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fakeitilyamakeit t1_j8flagq wrote

Reply to comment by BaronTatersworth in Czech Republic international Jakub Jankto announces he's gay. by PrincessBananas85

My first thought. How is this news?

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UTRAnoPunchline t1_j8ft5ne wrote

There aren't openly gay men in major pro sports...

I believe there isn't a single openly gay male in any of the 4 major Sports League in the States.

So this news is actually a big deal to some people. Particularly LGBT sports fans or young LGBT athletes.

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[deleted] t1_j8ghg3x wrote

[deleted]

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Lambily t1_j8gj8ic wrote

When it becomes the norm, you can make that argument. We're nowhere near that time, at this moment.

Gay athletes are massively underrepresented and visibility like this inspires young gay people — who might love sports but might feel like they aren't welcome in that space.

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Coyote_406 t1_j8ib9hn wrote

Luke Prokop doesn’t play in the NHL, he’s on minor league teams. The fact that you cherry picked that stat shows you are trying to prove a point.

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MonsterRider80 t1_j8fntwb wrote

It’s news because it’s pro sports. Statistically, there should be at the very least 2-3 gay players on any team in any sport. But the number of openly gay pro athletes is nowhere near that, and in many sports you don’t hear of any gay athletes. So when one decides to be open about their sexuality, it’s a big deal and should be underlined and celebrated.

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everygoodnamehasgone t1_j8g8lnp wrote

Why statistically? You're comparing to the general population. Then statistically only 11.6% of NBA players should be black, instead it's 75%. Maybe gay people just don't have much of an affinity for sports.

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Harry_Saturn t1_j8gf6mw wrote

Gay people aren’t a monolith, and professional sports might not be the most welcoming place for someone who isn’t straight. Maybe lots of bi and gay athletes that don’t want to be our publicly for plenty of reasons. I feel like those are more realistic assumptions than just thinking gay people don’t have an affinity for sports.

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everygoodnamehasgone t1_j8ggncu wrote

I find it more likely gay men generally just aren't as interested in playing as much sport and therefore don't have the same representation at the top levels as they do in general society. Just as it's been proven that gay women are massively overrepresented in women's sport (especially soccer), this is usually attributed to sport generally being perceived as a masculine endeavour.

The statistical distribution of gay men in sport doesn't have to match with the general population, the reason there are not as many "out" men in sport isn't necessarily because they're all closeted, it's just as likely they don't exist.

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Harry_Saturn t1_j8gj9hl wrote

You kinda made my point. If sport is generally perceived as a masculine activity, you don’t think the non straight guys would be hesitant to be out publicly because they might think others will perceive them as less “masculine” in a profession where that’s the expectation. Until extremely recently, being openly gay wasn’t celebrated, it was just maybe tolerated. There’s been a good bit of NFL players who came out as gay only after retiring, who all seem to have similar fears of hurting their professional careers over fears of biased treatment. Shit, the Vikings had a kicker or punter (Something Kluwe? Maybe?) who was straight and married but just advocated for equal treatment of gay people, and he feels like there was subtle unfair treatment towards him at times just because of his stance on equality. Like he wasn’t even gay himself but was supportive, and he was given a plausible shitty deal because of it. Maybe you can say why actual gay dudes would rather not be out and draw unfavorable biases in an already extremely cutthroat profession. That makes more sense than thinking gay people aren’t physically gifted or can’t play sports professionally. Gay guys are just like any other segment of the population, very diverse. Some might like show tunes, but I bet tons of gay/bi dudes love metal, or country, or hip hop. Some may enjoy things and clothing that are more feminine, but it’s kinda wild to think there aren’t super “manly” not straight guys who enjoy lifting heavy and dirt bikes or classic cars or bourbon or other “manly” things. Same with women. Sure some gay women might enjoy more masculine things, but plenty of feminine gay women. I’m just saying it makes more sense to think that people from a group that wasn’t welcomed in a particular field might just choose to not out themselves, than thinking an entire subset of humans just don’t have an affinity or ability to compete professionally at sports. Again, gay athletes have come out after retiring and said pretty much what I am trying to relay to you, and they actually lived those lives and made those choices based on what they felt was likely to happen.

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everygoodnamehasgone t1_j8gl9yb wrote

None of that explains the overrepresentation in women's sport. You either think the demographics are the same as gen pop or you don't. If you do (and all the gay men are just hiding) why don't the demographics of women's sport represent society at large?

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Harry_Saturn t1_j8gy6pe wrote

You said gay people maybe don’t have an affinity for sports, and I responded that gay people are just like straight people. Now you’re trying to prove to me that gay people don’t have an affinity for sports by telling me about how many gay women are playing professional sports. I was gonna respond to that, but I saw that you’re just being kind of antagonistic so I’m not even gonna bother. But, it is weird that you want to be so right about gay people somehow not being a very diverse group just like any other random group of people wouldn’t be diverse in their own. Like, they just can’t be good at or into sports? They all gotta be a certain way? That’s just such a weirdly off way to think. Do you think other groups are only a certain way instead of people of those groups being wildly different from each other? You think all Latinos are this way or that way? Or all women this or that? Or all old people? Is it just a sexuality thing? Gender? Do you see ethnicities/races/nationalities as monoliths?

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everygoodnamehasgone t1_j8gyuys wrote

I'm saying the assumption that the demographics of gay people in sport has to be identical to the demographics of gay people in society and all the gay men are just hiding is erroneous and the fact the demographics of women's sport don't line up with society is proof. You seem to be taking this rather personally 🤣.

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Harry_Saturn t1_j8h204j wrote

You’re moving the goal posts, that’s not what you said at first and what I replied to. You’re arguing with everyone in here and lost track of your points. I made a point about you saying “maybe gay people don’t have an affinity for sports”, that they’re not a monolith and it’s kinda shitty to just make that assumption, and now you’re trying to frame it like I said gay people must make the exact same proportional % of athletes in relation to their % of the general population. You’re definitely coming off as having some negative bias or weird agenda. Its getting harder to not just see you as someone who handpicks this or that stat when there is clear first hand accounts proving you wrong. It’s like you want a certain conclusion and now you just hyper focus and fixate on a single point so you just work backwards to reinforce what you want to believe. It’s not working bro, there’s literally gay athletes who have been clear that they didn’t come out until retirement because they didn’t want to have unfair biases against them in an already extremely competitive career. I’m done here, you can reply if you want, but at best you’re ignorant and at worst you’re dishonest, but I’m done arguing about it.

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everygoodnamehasgone t1_j8h2h5q wrote

I'm not moving the goalposts at all, this is what I replied to;

>It’s news because it’s pro sports. Statistically, there should be at the very least 2-3 gay players on any team in any sport. But the number of openly gay pro athletes is nowhere near that, and in many sports you don’t hear of any gay athletes. So when one decides to be open about their sexuality, it’s a big deal and should be underlined and celebrated.

I am refuting that with facts and you started getting defensive for some bizarre reason. You're the one with the agenda.

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MickIAC t1_j8g9usf wrote

Maybe a more accurate assumption would be, there are more barriers to get into sport.

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Theonator100 t1_j8gwwiu wrote

How does sexual orientation prevent someone from getting into sport

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MickIAC t1_j8hh18p wrote

Literally go into a football changing room 10 years ago when I was playing as a kid and you were called a "poof", "bent", "gay", even when you weren't.

There was targeted homophobia towards people who weren't gay, but people suspected you were.

Since then, it's more not feeling comfortable to come out particular when people speak about gay people as if they are not around. There's definitely less homophobia than before hence why a prominent player has come out.

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Lambily t1_j8gijg0 wrote

That's like suggesting Black Americans don't have much of an affinity for college because they are underrepresented. Have you considered that the barrier to entry, societal treatment, and bullying are massive obstacles for openly gay athletes? These aren't stressors straight athletes ever have to concern themselves with.

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everygoodnamehasgone t1_j8govsu wrote

>Black students made up 12% of the student population at 4-year public institutions, 13% of the student population at 4-year private nonprofit institutions, and 29% of the student population at 4-year private for-profit institutions.

They're not underrepresented.

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Lambily t1_j8grxc6 wrote

>Black students made up 12% of the student population at 4-year public institutions,

So underrepresented?

Interesting that you cut this part out:

"...and only 8% of Black students attended an elite research institution."

Regardless, you didn't actually address my argument at all. Being gay doesn't make you predisposed to liking or not liking sports any more than being straight does. That's why we look at external factors.

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everygoodnamehasgone t1_j8gst3d wrote

>So underrepresented?

No. 12 is greater than 11.6. Total all institutions together and they are overrepresented. The fact you jumped to the opposite conclusion is pretty racist.

>Regardless, you didn't actually address my argument at all. Being gay doesn't make you predisposed to liking or not liking sports any more than being straight does. That's why we look at external factors.

Then explain the massive overrepresentation of gay women in women's sport.

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Lambily t1_j8gwh1h wrote

Women are less likely to be bigoted, exclusionary, and to bully other female athletes. It's a societal feature. The same reason heterosexual women can hold hands and complement each other, whereas men are seen as gay for anything remotely affectionate. Macho culture. Toxic masculinity. Call it whatever you want. It acts as a massive deterrent and a stressor to potential gay male athletes.

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everygoodnamehasgone t1_j8gxebb wrote

That would be a reasonable explanation were there a similar proportion of gay women in sport as there are in the general population. This isn't the case though, there is a far higher percentage of gay women in sport than there are in society. The only way your theory would make any sense is if they were also less accepting of straight women.

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