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OneBar1905 t1_jc55szd wrote

For casual fans/non-fans, he struck out:

Juan Soto - probably the best hitter in the MLB, famous for his control of the strike zone and low strikeout numbers.

Julio Rodriguez - 2022 rookie of the year who put up a 25 homer season.

Rafael Devers - superstar 3rd baseman for the Red Sox who just signed a 300million dollar contract

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JaqenHghar t1_jc5ace0 wrote

Appreciate the context. Don’t follow baseball closely but can appreciate a kid stepping up on the biggest stage of their career and crushing.

Reminds me of McClung winning the dunk contest last month. Stepping up and smashing the big dogs.

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Killakaronic t1_jc5su1o wrote

McClung wasn’t some unknown dunker. He was picked specifically for this competition because of that known skill he has. And there weren’t any big dogs in the dunk contest.

The kid that struck out those 3 Allstars wasn’t even signed by a team that has to fill a roster for a low A, high A, Double A and Triple A team.

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Lemur718 t1_jc720r1 wrote

Also mclung is not doing anything in the NBA -being a dunker is not the same as contributing and being able to hang in the NBA. this guy will be an impact player in the game of baseball.

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JaqenHghar t1_jc6e6zp wrote

Idk a D leaguer coming in is still pretty impressive. That’s never happened before right? As a casual viewer I wasn’t familiar with him so the story piqued my interest.

Obviously this kid can pitch and was chosen to the team for his skill. Much like mcclung was chosen for his…skill.

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alreadyreddituser t1_jc6f9ld wrote

This was in an actual game against the very best competition in the world. The equivalent of McClung winning the dunk contest would’ve been this guy coming in and lighting up a radar gun during a practice throwing session that only backups were participating in.

They’re not the same.

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demarderollins t1_jc6jvr8 wrote

It’s more like Sundiata Gaines signing a 10 day contract with the jazz and hitting a game winner buzzer beat in his first game against lebron’s team

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Think_please t1_jc6j1px wrote

It's like if Hebbert won a stuffed bear at a carnival for knocking over some milk bottles

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JaqenHghar t1_jc6hs1w wrote

This also isn’t the MLB so I’d argue those mega paid stars aren’t trying 100%.

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DTaH_Flux t1_jc6i7h6 wrote

They're playing in the World Baseball Classic. Team USA just lost to Mexico and was clowned by the fans. They have an all-world lineup including Trout, Goldschmidt, Betts, and Turner. This is their chance to win an actual world championship.

I would bet a lot of money that a majority of them are trying hard even though this isn't the main league they play in.

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Useful-ldiot t1_jc6invm wrote

If you don't think they were trying during an at bat, I have a bridge to sell you.

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JaqenHghar t1_jc6ix60 wrote

I said not 100%. Calm down everyone, Jesus. Y’all are way too literal.

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TimRoxSox t1_jc6v63a wrote

I think the point is that these guys aren't going 50%. You don't get to the majors without a crazy work ethic. This is occurring during Spring Training, where the players are getting ready for the season (so they are doing their best to get into playing shape -- dogging it doesn't help their long-term outlook). And nationality-based team sports are always stocked with patriotic players who want to win.

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Useful-ldiot t1_jc7lqy9 wrote

And on top of this, if you aren't trying, it's not going to be during an at bat.

Do they dive to make the ridiculous catch? Maybe, maybe not.

Do they try and stretch the double into a triple? Maybe, maybe not.

The "easiest" part of baseball, in terms of physical effort, is hitting.

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kactus t1_jc88y62 wrote

But...they probably are giving it 100%. Competition is competition for these guys. They aren't going to turn down their effort level just because it's not the MLB.

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TopShotsTopShots t1_jc6h9yh wrote

Would it surprise you to find out that there are professional dunkers out there that would wreck any NBA player in a dunk contest, but would probably lose to a G league scrub in actual basketball? Turns out jumping really high is not all you need to be a good basketball player. They only called up McClung because thats how far the dunk contest had fallen off.

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slothlovereddit t1_jc6t5rf wrote

I stopped watching the dunk contest when they started jumping over Kias. Can't imagine what they are doing now

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DenFlyvendeFlamingo t1_jc7h915 wrote

This year was great. Best one in a while and second best the last 15 years or so, after the Aaron Gordon and Lavine one

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TopShotsTopShots t1_jc7im8l wrote

I wanna see real nba players...star players

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DenFlyvendeFlamingo t1_jc7j4vn wrote

Well we all do. But in regards to quality this year was a step up. I’d they can keep this up, maybe stars will be inclined to participate again.

Also Lavine is an all-star caliber player and he participated. The thing is that it’s mostly the young athletic players that’ll participate, and sometimes they grow into star players and sometimes they don’t.

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Brutal007 t1_jc6s9m7 wrote

This is the equivalent of a guy that didn’t even go to college or get signed to play basketball outta HS. Getting to play in the the all star game, but this all star game is actually competitive and both sides want to win, and dropping 50 points against the best of the best.

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rosen380 t1_jc6a31l wrote

Fwiw- career SO rates for each: Soto 16.8% Rodriguez 25.9% Devers 21.0%

From that, we'd expect an average pitcher to strike all three of them out about 0.9% of the time, or about a 1-in-109 chance

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OhPiggly t1_jc6qw30 wrote

That’s when facing pitchers from the MLB that they have tons of stats on. Not surprising that the struggled against a pitcher they have never faced.

Edit: this article title also conveniently leaves out that he gave up a double to one of the easiest players in the MLB to strike out in that same inning.

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enkafan t1_jc6sf9w wrote

And they are also facing others with MLB arms and scouting. I'm confident that when given the choice between "MLB pitcher who I've scouted" vs "unsigned 21 year old dude I have no scouting" every MLB batter is taking the later every single time.

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OhPiggly t1_jc739j7 wrote

I take it you haven’t played baseball at a high level then. It is always easier to hit off of pitchers when you know their tendencies. It’s no accident that the game is completely stat-driven.

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enkafan t1_jc75jcz wrote

Yes, assuming you have two players of equal skill then knowing their tendencies is obviously better.

You are arguing that random unsigned dudes should consistently strike out major league pitchers at a higher rate than guys with professional scouting and arms warranting tens of millions of dollars.

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OhPiggly t1_jc7fytr wrote

When did I make that argument? You are putting words in my mouth. I am just saying that striking out 3 and letting one of the easiest hitters in the MLB to strike out hit a double off of you is not a great indicator of how good you are.

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proto3296 t1_jc7pob7 wrote

He did something absolutely absurd in striking out the 3. Letting up a double can happen. Striking out the three of them in a row tho wouldn’t happen very often and probably won’t either

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DemSumBigAssRidges t1_jc7r6wm wrote

So, a guy with no MLB experience gave up a double to someone with MLB experience, but also struck out three MLB stars (at least one with a World Series ring)? Sounds impressive, honestly.

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OhPiggly t1_jc7th9m wrote

Machado is one of the easiest players in the MLB to strike out.

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psqueetheG t1_jc7vc2b wrote

Yeah, I struck him out twice last week. You’re ludicrous lol.

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DemSumBigAssRidges t1_jc7vq6a wrote

Not sure where you're getting that from except maybe you just don't like him which is understandable. Percentage wise, he struck out more last year than he ever did, and it barely cracked 20% (source: baseball reference). Other than last year, his SO% has been in the teens.

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Brutal007 t1_jc6si7p wrote

Yea this also makes since and is important, there’s surely minimal or no film on him this early in the WBC, but that still shows how good his stuff is. If his stuff wasn’t good it wouldn’t matter if they havnt seen him before

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AUNTY_HAZEL t1_jc80vtm wrote

>But Monday's ninth inning ultimately sold him. Hebbert, who also gave up a double to the hot-hitting Machado in his lone inning of work, used mostly low 90s sinkers, mid-80s changeups and low-90s sliders to strike out three of the best hitters in the world.

👀

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RocketSammael t1_jc6t9v7 wrote

Juan Soto is an amazing talent, but you can't hit .240 for a season and claim you're the best hitter.

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TimRoxSox t1_jc6wwe4 wrote

Sure you can. On-base rate and slugging are so much more important to hitting, based on expected runs scored, and Soto is an on-base juggernaut. Players are purposefully swinging harder and putting up lower averages to increase their SLG, and there's a reason the whole league is doing this now. I have no doubt Soto could hit for a super high average if he wanted -- he was third in average in MLB in 2021, which is proof he has that ability.

I think Alvarez is a better hitter, but Soto is also young as hell. I think Soto has one peak season ahead of him that will blow us all away.

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RocketSammael t1_jc7ganx wrote

Even using your metrics, I fail to see how Soto is "the best hitter in the game."

He's only played three full seasons (2019, 2021, 2022) and in those seasons he ranked #22, #16, and #46 in slugging percentage, respectively. On-base percentage, which is obviously Soto's biggest skill and admittedly one in which he is a beast, he ranked #7, #1, and #6. OPS - #10, #3, #15

So again I'll say - Soto is an unbelievable talent, but he is not the best hitter in the MLB. He may get there one day, but he cannot currently make stake to that claim. He's got to actually produce and show that he's consistently the best year over year, and he hasn't done that.

The stats do not back up your claims.

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TimRoxSox t1_jc7nc7v wrote

But the combination of everything is what makes the hitter. In 2020, he was MLB's best hitter with a wRC+ of 202. He was MLB's 3rd-best hitter in 2021. In a huge down year, he was MLB's 10th-best hitter (Statcast data had him as the 4th-best). If a hitter is 1st, 3rd, and 10th in MLB over three seasons, it's totally fair for people to say he's the best. I wouldn't, but he's among the best, at the very least. He's not gonna run a BABIP of nearly 100 points below his career numbers again.

The biggest issue with your original comment is that you brought up AVG, which hardly describes how good a hitter is. I always use this example -- would you rather have Skip Schumaker's .303 AVG in 2009 or Prince Fielder's .299? Going by AVG, you would think Schumaker was the better hitter, but Fielder was absurdly more valuable with the bat. Just a preposterous gap in their production.

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OneBar1905 t1_jc7lo1o wrote

The argument for Soto is mostly one about his otherworldly control of the zone - something that 24 year old players usually struggle with. It’s not clear cut and others have as strong of an argument, but this is on a post about an unsigned pitcher striking Soto out, and in terms of zone control Soto is the best there is.

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ElPlatanoDelBronx t1_jc7ib0p wrote

He literally just said Alvarez is a better hitter.

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RocketSammael t1_jc7iiwp wrote

Thanks for pointing out the contradictory nature of his post. He did lead with "sure you can" in reference to claiming Juan Soto is the best hitter in the game, but we'll just ignore that part.

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OneBar1905 t1_jc6wss4 wrote

Batting average is an incredibly flawed metric for evaluating the productiveness of a hitter. Soto’s has a career .424 OBP which allows him to have a career 153 wrc+, meaning he’s worth 53% more than the average hitter.

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probablygolfer t1_jc7f7wh wrote

There are a bunch of sabermetric fans that want to disagree because they HATE BA but you're right. Even his OPS wasn't anything special last year at .850 and that's with his walks boosting the hell out of it. No one is saying he probably doesn't have the best eye at the plate, but best hitter? No way. Not unless he you know, starts hitting better.

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IgDailystapler t1_jc74w1s wrote

I wouldn’t call Soto the best hitter in the MLB right now (that’s not to say he isn’t good, he’s put up numerous all star caliber seasons before he’s even turned 25) but he’s still only 24 and has only played four (combined) full seasons. I’d say Aaron Judge is currently the best hitter in the MLB atm (because he just put up one of the best offensive seasons in MLB history, as well as multiple other all star campaigns).

I will say, Soto probably does have the best hold on the strike zone, I mean two seasons in a row with at least 135 walks is just ridiculous. With how young he is, it’s a definite possibility he becomes a truly dominating force in the MLB in the coming years.

Anyways this is just semantics and opinion lol, doesn’t really mean anything.

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ADacome24 t1_jc7jzdt wrote

juan soto is not the best hitter in mlb

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Justifyz t1_jc6tqwi wrote

Soto is far from the best hitter. I personally think he’s overrated. He had like two good seasons. He’s average now

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OneBar1905 t1_jc6w9ii wrote

His worst year, last year, he had a 145 wrc+. That means he was 45% better than an average hitter in his worst year production wise. He still had 99th or 100th percentile ratings in xWOBA, bb%, k%, and zone control metrics. His down year was mostly due to a crippling low batting average on balls in play, which should increase significantly with the shift ban this year.

Soto’s game isn’t aesthetically pleasing to many fans because walking is his main skill, but it leads to him being an incredibly productive hitter based on advanced stats.

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Justifyz t1_jc6wrp9 wrote

Yes he has a good WRC+ stat but he still doesn’t wow me at all. I respect him but there are way better players than him

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OneBar1905 t1_jc6xp1q wrote

WRC+ is literally the most accurate metric we have to measure a hitter’s production. He’s a generational talent in how well he controls the strike zone and gets in base, and he’s 24 years old. Just go to his baseball savant page and look at his percentile ratings. Other players have had better years since he joined the mlb, but few have been on the same level as him consistently.

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Justifyz t1_jc6xx7i wrote

True but I still think he’s overrated. Just wait it out

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SkitTrick t1_jc76py3 wrote

I refuse to believe you are actually this stupid

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Justifyz t1_jc7746h wrote

Im surprised you’re still responding to me. Nothing you say will convince me otherwise

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TimRoxSox t1_jc6xdk1 wrote

He's been well above-average in all five of his seasons. In his worst offensive season, he was 43% better than the average hitter. I think he's slightly overrated -- I'll take Alvarez over him -- but he's a monster. Not sure how anyone could think he's average, to be honest.

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FlexxSquad t1_jc6lkue wrote

Julio had played ONE year lol

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slapshots1515 t1_jc6p9qz wrote

>Julio Rodriguez - 2022 rookie of the year who put up a 25 homer season

I don’t see any contradictions

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