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buckleyk12 t1_j9rjl6k wrote

Fewer events to generate ad revenue. Fewer rounds to generate fan revenue. Fewer hours to generate food and beverage revenue via shotgun start. Paying out the ass for golf talent no one really cares about and now don't have to practice.

It's just not a recipe for success. It was bad business before the first tee shot. It's such a bad idea it almost feels like a huge money laundering scam. I'm too dumb to connect those dots though

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LogieBerra_5 t1_j9rpbqj wrote

Well said. To piggyback off of that, do most people watch golf for the competition and history or are they watching it for the elements that LIV is incorporating? Said differently in a basketball reference... the Harlem Globetrotters are incredibly talented and fun to watch, but it will never be in the same league as the NBA. Doesn't mean it will fail, just may mean the Saudi's overpaid for a sports venture

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bimbles_ap t1_j9sbra8 wrote

The Saudis are paying to try and "sport wash" their culture and try to have people forget their atrocities. Same reason the World Cup was in Qatar.

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tayroarsmash t1_j9t0syh wrote

It’s also a diversification strategy as oil seems to be on a clock.

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rumpel_foreskin17 t1_j9uf2ze wrote

Those fuckers have enough money to live 100,000 lifetimes over, they’ll be fine.

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tayroarsmash t1_j9ul0lf wrote

Oh trust me I’m in no way worried about the oligarchy of Saudi Arabia I just watched a thing where the guy representing them in the video gave diversification to future proof their wealth was a big reason for these new ventures.

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rumpel_foreskin17 t1_j9v1omr wrote

For sure. They may have hit the geographical jackpot but they’re not stupid. Diversification of wealth is smart whether it’s your $500 rainy day fund or your $100,000,000,000 oil monopoly.

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TallDuckandHandsome t1_ja0j3pl wrote

You can add at least another zero to that, which may not seem like a big difference, but also, it's an extra 900 billion

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cobaltnick37 t1_j9uuzbi wrote

They will. But greed never ends, especially for the richest

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jarpio t1_j9uwpg3 wrote

Yeah the rich humans do. But KSA is still a country with people and an economy. You still need to be able to generate wealth in your country. National economies don’t get to just retire (though the Japanese may disagree) Otherwise you become a failed state. And when you’re a monarch in a failed state, your life expectancy generally goes down.

So no those fuckers won’t be fine if they can’t diversify away from a fossil fuel based economy at least a little bit. The individual fuckers with the yachts will be fine but the country will not be. And the yacht fuckers don’t get to live forever. Eventually they die and their kids die and the money goes away.

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KanyeWestBrick t1_j9twy7s wrote

Seems like it did the opposite. All I think about when I think of LIV is Saudi

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caveyh96 t1_j9td5wv wrote

I don''t ever go for that sports washing. It doesn't work and shines more light on the issues. I think it is more they are a individually wealthy nation that are looking to diversify their interests

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bimbles_ap t1_j9trbw1 wrote

The people that do actively care about those issues won't be fooled. The ones who passively care will be easily distracted.

If they really wanted to diversify their interests why not build up grass roots programs and be competitive before trying to invite the world?

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caveyh96 t1_j9u21xd wrote

But I wasn't fooled and it isn't something I overly take much notice in. Look if anything it actively harms the country due to the spotlight.

Because I think the interest in their countries isn't always their. It could be that by having these massive events builds the interest they can then build from.

I could well be wrong but from everything I see sports washing doesn't work.

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bimbles_ap t1_j9u4ua5 wrote

It's not really working because it's clear how much money they're throwing around. If we didn't know about some of the top golfers being paid 9 figures to join it'd be a different story. And the corruption within FIFA isn't exactly a secret anymore either.

When Russia hosted the Olympics the story became the games for a period and the Crimea story was put on the back burner. Russia waiting to invade Ukraine until after the Beijing games was likely orchestrated as well.

It doesn't work on everyone, but most people really only follow major news cycles. And when a sporting event is big enough it'll tend to dominate the news and the other things about that country becomes a footnote.

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jrakosi t1_j9tkzhm wrote

And why Saudi is trying their best to get the next world cup bid...

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Raskputin t1_j9uts2x wrote

As an avid golfer, I don’t watch it much except for the classic events like US/British open, the masters and maybe a couple others. Couldn’t be bothered to watch LIV and while there are definitely some political grievances for why, it could be run by Norway and I’d still be meh.

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Flip_d_Byrd t1_j9s4hms wrote

It was meant to disappear... once it completed it's objective. You are not dumb at all. You figured it out without connecting the dots. But just for closure... The dots are who created it, who sponsored it, and where and when it was played.

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Omar___Comin t1_j9ukv2j wrote

The dots are:

"we are a family of criminal scum with untold billions of dollars and a horrendous reputation... people like sports right? Let's spend some of the untold billions to see if we can get people to associate us with the sports we like. Oh it's not working? Oh well, what should we try with the untold billions next?"

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WKGokev t1_j9uxx1j wrote

They held an event at Bedminster, they achieved their goal. LIV can be shuttered now, the docs are in Saudi possession.

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Falconandmouse t1_j9vb9tz wrote

Plus it’s all dirty Saudi blood money. Screw all the golfers that threw their careers away for a check - and now want their cake and eat it too.

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scootscooterson t1_j9vt56a wrote

I think it’s more there was a clear opportunity for golfers to remake the rev share split. With other sports, nba for instance, players don’t have the type of ability to say they’ll go somewhere else because the NBA is such a product outside of just the talent. There’s a relatively stable negotiating platform that understands the value of both sides, and so it’s complex negotiations that essentially split the money between the players and the owners (was 50/50 I think last deal).

Golfers felt like the split between the pga and the players wasn’t right and they could make up on the product side and keep more of the $$ for themselves. LIV was a vehicle to accomplish this. PGA called their bluff because they weren’t worried about someone recreating the product (um the masters? And every major? That’s magic that even non golf lovers get emotional about). Turns out that products really really really hard to recreate

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dencol t1_j9rqeg4 wrote

Well put. Haven’t heard an actual argument against it other than “Saudi money”.

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antiquemule t1_j9t77j9 wrote

It's a crap concept where everyone gets paid loads of money whether they win or lose.

Does that help?

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RSGator t1_j9ujtck wrote

This is all a matter of opinion but it’s just… not golf. I like the Harlem Globetrotters comparison. Yeah they technically play basketball, but it’s not really basketball. We’re not watching people at the top of their game with LIV, we’re just watching people have fun. There’s no real sense of competition since everyone is getting paid regardless of how well they do.

That might be appealing to some just as the Harlem Globetrotters are appealing to some.

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JMan9391 t1_j9soypl wrote

I don’t understand how I’m supposed to be entertained by LIV and frankly, I’m confused by what makes it different than the PGA Tour. From what I’ve read, the LIV contracts are so big that earnings from tournaments seem negligible. Winning and losing is meaningless from a fan’s point of view. Meanwhile, winning on the PGA Tour seems to mean something, both historically and monetarily.

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fergehtabodit t1_j9um3de wrote

TLDR - you can't make me like it , I'm already done with it.

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JMan9391 t1_j9uycl7 wrote

I mean, yeah, I’ve given it a chance and it is not a good product IMO. I’m not pretending to be morally superior or something, I just want to watch good golf regardless.

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caveyh96 t1_j9tdff5 wrote

I do understand the benefit to golfers securing that set pay check. I mean there are people on tour who are just getting by outside of the top 50-60.

But on the flip side does the guaranteed income ruin the hunger to win and get the pay. I don't think it does but it could be argued it does.

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superworking t1_j9tacgp wrote

Isn't that how most sports are though. Wins are personal goals and the financial benefit usually comes in your next contract. NHL has basically no money for star players for the playoffs but clearly winning the cup is meaningful.

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walterpeck1 t1_j9u45oe wrote

>Isn't that how most sports are though

No.

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superworking t1_j9u5vdl wrote

Okay which other sports are players paid based on their weekly results?

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walterpeck1 t1_j9u6u5r wrote

Most pro sports pay bonuses based on specific results per game or over the course of a season or for receiving specific awards.

Beyond bonuses (because I'm sure you're going to say that's not the same thing) it's less that they get paid for weekly results, and more that their weekly results ensure they stay hired and therefore paid. So their weekly results matter.

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superworking t1_j9u7ica wrote

NFL is moving towards more players getting guaranteed contracts. NHL already has guaranteed contracts up to 8 years in length and next to no performance bonuses. Similar with the NBA. So this is just more of an example of yes sports are moving in that direction with some already there.
LIV also isn't likely going to be dishing out 5+ year contracts to everyone. A lot of the initial deals are based on the risk that the league fails.

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EatSleepJeep t1_j9uoaet wrote

All of the individual entry sports with traveling venues: golf, tennis, all forms of motorsport racing, horse racing, etc

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superworking t1_j9uqdma wrote

motorsport racing like Danny Ric that had to be paid for the remainder of his contract despite being absolutely atrocious and the team not wanting to have him take up a seat? Seems like just another sport where deals are being more guaranteed and longer with less performance bonuses required.

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ChrisChrisBangBang t1_j9sydyi wrote

The whole concept is broken from the outset. Their basic stance is that pro golf (PGA tour) is BORING, so they’ve come up with a format that fixes that. Really good way to alienate actual golf fans who’ve grown up with 72 hole stroke play tournaments as the accepted standard test in pro golf. Their (apparent) aim is to also attract non-fans, with their concerts & other gimmicks, but at the end of it this is still golf, if people don’t like it a tshirt cannon & some washed up music act isn’t going to change that.

Another factor is because this is a pure entertainment product, there’s no criteria for entry or qualifying process, no cut in tournaments, so there’s a vital element of sport missing from this. It’s a money making exercise for millionaires who had dump trucks full of money given to them up front, how is anyone supposed to care about that?

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Faultylntelligence t1_j9zkbob wrote

The thing I love about golf from a viewer perspective as well is I can kind of have it on whilst doing other things, at least for the first 3 rounds and then you can actually enjoy the final day with excitement. It serves purposes.

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DangerBay2015 t1_ja1u8d1 wrote

Yup. It's literally XFL, only without the women, without the hits, without the touchdowns, and with 40x more walking.

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Chemical_Director_25 t1_j9s5zp8 wrote

Isn’t it obvious it’s supposed to? It was for temporary money laundering I thought

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726wox t1_j9ts1fk wrote

Why does the state of Saudi Arabia need to launder its own money?

Secondly to launder money you’d need to be able to maintain the cash once it’s clean. Spending millions to other parties isn’t money laundering it’s just spending money

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Omar___Comin t1_j9ulgl6 wrote

Lol I love this group of people that's shouting "money laundering" without apparently having a clue of what that is, or why the monarch/dictator of a country would be doing it at all, let alone by just giving it away to a bunch of golfers

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Feeez_Shato t1_j9uh8hh wrote

Live, like the opposite of Jamal Khashoggi? Probably.

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726wox t1_j9v0n6q wrote

The owners of money need to launder it to live? Because of the implied threat of themselves?

And the best way to do this is to simply give it away to golfers and never get it back?

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Imfrank123 t1_j9tu1sl wrote

Not money laundering, sports washing.

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DFWPunk t1_j9uwik0 wrote

There's also the coincidental payments of large sums to the former president.

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Faultylntelligence t1_j9zkjzu wrote

It’s not money laundering. It’s sport washing and probably more so than that, the Saudis having more money than they know what to do with and this provides a bit of excitement. It’s something to do with their endless supply of cash

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sfitz0076 t1_j9ualsx wrote

Basically, every unlikable golfer plays for LIV. Remind me why I should watch?

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RonyTheTiger t1_j9s3y9u wrote

Is it Liv, like “Live”? Or is it L-4, or is it all Roman numerals? I never cared and may never find out. At least some players got a fat cheque I guess.

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bimbles_ap t1_j9sbyuk wrote

LIV in Roman numerals, so 54, number of holes they play and the score you'd get if you birdie every hole on a par-72 course, seems silly.

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Feeez_Shato t1_j9ugkqy wrote

Disappear like a US journalist who pissed off a Saudi royal slaver?

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Go_Cart_Mozart t1_j9uhshu wrote

Bullshit

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The people funding this have a literal endless supply of money they can't possibly spend all of. Well, at least until the oil dries up or fully goes out of vogue.

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elkarpe t1_j9vwruh wrote

Good. Let them fail

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Hero_Charlatan t1_j9tpyib wrote

Liv spend a billion dollars last year and made zero I think they will be around for a long time

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Russ12347 t1_j9ttaxa wrote

I need to make more money - or I will be broke

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