later discovered it was smoke and mirrors, you would be screwed, yes. How in the world would that be your fault?

my brother in christ, I do pay into my employers health care plan and it is smoke and mirrors. this isn't me being screwed or anything. this is me living in America where health insurance is a profit driven business. Also, my employer health care plan doesn't cover me once I'm no longer employed by them.

there are no victims. this is the system that we live by in the US. i'm not sure if you're here or what, but we aren't the victims. we vote for the people who design these laws. there were major presidential candidates (well, one) that ran on universal healthcare, and the US overwhelmingly voted for the guy who specifically said he would VETO any universal healthcare bill. this is the system, by design, not a surprise.

you're acting like you see an advertisement that says "Best pizza on the planet!" and feel screwed when it's, shockingly, not the best pizza you have ever tasted. saying stuff like your health matters to us and blah blah is marketing - ie smoke and mirrors, and yes, that is how the US health system is run... if you believe everything you read in an advertisement, you are going to have a bad time here.


Wisdomlost t1_j7v6i6b wrote

10k claims but by how many people. If a part of the red tape their talking about is every single issue needs to be a new claim then 1 person could rack up hundreds of claims in a year. I find it hard to believe there are 10k retired NFL players all making unique claims.


Addictd2Justice t1_j7w1vaz wrote

It also misses the point and directs you to a misleading statistic (less than a dozen out of 10,000).

That statistic does not address the issue of the insurer’s conduct in specific cases. For example, a case where they fought and fought against a good claim and ultimately caved would fall into one of the 10,000.


actibus_consequatur t1_j7tdfr8 wrote

On the brighter flipside, is disabled pitcher Matt LaChappa:

In 1996, while warming up in the bullpen to enter what would have been the first game of his season as a relief pitcher, LaChappa collapsed and suffered a heart attack. The Quakes athletic trainer performed CPR on LaChappa for 20 minutes until he was taken to a local hospital. At the hospital, he suffered a second heart attack. LaChappa survived, but suffered brain damage from the lack of oxygen and is mostly confined to a wheelchair and has difficulty moving and speaking. Since the incident, the Padres organization has signed him yearly to a basic Minor League contract so that he can maintain his health insurance.


eric2332 t1_j7tl2qw wrote

I'm surprised that's necessary. The heart attack occurred while he was working and likely at least partly as a consequence of his work. Shouldn't his care be covered under routine workplace insurance?


actibus_consequatur t1_j7tseu3 wrote

The wiki article doesn't explain, but the article it references does:

“What happened,” says Priscilla Oppenheimer, the Padres’ director of minor-league operations, “is that he had a virus around his heart. He’d just undergone a physical, too, but something like that can only be picked up on an ecocardiogram.”

I'm NAL, but with the presence of the virus, I'd think both workplace insurance and workers' comp would've been very combative over the claim, especially since it happened while he was only warming up which is far less stressful than actual gameplay. His family could (and maybe did) fight and so they are possibly getting some additional income from it, but I'm not sure how well the protections and such were almost 30 years ago.

Also, on top of the Padres still employing him, they apparently released him from having to repeat the bonus he got for the contract he couldn't fulfill, so that's pretty decent too.


confirmd_am_engineer t1_j7tz5ea wrote

Not necessarily. You can still suffer personal medical issues while at work. In order to be work-related you would need to prove that your job caused the heart issue. For someone like Demar Hamlin that’s pretty easy, but for many others it’s not so cut and dried.

This happens a lot in other industries too. I actually had an employee with suspected cardiac issues at work yesterday. They were taken offsite to a hospital. It’s been filed as a personal medical issue.


coronavirusrex69 t1_j7v60zw wrote

most people who have heart attacks at work are covered forever via insurance? i don't think that's how it works, but maybe i'm wrong??


brett1081 t1_j7s6b07 wrote

Based on the current data it seems like every player is leaving the game with some form of CTE. It’s to the point that I have become a fan of the real football(played with feet) and really disconnected from the NFL. The commercials dragging the games out for 4 hours made it easier as well. Watching a EPL match where they play through the whole half and breaks only happen when they leave the field makes for a great viewing experience.


HeLooks2Muuuch t1_j7sbu44 wrote

I’m with ya 100% - in the last year and a half I’ve completely changed my sports viewing interests. After 20+ years of intensely following the NFL as an adult, I didn’t even watch every game my team played this year and hardly watched any games involving other teams.


James32015 t1_j7sfujv wrote

Same bro. All the injuries make it tough to watch. What team do you support?


brett1081 t1_j7sgkvr wrote

I’ve got a buddy who is from Leicester so I started cheering for them. Then they won the league and things were great. Now we are in a relegation fight and I get to experience a different emotion. But Tete looks great!


AlanFromRochester t1_j7skz37 wrote

Everton is my team in that football, relegation fights can be a little too interesting. ;)

While that's about the business model rather than the sport itself, it does make late season games for poorly performing teams still relevant instead of "we aren't making the playoffs so F it". While a draft is good for parity, tanking is perverse.

The other football could use a salary cap though, another parity measure, that avoids Man City type financial shenanigans.


Raisin_Bomber t1_j7u8ph0 wrote

Who also just were dumped on over 100 league financial doping charges


AlanFromRochester t1_j7sk7le wrote

I've developed a taste for the other football partly as still on during the NFL offseason, partly as an alternative to the physical abuse

The ordinary breaks between plays in gridiron don't bother me too much but sometimes it gets dragged out well beyond that.


sktwocan t1_j7t4ebb wrote

Yeah anybody who has any issues with the NFL and how it’s run should simply stop watching and supporting it


Jrdirtbike114 t1_j7sh7l5 wrote

I only pirate watch Chiefs games because I'm a lifelong fan and we now have Patrick Mahomes. If it weren't for him, I think I'd have quit watching a few years ago. The game has turned into a snooze fest/advertisement vehicle and the sport of football is clearly an afterthought, not to mention the ethics of it all. Ugh


NOT____RICK t1_j7sz7jq wrote

Rugby is the same way and it’s so much more enjoyable to watch than the nfl.


Trying_To_Adult_101 t1_j7twdud wrote

I was die hard and have not watched since they went white nationalist on my boy Kap.


theneedfull t1_j7u296b wrote

I have no clue if there are studies on this, but I would think that CTE has to be a problem in soccer as well. Taking a header from a ball kicked like 80 yards HAS to do something to the brain. I'm guessing that it hasn't been studied as extensively as football, which really started talking about it recently.


brett1081 t1_j7ukeeb wrote

I believe it is. But the CU-Boulder study in football players from s CTE in over 90%. It’s crazy. But your not wrong, soccer is not a perfect sport for minimizing head injuries. Very few appear to be.


[deleted] t1_j7sf6lg wrote



brett1081 t1_j7sfvso wrote

This is like the most Reddit reply I’ve seen all day. Congrats


MrLoadin t1_j7sgsg2 wrote

They are referencing calcio storico, which is a renaissance era sport revived in the 1930s in Italy, and is still played in Florence.

*also prolly causes more brain damage than modern NFL, for less money.


[deleted] t1_j7sjjjy wrote

Yeah love a good 1-0 soccer match. 90 minutes of passing the ball around


Ironlungs_ t1_j7tbgaq wrote

as apposed to watching NFL for 3 hours with 12 minutes of actual sport being played.. the rest just ads and teams switching around

If you try call a sport boring because you don’t like it, maybe try breaking down (presumably) your own sport first.


Wolpertinger77 t1_j7tdadz wrote

People balk at that 12 minute figure, but it’s true (actually just over 11 minutes of actual action per game). 3 hours of advertising and grown men circlejerking…it’s a strange ritual to obsess over.


Ironlungs_ t1_j7tdmbu wrote

It truly is. But hey - I tried to have an actual conversation/discussion about liking different sports but he just downvoted because he doesn’t agree lmfao.


razor_eddie t1_j7skc79 wrote

Which is an improvement from a 4 hour committee meeting, punctuated with violence.


amurica1138 t1_j7s92z6 wrote

This is why I stopped supporting a team and watching games. When junior seau took his own life that was it for me. The NFL truly is a blood sport.


bahnzo t1_j7tcpbf wrote

Seau was it for me too. I lived in San Diego for the 90's and there was no more beloved player. Him committing suicide was the last straw.


Wolpertinger77 t1_j7tdkjq wrote

Yo, me too. Was never a fan of his teams but loved watching him play. His death made me look at the whole sport differently. Then, as I recall in short order there was the bullshit with Ray Rice, and then Kaepernick. And that was it for me. Haven’t watched a game since 2015 and I don’t miss it at all.


HaikuBotStalksMe t1_j7thfr6 wrote

Haven't watched a game since 1989. Not because I'm political or anything. It's just so fucking boring.


bahnzo t1_j7tcuhe wrote

The NFL has the worst player union, period. No guaranteed contracts is enough to know that. The fact you'll hear players say it's healthy for the game shows how brainwashed they are.


LongIslandLAG t1_j7vibaf wrote

The problem is that they're not willing to miss games like other sports have. In 2011, they caved right after the HOF game was cancelled. In 2020, I can understand why they'd agree quickly with the oncoming pandemic, but they could've done a shorter-term deal.


rochvegas5 t1_j7wl2sb wrote

If they don’t play they don’t get paid


LongIslandLAG t1_j7y1yrp wrote

Obviously, but the owners have all the leverage as long as players aren't willing to miss a paycheck, so the players will never get the long-term win.


AngieGreg t1_j7rsak3 wrote

Unfortunately this has been an ongoing issue that has been in place since the 70's. The owners have always side stepped this issue, because if they face it head-on there's no way to avoid that the players activity while playing football for their team caused said long-term injuries.

What people don't realize is that the Owners have taken a very cold perspective on this issue, and it has a level of merit in some ways. What the Owners are not saying is that they believe the Player was compensated in such a manner that they should easily have the funds to cover their Medical Issues. However, even though they were paid very well during their time playing for their respective Teams that they, the Owners, should now be responsible for their Long-Term Health for the rest of their Life's as well.

The true ugly reality is that it is unfortunate that so many Ex-Players have squandered their Money over time, and end up Broke 5-10 years after playing professional Football. Therefore, is it really the responsibility of the Owners to provide Life-Time Health coverage for each and every player that ever played for each team? What company do you know that does that...None.


brett1081 t1_j7s7fwo wrote

I don’t know of a single industry that could give their employees a chronic disorder at over a 90% rate and not be bankrupt from class action lawsuits.


SignorJC t1_j7t4lez wrote

The real travesty here is how shitty the NFPLA is at protecting non-stars.


elScroggins t1_j7takqb wrote

I’ve known a few guys who played in the league for a time. Their experience made me realize just how many players enter and exit the NFL within 3-5 years… And just how few make a career out of playing, ultimately departing the league after a short time with limited career options.

Given the real cost of medical care, the ~$2m they take home in five years (or less, after taxes, agent fee, etc.), is really underwhelming if any significant portion goes to their own healthcare. Plus, as others have mentioned, these young athletes are typically not known for their disciplined saving and frugal lifestyle.

Lastly, because every player exits the league with some degree of CTE, medical attention to it’s effects shouldn’t be based on a claim to be approved or denied. It should be a guaranteed right long after retirement.

We’ve all seen the physics behind a single NFL hit. There is no morally justifiable way to pretend these athletes are not going to experience trauma while on the job. Permanent access to care should be part of their contract, and should protect them even after they stop working in such a dangerous field.


AngieGreg t1_j7uv9q4 wrote

With respects to your comments, you have to understand that there is a measure of Voluntary Participation when it comes to being a Professional Athlete of any distinction. Being a Professional Athlete is not the same as being a Fire Fighter or a Police Officer. While both have inherent possibilities for injury, by signing up to be a Fire Fighter or Police Officer you are accepting the very high possibility that you may become injured, but that is a JOB. However, there are many Professional Athletes that don't get injured at all. With the advent of the public knowledge of the possibility of CTE for NFL Athletes, it has been exacerbated by the ongoing perception that EVERY NFL Player has CTE when they retire. That perception is incorrect and is grossly misrepresented by public perception.

What the public should think of a Professional Athlete should be the same as an Independent Contractor, who is on a limited contract with a particular company. In so doing, the responsibility to manage and cover your Capital, Assets, Retirement, Taxes, & Healthcare are solely the responsibility of the individual's in question. As much as it would be cool for the Owners of the NFL to provide Life-Long Healthcare for the retired players, BUT one cannot overlook the weight of the Responsibility of caring for your own Money, Assets, Taxes, & Healthcare yourself prior to getting to the necessity for the NFL to pay for your healthcare in the first place.


elScroggins t1_j7wcnew wrote

It is a fair argument to say that professional athletes should not be entitled to long term care by the league or their teams. I disagree, personally, but it is a legitimate argument to make.

From my personal experience however, I believe you underestimate the level of injuries sustained by professional athletes in the NFL. I played in college, and by that time, most football players have been in the game for over 10 years. The amount of time spent in physical therapy, especially toward the end of the season, is often equal to time spent on the field in practice. These guys leave the trainer with sometimes 10 ice bags attached, and they cant even buy a beer yet. I believe it is completely accurate to say that with the very rare exception every player leaves the sport with some level of CTE. Again, this is only my personal observation, but I count myself among those who have been concussed countless times while playing football.

Lastly, I don’t fully agree that first responders is an apples-to-apples comparison. The NFL and its franchises are massively profitable. For the players, this was often their only shot at leaving a tough upbringing, whereas team owners were frequently wealthy to a degree. They are certainly making a huge profit compared to even their biggest players, and all without potential body harm.

Individual contractors are not courted out of high school with dreams of grandor, nor are they made into celebrities. Athletes are not pushed to study finance, they are pushed to get stronger and faster. Their well being beyond their skill on the field is not of concern to the franchises who benefit from their effort - and this is where i find a moral disconnect.

The right thing to do would be to protect their health during and after their time in the NFL.


AngieGreg t1_j7wexso wrote

Once again you have some very solid points.

However, luckily we both played Football for a significant period of time. That is why our perspectives are somewhat similar, even though we don't agree with each other 100%. I do not subscribe that CTE is a blanket issue around the entire NFL. High impact situations are apart of the sport, and they are now tackling in a manner that is SO WRONG that when they do impact with their heads naturally, their neck strength is so poor that a concussion is the end result, but that's an entirely different discussion.

I see we will likely not agree on that issue, but at least we are somewhat closer on the perspective that Professional Athletes are Independent Contractors, and should approach their careers accordingly.

Thank you for taking the time to discuss this matter in detail, and sharing your opinion intelligently. It was great meeting you, and I wish you all the best in All that you do, and shall the Sun shine on you and your Family for an eternity.

God Bless.


elScroggins t1_j7wgl3t wrote

Good game, my friend! May your beers be ice cold this Sunday. Cheers.


Sadatori t1_j7swcxr wrote

There are plenty of arguments about how the owners/teams/NFL itself are more in the wrong vs players who can't manage their money. But one of the biggest base issues here is that this is another massive issue that could be fixed by not having a privatized for profit health system


mrmrmrj t1_j7sh75z wrote

To claim that NFL players do not understand the risks at this point is to be completely disingenuous. Every player is taking a clear and obvious gamble and doing it consciously and willingly.


Sadatori t1_j7swi07 wrote

Okay....that doesn't make what the teams/league/union are doing okay either.


lastskudbook t1_j7tjk86 wrote

“Second concussion in 5 days” Should have been sat at home in a dimly lit room for 3 weeks after the first as a starting point.


PinkPicklePete t1_j7semcz wrote

I think if a disabled person was able to make the team then they deserve to be paid!


Jgabes625 t1_j7t0qwc wrote

Although the topic for the song Disposable Heroes by Metallica is about soldiers returning home from war, the title was inspired by a term used by a narrator for a documentary about NFL players being disregarded after putting their bodies in harms way weekly with no regard for their health.


reddideridoo t1_j7t380l wrote

Isn‘t the NFL all about money? They don‘t give a flying bag of dicks about former players health. Attention is only projected once it can garner good pr.


PF4LFE t1_j7sl1da wrote

Is the NFL simply a dollar game whereby one’s brain cells are exchanged for the Benjis? Humans love watching Brains get beaten, strange, a relic of our savage past….


chefschocker81 t1_j7t4woo wrote

Sounds like the players need Matt “The Rainmaker” Damon on the case.

The NFL is the US FIFA. Corrupt and run like the mafia.


Decepticow t1_j7tcfp1 wrote

Ayy, the mafia looks after its own. This here is more akin to human rights and decency norm violations.


chefschocker81 t1_j7u2uho wrote

Then explain Deshaun Watson and how that’s not like the mafia.


Riversntallbuildings t1_j7txrvm wrote

This is simply one more reason why healthcare needs to be decoupled from employers.


Legitimate-Echo-7651 t1_j7vn2po wrote

Who could’ve guessed a multibillion dollar franchise would treat people poorly


DrummerSteve t1_j7u9wes wrote

The NFL makes more money than God they shouldn’t be NOT paying anyone


shottem t1_j7swmp5 wrote

Nothing new. We all know this. The NFL is like religion and the believers won't let you kill it.


FlashyPsychology7044 t1_j7url81 wrote

Football is nothing more then a big capital corporation like Amazon greedy little f s


Fatefire t1_j7ut1cs wrote

The NFL is fucking evil . It rarely cares about the human cost of the sport wether it is physical like the last two injury’s or mental with the repeat head injures that cause their players to have a terrible quality of life or become monsters that beat their wives and girlfriends.

We should really force them to take better care or their player . Honestly though fuck football it’s not worth the entertainment value knowing the meat grinder these men have to go though


[deleted] t1_j7uyvjr wrote

They also don't pay me. Can I sue?


toiletwindowsink t1_j7v1vt5 wrote

NFL corporate is full of scum. When they call u to license something the only thing they want is cheap. They make the studios look like 1969’s Elton John. When I quoted my price the dude actually said to me my quote was to high and I needed this because my clients career was in the toilet and any association with the NFL would increase his visibility. I said, well his visibility must still be strong enough for the NFL to call? He then went full on NFL and said they were considering many people and we would loose out. I said fine, have a good day. He called back the next day and took my deal. He never ever communicated with me again. It was all attorneys from then on. They think they are so fukin special. It’s not just the NFL. It’s the NBA, MLB and NHL too. Its the same with large corporations. The Gooberment has allowed big to get so powerful that little has no voice. I encourage every little company to remember this…..if a big company call just say no. They will call back and pay ur price. By the time they call u they have already made up their mind they want what YOU have. Don’t let them tell u otherwise.


rochvegas5 t1_j7wjw5o wrote

As usual, everything the NFL does is lip service and we keep gobbling it up


Him_Downstairs t1_j7t1dqe wrote

U mean the player’s union are frauds? *pretends to be shocked.

The retired players also should’ve probably taken better care of their money


[deleted] t1_j7tws7n wrote



toiletwindowsink t1_j7v2wdx wrote

U are so fukin incorrect. I can tell u if it were not for unions every performer in Hollywood, Broadway EVERYWHERE would not get paid. The corps would steal everyone blind.


therealcobrastrike t1_j7udu5q wrote

Well this is objectively false and an extremely ignorant take.

Unions are the reason we have standards like a 40 day work week and overtime and paid sick leave.

Every single “right” you take for granted in the work place was fought for desperately to gain and people were murdered, beaten, and jailed for demanding them.

Like any democratic institution a union requires transparency and constant engagement by its members.

If your union is corrupt it’s because the members have failed to hold their leadership accountable.


MaybeLaterMom t1_j7un7z7 wrote

Imagine equating labor strike movements with the bureaucratic Unions today.

Unions suck. They suck because they were introduced by Capital to calm down actual grassroots worker organizations. And it worked for decades.


therealcobrastrike t1_j7vciyr wrote

Like I said, if your union isn’t adequately representing you then it’s your responsibility to hold them accountable and bring about the reform you’d like to see.

Just saying all unions are corrupt bureaucracies is just plain untrue and an extremely ignorant and over simplistic take.

Also your statement about unions being introduced by capital to keep labor docile is blatantly counter-factual.

Please stop spreading misinformation and lies.


notANexpert1308 t1_j7su8wl wrote

Am I the only one that doesn’t feel much sympathy? They make millions of dollars to play a great game. Sign me up.


Aeldergoth t1_j7t0n7d wrote

Go fuck yourself. Most of those players don’t make millions. The average career is four years. And many of them are broken for the rest of their lives.

You are scum and I hope that you suffer like these men do because it’s the only way you will ever learn empathy you piece of shit.


DA-ZACHYZACHY t1_j7u2vwt wrote

And after 4 years they've already made what you will in your life time multiple times over


wwarnout t1_j7r04ce wrote

Why are they still tax exempt?


[deleted] t1_j7ryo39 wrote



Yoyo_Mcglocklin t1_j7s3i5g wrote

Well it is called cardiac arrest medically speaking, but I get your point, but death has a very different connotation


littlesymphonicdispl t1_j7s4094 wrote

Alright champ, riddle me this. What did he die of?

(Hint: Cardiac Arrest)


razor_eddie t1_j7skeys wrote

He was killed by death. (but got better).

(Hamlin didn't die of anything, as far as I'm aware. His heart stopped for a while, though).


mikebailey t1_j7s3ntg wrote

Tbh no because nobody is going to interpret it as “well medically technically he died”, but rather “he died on that field and he’s now being possessed by a COVID body double”


DA-ZACHYZACHY t1_j7u4anp wrote

To the average reader, "died" implies brain death. He's still alive.

Your description just adds more confusion than there needs to be. Not every viewer is up to date with the latest medical definition of death.