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Cognac_and_swishers t1_jcgs7is wrote

This was a long-overdue step, and I'm glad it finally happened. However, here are a few clarifying details:

  1. This happened back in September

  2. The unionization only covers players in the affiliated minor leagues (that is, players for minor league teams that are farm teams for a major league team)

  3. The team in the picture, the Savannah Bananas, are not and have never been part of the affiliated minors. They were originally part of a collegiate summer league (a type of amateur league in which college players who seem to have at least an outside shot of being drafted by major league organization can get experience using wood bats outside of the college season), but as of this year they are strictly a barnstorming exhibition team, the Harlem Globetrotters of baseball. Their players are not part of the union.

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pseudochicken t1_jchn5h5 wrote

Lol, Savannah bananas. That’s awesome

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vishuno t1_jchs973 wrote

They do all kinds of fun shit.

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Digital_loop t1_jcijfak wrote

This is the most rediculous shit I've ever seen! Some would even say that this shit is BANANAS!

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El_Zarco t1_jcixj4s wrote

Love the ump's restrained vibing at 2:40

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Goodgoditsgrowing t1_jclbqg7 wrote

Ok

  1. I might actually watch baseball if I could see games like this. Savannah Bananas are the shit.

  2. I’m dying that the other team has sleeveless fringe uniforms.

  3. holy shit how did that guy on stilts not die? I still walk - if I had a chance at professional sports I wouldn’t risk my career running on slippery powdery gravel.

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schmooooo0 t1_jcjuptt wrote

This was straight-up bananas. B-a-n-a-n-a-s. But, really, this was so funny and entertaining.

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granticusmaximusrex t1_jcko580 wrote

Went to their game last night and the left fielder caught a fly ball while doing a backflip

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_B_Little_me t1_jcjgu6l wrote

What’s funny is they aren’t a mlb minor league team. There’s literally no reason this pic should be used for this article.

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[deleted] t1_jckalj8 wrote

Came to say this. Thank you for saying this for me…

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mekniphc t1_jchs4j3 wrote

They were the Sand Gnats when they were a summer league team.

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mthwdcn t1_jcids91 wrote

Nope, completely different organizations. Sand Gnats were NY Mets minor league team that left Savannah for Columbia SC cause City of Savannah wouldn’t pony up for better facilities.

Bananas are formally a Coastal Plains League “summer” team. They were unaffiliated with MLB and made up of mostly college players. They bring a whole new level of entertainment to their games and eventually left their league to become an exhibition (think Harlem Globetrotters) team. They are wildly fun and popular, on top of being really talented players. I wish they still played in a league, just for the variety of competition.

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NotOSIsdormmole t1_jcigycg wrote

They also disbanded the college team after last season to focus strictly on the banana ball pro team that everyone sees all over social media

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Sunsparc t1_jcij234 wrote

Their entire 2023 season is sold out too.

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Grantsdale t1_jcineqv wrote

Not exactly, they only sell tickets about 2 months in advance, so anything after May isn’t really available yet. But they had so much interest that they had to do a lottery and stop presale registration.

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yodakiin t1_jciitb8 wrote

I mean the attendance for Sand Gnats games was also kinda shit for the last couple years. The games weren’t terrible, but compared to the bananas, they were kinda, idk, depressing.

And I don’t know what they were asking for from the city in terms of facilities, but I can see the city being reluctant to do anything to Grayson Stadium (being a historic landmark is gonna make any kind of repair more expensive) for a team struggling with attendance (something the bananas have never had an issue with)

Anyways serves them right after replacing Nick the Gnat with Nate /s

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mthwdcn t1_jcikbzb wrote

Agreed. It was a little sad, but Gnats played way more games, so attendance was a little watered down. I think Bananas are trying to get new facilities now also.

I do feel they’ll end up victims of their own ambition and ditching league play was short-sighted. But their games are fun as hell.

Also it was Gnate the Gnat, put some respect on his name lol!

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yodakiin t1_jcinlts wrote

Not surprised. The Gnats weren’t wrong for wanting upgrades, but the bananas actually have leverage now.

Plus, considering they’re sold out until 2030 it seems like, idk why they don’t put stands back over in left like they used to have (although idk if the gnats had used them since smoltz played a game there on a rehab stint once lol)

And honestly, I wouldn’t be too surprised if they outgrew the city in and started playing mostly elsewhere kinda like how the globetrotters don’t really play in Harlem. I mean, last I heard, the bananas had more Twitter/instagram followers than every single MLB team. I don’t blame them for trying to capitalize on that.

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AlanFromRochester t1_jcj7gy8 wrote

> idk if the gnats had used them since smoltz played a game there on a rehab stint once lol)

MLB rehab visits often seem to be where huge minor league attendances come from

https://www.milb.com/rochester/ballpark/frontier-field

The local AAA park, 2nd baseball attendance record is that, 1st and 4th are exhibitions against the major league affiliate, 3rd is Hideki Irabu during his short stint in the minors transitioning from Japanese baseball

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phaedrus77 t1_jcl6wma wrote

>And honestly, I wouldn’t be too surprised if they outgrew the city in and started playing mostly elsewhere kinda like how the globetrotters don’t really play in Harlem.

The Bananas are currently on tour. They've been livestreaming their games on YouTube. Yesterday they played in Texas.

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Wont_reply69 t1_jcjk7kj wrote

I love the fun they bring but as a local I would love for them to get new facilities or just commit to the road full time so regular baseball could come back into Grayson.

I’ve lived in much smaller cities with low tier ball teams and loved nothing more than casually attending cheap games, grabbing a seat and getting ballpark concessions.

Honestly it’s the needing to buy suddenly announced tickets on flash sale months in advance that kills it for me. They’ll send me an email that there’s going to be another email tomorrow that releases tickets for a few days, so then I have to message any friends I would want to go with on a weekday morning to ask if they want to go to a baseball game in 3 months.

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mekniphc t1_jcig1kb wrote

I figured they just got sold to the carnival barker guy and lost their affiliation.

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agoia t1_jcj2krp wrote

The same fella owned another CPL team, the Gastonia Grizzlies, and was known for crazy promos and shit like a concessions item called the trash can nachos, and "all you can drink and eat" tickets. They had someone on staff whose title was "The Ticket Leprechaun" (hi Jake!)

The owner Jessie was always dressed in a yellow suit, like a cross between The Man in the Yellow Hat from Curious George and Gatsby.

I imagine a lot of the meals the players got looked much like the ones in the pictures about shitty food, and the players' host families for the Summers did a bulk of the good feeding.

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getjustin t1_jckn1x3 wrote

> I wish they still played in a league, just for the variety of competition.

If they didn't they wouldn't be as fun. They'd have to play by league rules. No fans catching fouls for an out...no sprinting to second on a walk while every player touches the ball....

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grasshoppa80 t1_jcibf79 wrote

-The savannah banana pitcher is now throwing the ball like a cricket player

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quinn_thomas t1_jcie9rs wrote

I was gonna say, since when are the Bananas in the minors? Will I get to see them play the Pickles this summer?

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staresatmaps t1_jchr2l7 wrote

The best thing for player salaries would be more loss of affiliation. It's all stockholm syndrome. Imagine if there was actually competition for players and not just 1 entity. Minor league basketball players get payed more because they can play in Europe so the NBA has to pay them to keep them. Maybe more Americans need to go to Japan and Korea.

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Cognac_and_swishers t1_jchtqv5 wrote

Lots of American players do go to Korea and Japan, but only after it's clear they aren't going to have a major league career in the US.

I don't see how "loss of affiliation" would lead to higher salaries. There are already lots of unaffiliated minor leagues, and they are basically for the guys who aren't good enough to play in the affiliated minors. No player who has the talent to make the majors is going to voluntarily play for an independent league team.

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staresatmaps t1_jchvs2h wrote

If it works like that in Basketball and Soccer, I don't see how Baseball as a sport is any different. Even if you did have a potential to play in the majors, would you rather make 20k a year in milb or 120k a year in Korea while you develop? The main problem is more that NPB and KBO have a limit on the number of foreign players they can sign. Now imagine an independent league that had teams in a bunch of large cities, not small towns throughout America. MLB would do everything to stop that from happening.

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moskowizzle t1_jchy0cf wrote

There are independent teams just a few miles outside of NYC. The veteran (i.e. highest paid) players make a few thousand a month and that's only in-season. I last worked for one of them back in 2009 and the veteran cap was $3000/month. I'm assuming it's gone up at least a bit since then, but it's not like they're making bank. Rookies made $800/month.

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staresatmaps t1_jci0n1b wrote

Because why would they pay more? They probably have zero fans that actually care if they win. Those leagues embrace the mickey mouse family event atmosphere. Look at the USL Championship in soccer. They pay more because they actually want to win and embrace fans that care. Those baseball teams are usually in little tiny towns with no people too.

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moskowizzle t1_jci332t wrote

I'm saying that these are teams in major metropolitan areas.

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staresatmaps t1_jci3hhn wrote

Give me an example?

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moskowizzle t1_jci3mtb wrote

New Jersey Jackals and Rockland Boulders. A little further out you have the Sussex County Miners.

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staresatmaps t1_jci4pqb wrote

They both play in a league with a tiny salary cap and wierd player rules trying to be farm teams in everything but name. I wonder how many fans they have? I bet they would get a lot more if they took themselves seriously.

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moskowizzle t1_jci4wie wrote

Jackals draw about 2000/game, but they're moving to a stadium that's about 2x the size of Yogi Berra Stadium.

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SmarterThanMyBoss t1_jci4cam wrote

Lookup the Frontier League. It's the only league I'm familiar with (I worked for a team that used to be in the league - but the team was in a small town and the league outgrew it). They have teams in the Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Chicago areas. Those are the only 3 teams I can think of off the top of my head. I'd guess the other teams are all near major markets or the main attractions in tertiary markets.

Independent baseball (and high-level college, wooden bat leagues) is awesome and well-supported by their local communities.

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staresatmaps t1_jci5g3v wrote

Do you think it could be bigger if they started paying players more and getting better players or fans just don't give a shit about that?

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SmarterThanMyBoss t1_jci7xww wrote

No. It's great for what it is but it will never compete to get "the best" players and honestly, except for the big time prospects (that are only hyped because the MLB fans are excited about the future), no one cares if you're a "2nd division" player or a "5th division" level player. They're all GREAT baseball players and it's fun to watch them play up close and personal. Independent ball has a niche where fans can get up close and personal. Stadiums are small (but often very nice and they host lots of tournaments for high schools and colleges) and attendance is low and you have access to players and coaches like you don't get at other levels.

I've seen or worked at all levels of baseball and there is something special about every level. The majors are a huge spectacle. The best players in the world trying to win the championship of the entire world. But they're also distant. You can't see them. You can't touch them. Many of them dislike you (check out comments many made about how great it was playing without fans or media during the covid year).

AA and AAA (and to a lesser extent A) are young guys trying to take that last step to a lifetime dream. Or veterans who are 1 injury away from getting back. The promos are more fun. The stadiums are smaller. The atmosphere is chill because no one knows who won the AAA championship last year except people who were in the stadium.

College Wooden bat, and Independent leagues are hit or miss but the good ones are great. The shitty ones are guys playing on community college fields with 43 fans but the good ones can get 2-8k fans. The promos and fan engagement is awesome. You can usually walk right up to the fence and get autographs. Players often don't have a tunnel, so they walk through the stands and get high fives from the kids. I worked for a team like this (medical) and just sat on the edge of the dugout. I'd get kids all the time that wanted so and sons autograph (or even mine which was weird since I'm just a fat guy with a team tee shirt) and I'd get it for them between innings. Some of our players went on the the majors. Most didn't. All of them were very very good college players and it was high level, fun baseball.

For what it's worth, I've been told by "baseball people" and from what I've seen have no reason to disagree, that in terms of quality of play, good Independent league ball is equivalent to being slightly below AA but definitely better than A. (Again, it varies greatly. I'm sure there are shitty leagues that are really bad. The Sugar Land Skeeters had Roger Clemons just a couple years after he last pitched in the majors and Tracy McGrady -very good baseball player- shortly after his NBA career).

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staresatmaps t1_jcj4ucb wrote

To be honest, this way of thinking is just so foreign to how I think. Maybe because I'm mainly a soccer fan. But soccer fans do not support minor league teams. Nobody will show up unless its an independent team. Even the biggest teams in the world, maybe a few dozen people are showing up for the reserve teams. I get the "entertainment" thing, but why would any serious fan care at all about a reserve team or a faux reserve team.

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SocialWinker t1_jciv2ht wrote

The St Paul Saints were an independent minor league team for most of their existence, until COVID came along. Honestly, the baseball was usually pretty lousy overall, but the games were always a ton of fun. Now they’re the AAA affiliate for the Twins, and the atmosphere has stayed pretty similar, with better baseball being played as well, for the most part. Granted, the were just sold to a new ownership group, so who knows what we see in the future.

Edit - Just to add, the pay for the independent teams was comically bad, even compared to minor league salaries, IIRC. I tried out once when I was younger and in much better shape. I did not make the team, they still had some standards, even back then.

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staresatmaps t1_jcj9nxd wrote

Thats what im saying. Nobody wants to support a farm team or a glorified farm team. They dont get people going to the games to watch baseball, they get people by being a "fun" family friendly day out, not disimilar to going to the zoo. If the Saints were an independent team in a league that the teams payed decent and cared about winning it would probably be sold out every game for the same prices.

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SocialWinker t1_jcjef6r wrote

For what it’s worth, saints game are usually pretty packed, for minor league games. Not exactly sell outs, but they averaged something like 6,000+ per game, in a 7,000 or so seat stadium. The Saints also have the advantage of being in just across the river from their MLB affiliate. So Twins fans can go see their top prospects easily.

When the Saints were an independent team in an independent league, their attendance was falling, but still not bad, at under 5,000 a game. But that was at an ancient stadium. They moved right around the time they become an affiliate. Hard to really say if the attendance increase is due to the gorgeous new ballpark, the affiliate stuff, or both. Probably both.

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Cognac_and_swishers t1_jchxbbi wrote

I'm not sure I understand what kind of system you're proposing. Amateur players get drafted by MLB teams, and then are under that team's control for a certain number of years. They play in the minors first because in baseball, more than any other sport, it takes time to develop skills. Newly drafted players aren't ready to play in the majors immediately.

The draft, and the years of team control, are important for parity. MLB has more parity than any of the other North American sports leagues, and MUCH more parity than the European soccer leagues. I think that's a good thing.

You seem to be proposing a system where there's no draft and every amateur player just becomes a free agent. So, for example, a guy who would be a top draft pick can instead sign a 1-year contract with a Korean team, and then try to sign on with a major league team the next year? Correct me if I'm misunderstanding.

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staresatmaps t1_jchzvgh wrote

Yes, thats exactly what what I'm saying. Now imagine the Japanese league, Korean league, Mexican league, an imaginary Canadian league and another American league all vying for those players. Now MLB would have to pay minor league players more to get them to sign. Also the MLS has great parity and their draft is meaningless. Its all to do with the salary cap, not the draft.

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pattydo t1_jchvosy wrote

> Maybe more Americans need to go to Japan and Korea.

Maybe! But the ones good enough to get a lot of money there are good enough to have a likely MLB career and a huge signing bonus that they'd be throwing away.

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staresatmaps t1_jchwijj wrote

I just looked up the Japanese and Korean teams have a limit on the number of foreign players they can sign. I'm sure plenty of Milb players would happily go there for 100k-200k salaries, but those teams wont waste their limited spots on lower level players.

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[deleted] t1_jcjzjow wrote

[deleted]

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staresatmaps t1_jcl0oga wrote

They have a limit on foreign players and there is only so many teams. Yea im sure it stops many people, but that has never stopped basketball players from going to Europe. They have the same foreign player rules, but there's just way more teams and money.

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DigMeTX t1_jcisnap wrote

That’s why the guy in the pic is jumping off a building. Protesting lack of banana unionization.

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AlanFromRochester t1_jcj5957 wrote

I knew minor leagues unionization had already happened, I figured this meant an offseason agreement taking effect with the leadup to this season

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FletchTopper t1_jckdirw wrote

Your third point was my literal first thought when I saw the photo

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SirSquire_ t1_jcj2w6s wrote

They are formerly the Sand Gnats, who were a Mets minor league affiliate.

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Cognac_and_swishers t1_jcj3fct wrote

No, the Sand Gnats were a totally unrelated team that also happened to be located in Savannah. They relocated to Columbia, SC in 2016 and changed their major league affiliation to the Kansas City Royals in 2021.

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