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salazar_0333 t1_ivgamdh wrote

too bad it's in qatar

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29PiecesOfSilver OP t1_ivgt7yq wrote

Exactly. Qatar has been criticised for its stance on same-sex relationships, its human rights record and its treatment of migrant workers. As much as I love the sport, players and have not missed a single World Cup since Diego Maradona scored his “Hand of God” goal against England in 1986… I, for one, would not be able to forgive myself for supporting a World Cup hosted by Qatar with Iran or Russia playing and, as a result, unfortunately I am going to be busy painting my pretty little toenails and dyeing my hair this year.

Edit: Serious answer - I also post articles about Russia, China, Iran & North Korea… Not because I am promoting them, but because I want to bring attention to the atrocities they commit.

I don’t need anymore of ‘that sweet important Reddit karma’, as you so explicitly put it as I have earned enough front page karma in the last 3 months to last me a lifetime. However, I am glad that some trolls can earn karma at my expense. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Oh, and BTW… I am not a ‘liar’ or a ‘he’ 🤦‍♀️

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Stacular t1_ivh0298 wrote

Serious question, why are you posting articles promoting the World Cup if you're boycotting it?

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MMMbahp t1_ivh2wf7 wrote

How else would they get that sweet important Reddit karma?

12

Northern23 t1_ivhg6om wrote

How's the karma stock price these days? Is it going downhill à la tech companies?

4

[deleted] t1_ivh2r5j wrote

[deleted]

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EatThatShitPitt t1_ivh81up wrote

You’re a liar.

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IceMan_674 t1_ivhatdl wrote

agreed. he is for sure watching them still

4

atjones111 t1_ivgv3cl wrote

Everything you said is true but, take a look At the other countries it’s been held in Qatar is not doing as near as many terrible things as places it’s been held

−19

goatonaroof t1_ivgw0wp wrote

examples? (and commas)

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JBow87 t1_ivgx07u wrote

Well before this one it was Russia, so there is one.

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MozeltovCocktaiI t1_ivgxnik wrote

Russia 2018, Brazil 2014, South Africa 2010, 1978 Argentina, 1934 Italy are the ones that come to mind most readily. All are either mega-corrupt at best and human-rights lax or straight up disappearing people at worst

3

[deleted] t1_ivgyai7 wrote

good on you for supporting the regime. toe that line brother ✊🫡

−2

MellowYell-o t1_ivia0ma wrote

Pretty sure I read the death penalty for having sexual whilst at Qatar. Put the most talented and famous footballers in Qatar for a few weeks. Let see what happens.

0

Fryceratops t1_ivg0txn wrote

And hopefully people don't watch at all.

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regulatorj t1_ivg9kq1 wrote

Well they will won't they, you know that.

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pizza-yolo t1_ivghuik wrote

I know I will!

16

[deleted] t1_ivgtl5r wrote

[deleted]

−23

DfenselessOldLady t1_ivh24ya wrote

You’re living in a dream world if you think people are not going to watch because of the corruption. They wait 4 years for this. Shouldn’t it be on FIFA? They gave them the bid

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Fryceratops t1_ivh2tik wrote

And when FIFA drops the ball it us up to the individual to not support this.

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Lego105 t1_ivi24wg wrote

You the individual and us the collective aren’t going to affect anything watched by half the globe, whether you or anyone here supports it or not is irrelevant to them. This isn’t even something the entirety of Europe and the USA audiences could have a major effect on, which realistically are the only two places that give a shit.

In a situation like this where you are completely powerless, you might as well choose the option which benefits you the most rather than having grandeur fantasies about having an effect on the world.

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Fryceratops t1_ivj44ty wrote

If no individual ever attempts to change than no one can ever expect things to change.

0

Kn0where009 t1_ivge34h wrote

I’m out of the loop, why shouldn’t people watch?

4

getyourrealfakedoors t1_ivgelpr wrote

Because due to a long string of corruption, it’s in Qatar, where it will be played in stadiums built with slave labor

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CaptainOktoberfest t1_ivgjjx9 wrote

Slave labor where close to 10,000 slaves died. Qatar would work them to death in the heat and without safety devices.

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HowBen t1_ivgsvf2 wrote

That number is inaccurate, by a lot. But you're right about the conditions

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236766 t1_ivguu5g wrote

Do you have a more accurate number? Are you saying higher or lower? Appreciate the info!

3

HowBen t1_ivgx5yr wrote

I think 10000 or other similar figures are probably extrapolations of the 6500 figure that the guardian reported, which is the count of all South-Asian* migrant deaths between 2011 and 2020.

That's still a pretty iffy number to use as a measure of deaths due to WC related exploitation, since it includes migrants from any occupation as well as death from any cause. In a country where South-Asian immigrants make up something like 30-40% of the population of 290000 people, 6500 deaths over a 10 year period doesnt sound that bad.

According the article i linked, the embassies of the origin countries only attribute a small percentage of those deaths to workplace accidents. Most are attributed to "natural causes", and this is where the article and other sources raise contentions since the data standards arent always that great.

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atjones111 t1_ivgvd4l wrote

Yea because it wasn’t hosted in Russia Brazil South Africa the past 3 years all countries with questionable actions

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getyourrealfakedoors t1_ivh975i wrote

You’re just further pointing out FIFA’s corruption

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atjones111 t1_ivhaztx wrote

Well yea fifas corrupt but so are/were the countries

0

getyourrealfakedoors t1_ivhcu2g wrote

Sure, but Qatar is taking it to an atrocious level

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atjones111 t1_ivhfz8a wrote

Russia was butchering people in a foreign country as they hosted a World Cup Qatar is honestly the least problem some host, tbh I’m not saying you are but in general I feel like the outrage just stems from islamaphobia again not saying you you are by any means, I just feel like Qatar has done the least troublesome things compared to all previous hosts

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getyourrealfakedoors t1_ivhgfc7 wrote

True, I’m against migrant workers having their passports stolen and being forced to build billions of dollars worth of stadiums in appalling conditions in a barely inhabitable desert to line the pockets of blood oil tycoons because I hate Muslims, you got me

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atjones111 t1_ivhjfq3 wrote

I literally didn’t say that and I agree with you, im just talking about the overall outrage I literally said I do not think you are part of that group

1

Kn0where009 t1_ivgg7bi wrote

I see, didn’t know where it was being held this time around. Thanks for the info!

2

ManningTheGOAT t1_ivgftnk wrote

Stadiums built on the graves of 6.5k migrant workers along with a string of other human rights violations.

3

minos157 t1_ivghagn wrote

Qatar is bad, but the 6500 number is not the number dead due to stadiums being built.

​

Let's not use misinformation to get our point across.

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Rumpisthedevil t1_ivgkmfz wrote

I don’t know what information you’ve read but 6500 migrant workers dead in a country is a big problem. According to the article this guy is probably referencing its 12 workers a week. That’s able bodied working age men expecting to do hard work dropping dead. That shouldn’t happen.

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minos157 t1_ivglo59 wrote

6500 migrant workers have died in Qatar since work began on the stadiums whatever amount of years ago. That figure includes ALL death, not just construction related let alone on the world cup specifically. Die by heart attack in old age? Counted, get hit crossing the street by a car? Counted.

Many of the workers are Indians, the death rate in Qatar for them is less than at home.

That's the point. The 6500 is being used with misleading headlines to make Qatar look bad. Qatar doesn't need help looking bad but these misleading stats undermine that by making people more willing to believe Qatar ISN'T that bad and media is just lying to make it LOOK bad.

I'm sorry, I'm in agreement that Qatar is bad, but I will never agree to using misinformation to support my convictions.

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Rumpisthedevil t1_ivgxbco wrote

I mean I get what you’re saying, but for a country of 2.9 million people it seems disproportionately high. Accidents happen but I think the question is how many would have been preventable through a reasonable duty of care.

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minos157 t1_ivgzvbz wrote

The average is too high, don't get me wrong. At about 650 a year or 12 a week, that's insane, but it's not all related to the world cup. I'm having trouble finding stats from before ten years ago to compare to though so I won't make any claims that it is equal, it could be higher due to the world cup.

The main point I'm aiming for is that 6500 number is constantly incorrectly applied.

At the end of the day, fuck Qatar and fuck FIFA either way.

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chrisb993 t1_ivglict wrote

There's more to a World Cup than a bunch of stadiums- it's all of the infrastructure required to host a major tournament that Qatar didn't have to start with.

So while Qatar will very correctly say only a few people have died building stadiums, that isn't the true human cost of the World Cup.

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minos157 t1_ivgm785 wrote

The migrant worker death figure is just migrant workers that have died in Qatar during that period. It is not related to construction specifically. It includes all forms of death. The 6500 number is wrongly used and I'm not ok with that.

Shit even if zero workers died we'd have a good argument against Qatar hosting this world cup, why use incorrectly applied data to prove a point that doesn't need help proving?

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BreatheMyStink t1_ivin3z7 wrote

Hope in one hand and shit in the other and tell me which fills first.

1

Kaung1999 t1_ivg91h1 wrote

Messi has a better shot at winning this year. Argentina’s squad looks pretty good.

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repniclewis t1_ivgjov3 wrote

So does Portugal's squad, maybe a bit top heavy. The problem with Portugal is Santos (and partly Ronaldo)

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-Basileus t1_ivhdapb wrote

Yeah their manager is a football terrorist. Portugal is loaded with talent

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Kaung1999 t1_ivgkmmy wrote

Yeah I know they have some city players. I am just weighing toward Argentina cause of the copa America win. We will see how things turn out but both teams are still below Brazil. I think they take this one.

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2112flybynight t1_ivh1op5 wrote

I mean Italy won the euros and failed to qualify for the World Cup again so that doesn’t really mean anything

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Kaung1999 t1_ivh3vgs wrote

I mean you can’t really compare the two. Italy did terrible for the qualifiers while Argentina did great. I believe Argentina is in its best form ever. But like I said in the other comment, World Cup is very hectic. We have seen a lot of crazy turn of events like Germany Vs Korea so who knows really.

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ArcticFox59 t1_ivxsbz4 wrote

Argentina are now 2nd favorites to lift the trophy, while Portugal is 8th.

In 2018, Argentina were 5th and Portugal 9th.

In 2014, Argentina were 2nd and Portugal 9th.

In 2010, Argentina were 4th and Portugal ranged from 8th to 13th.

In 2006, Argentina were joint 2nd and Portugal 9th.

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DfenselessOldLady t1_ivh1wvo wrote

France is going to win again they are STACKED. Better chance than Portugal and Argentina imo

−2

Kaung1999 t1_ivh2v55 wrote

France is plagued with injuries and the news of Varane playing just came out today. Brazil is more stacked in my eyes.

My bet is either Brazil, Belgium or Argentina. We know how the World Cup goes anyway, there are going to be disappointments and surprises. That’s why I love it.

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ThereIsBearCum t1_ivhxjp9 wrote

They shit the bed every other tournament. Their group is very weak, so I don't see them not making it out of it, but wouldn't be surprised if they were eliminated in the round of 16.

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Lego105 t1_ivi0zmr wrote

They aren’t exactly a shoe in, they’ve got a completely different team since four years ago and not necessarily one with a lot of chemistry. Look at how they did in the Nations League and the Euros. It isn’t as simple as players who are good in their club setup equalling a winning national team.

1

[deleted] t1_ivgyx6k wrote

I'm not going to boycott Qatar and won't judge people that watch it, but I'm also not going to go out of my way to watch the matches like I do for every World Cup.

I'm definitely not excited for this World Cup, it's a shame that FIFA never reversed their decision, even after the FBI raid.

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chattywww t1_ivie7bj wrote

Hows boycott it supposed to even work. All the sports bar will pay for streaming service. Also sports channel subscriptions is paid for regardless if you watch it or not. I never pay to watch it anyway. My country broadcasts all the matches for free.

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shudnap t1_ivgfnzf wrote

Neither will.

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RTwhyNot t1_ivgsh1i wrote

Boycotting that corrupt (more so than normal) fiasco. And WC Soccer is the fucking best.

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n1th4wk t1_ivh07oo wrote

Is it somehow still a boycott if we stream the games we watch? Does that bring down the ratings in a way?

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DfenselessOldLady t1_ivh2d10 wrote

If you think your single viewership will affect the billions of dollars in Qatar you are sadly mistaken. Seems like people are wanting to boycott just to virtue signal to others

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ThereIsBearCum t1_ivhy6h5 wrote

Do you avoid littering? One person putting their rubbish in the bin won't affect the billions of tonnes of rubbish that ends up in the ocean, but I'm sure you do it anyway, and I doubt it's because you want to virtue signal.

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Lego105 t1_ivi2kfu wrote

You’re comparing littering on your local area comprised of at most a few hundred thousand at a time to a 3,500,000,000 viewership sporting event having even a few million not watching it. Not comparable, it’s a virtue signal at best and delusion at worst.

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ThereIsBearCum t1_ivi46d5 wrote

No, I'm comparing it to a litterer's effect on the amount of rubbish in the ocean.

Besides, how does scale change the comparison? 1 person doing something wrong doesn't mean that 10 people doing it would be right.

−2

Lego105 t1_ivi4mdy wrote

What exactly is the purpose of a boycott if not to have an effect on the thing being boycott? Which you can’t do when you are being outcompeted but an unfathomable amount of people.

If it was all about doing the right thing and that human rights and deaths over slave Labour couldn’t be abided by no matter what, you wouldn’t have a phone or computer to use Reddit with made by the same type of impoverished workers who die in the conditions they work in to make them in the same sort of horrific political systems and countries, same with literally anything made from metal, rubber and any number of natural resources. But you don’t boycott them, because it isn’t about that is it?

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ThereIsBearCum t1_ivi5aw4 wrote

So why don't you litter?

I own a phone because I need it to participate in society. I don't have a choice in that. All of us have a choice on whether or not we boycott the World Cup this year.

−1

Lego105 t1_ivi6fsv wrote

I don’t litter because it has tangible consequences, it causes disease to spread and it can kill animals directly as a result of my actions. That is true regardless of whether those around me litter or not.

You don’t need a phone to participate in society, that’s an excuse and you know it. If you believe an excuse so pathetic excuses the death, labour and human rights abuses in third world countries used to make your phone you’re more deluded than I thought. You use a phone because it’s convenient, it provides you with a better standard of living at the cost of someone’s human rights being abused to bring it to you directly. You have as much choice on having a phone as you do watching the World Cup. If right and wrong truly mattered to you, you wouldn’t have a phone which brings about much more tangible consequences than watching or not watching the World Cup ever would. Like I said, right and wrong doesn’t come into it.

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ThereIsBearCum t1_iviae2u wrote

Watching the World Cup has tangible consequences. It tells FIFA that you're ok with their choice of host working people to death to make it happen. It also tells them that you're ok with ignoring their choice of host's human rights situation.

> You don’t need a phone to participate in society

I don't think you acutally believe that. If you do, try it for a month and see how far you get.

0

hmgg t1_ivis68j wrote

There are people who don't use smartphones, you know that right?

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ThereIsBearCum t1_ivis80u wrote

Are you one of them?

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hmgg t1_ivish83 wrote

No, because I don't give a shit. I'll also watch the WC because me not watching will make 0 difference. However there are plenty of people (some of whom I know) that don't have smartphones and they live just fine lives. Almost as if society survived without them until 15 years ago.

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ThereIsBearCum t1_ivisoxm wrote

Try living without one for a month then if you stand by that claim.

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hmgg t1_ivistsf wrote

Why should I? As I said, I don't care. I also don't use my phone every day like most people. Just because you can't comprehend something, doesn't mean it's not realistic. P.S. No, I'm not a boomer

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ThereIsBearCum t1_ivisyob wrote

If you don't care, why'd you comment?

0

hmgg t1_ivit69g wrote

I don't care about protesting something is what I meant. You're acting like having a phone is a life vital thing and I just wanted to give my perspective: I know people who choose not to have smartphone because it makes them happier so it's not even realated to a moral issue. So it's very much possible to live without one.

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ThereIsBearCum t1_ivithya wrote

So what do these people do in society? How do they participate in it without a phone?

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hmgg t1_ivitp6c wrote

I'm sorry but that's such a ridiculous question that I'm gonna have to stop here. I really hope you're 12-14 years old because if you're an adult, there are some problems here.

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ThereIsBearCum t1_ivittmt wrote

You say they exist and participate in society. I don't believe you, so I'm asking you to back it up. This is pretty simple man. If you made these people up, just say so.

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Steedy999 t1_ivh3xvt wrote

Just watch it on tv and live your life, not going to make a difference of you stream it lol

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ThereIsBearCum t1_ivhyjna wrote

I'd be surprised if FIFA and advertisers didn't factor in the number of viewers they get from illegal streams when signing their contracts.

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ANK_Ricky t1_ivhef3q wrote

Fuck Qatar, I’m here for football.

2

BMB281 t1_ivhix9u wrote

Why does Messi look like he’s in a emo high school band?

1

nzox t1_ivhmdiq wrote

Messi needs this. Ronaldo has a Euro win. Sure Messi has a Copa America, but those two are not seen equal.

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Unique-Ad-4716 t1_ivkxt1c wrote

Messi carried argentina to a copa america, ronaldo was a cheerleader. Messi is more impressive

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nzox t1_ivlb74v wrote

Euro > Copa. Regardless of how they got it or who they faced, Euros is undeniably a harder competition and more prestigious.

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dotelze t1_iw7hfeo wrote

Messi doesn’t meet it. He’s already ahead of ronaldo. If you just look at noting but the fact ronaldo won the euros then sure it’s better than messis copa but if you look into them in any more detail it’s Messi was more impressive

1

genkaiX1 t1_ivhsjpr wrote

Really hope Messi wins

1

honcooge t1_ivj4j4g wrote

A United States tie with England is all I want. My Scottish co-worker would be happy too.

1

lndw20 t1_ivghcs8 wrote

People not watching are lame af. Just pirate it

−1

kantorr t1_ivgukzz wrote

You not watching doesn't matter.

That said, Messi quits the national team after every tourney loss, if he doesn't win this year he'll be back for another tourney, not sure about another WC though.

−3

MrHollandsOpium t1_ivgem0o wrote

People realize every world cup is corrupt and faces abuses to some degree, right? Same with the olympics? We can’t enjoy sport we have to NOT watch? And we have to announce that in threads about the topic so people know we care? Seems odd to me. I hope Messi or Ronaldo might capitalize and bookend tremendous careers but Brazil—phew. They’re looking GOOD this year.

−5

PuffsMagicDrag t1_ivgin8k wrote

Every World Cup has been corrupt because FIFA is corrupt. HOWEVER the other nations who recently hosted the world cup had existing infrastructure & didn’t have horrific work conditions (especially due to the heat). So it’s wrong to compare them as the exact same. No World Cup in the history of world cups has had a nation build as much as Qatar has, just look how much they’ve spent compared to the previous hosts. It’s insane

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BradMarchandsNose t1_ivgmqci wrote

7 of the 8 stadiums hosting games were built in the past 3 years and the 8th one underwent pretty significant renovations after their bid was successful. It’s crazy how much they’ve had to build.

4

DrJuanZoidberg t1_ivk3oat wrote

There is a difference between the usual money laundering of other events and literal slave labour

0

MrHollandsOpium t1_ivk4h78 wrote

You know that in Brazil for their World Cup that they literally demolished folks homes and in other locations similar events happened, too? SA had immense protest around wage inequality and the police cracked down hard on certain demographics. Qatar has had slave labor scenarios since before the World Cup. Almost all of those countries in that region experience the growth they do because of it. But now people give a shit and are gonna protest the event? I’m not buyin’ it.

2

DrJuanZoidberg t1_ivki8zw wrote

Some people have a line they don’t want to cross. That line changes for everyone. Eminent domaine and wage inequality just aren’t as bad as tricking a bunch of South East Asians to work for you and then practically put them into slavery by confiscating their passports and giving them wages so paltry they can’t even afford to go back to their families

1

CanadianMapleThunder t1_ivgokgt wrote

Yeah but this time is different because the host nation is an Arab one. They’re the bad guys. /s

−4

MrHollandsOpium t1_ivh5y7x wrote

Lol, seems to be that way. Sepp Blatter is a scumbag and ALWAYS has been.

3

flyover_liberal t1_ivh65s7 wrote

> Yeah but this time is different because the host nation is an Arab one. investigations have fully revealed the depths of corruption FIFA and Qatar engaged in to bring the WC there, and thousands of slaves have died building the venues

FTFY

3

[deleted] t1_ivfp71p wrote

[deleted]

−24

r3q t1_ivfxnfj wrote

Messi. More to the game than just finishing.

12

Viscaelcule t1_ivfzrtu wrote

Messi plays for results, Ronaldo plays for Ronaldo

10

NONCES_R_ADMINS t1_ivi1379 wrote

WTF does this even mean?

Messi has a better work rate off the ball? That's not true.

Messi cares when the team loses, Ronaldo doesn't? I can pull up a bunch of archival footage of Ronaldo being in tears after winning and losing with Portugal.

So respectfully, stop chatting rubbish. I swear to God, the worst thing about Messi are his bot fanboys. They can't ever praise him without shitting on Ronaldo.

1

Viscaelcule t1_ivp99sw wrote

I can show you probably as many videos of Ronaldo crying cus he didn’t get the pass and complaining about it mid play. Also the footage of him barely cracking a smile after winning a game he failed to score in.

Of course he cares if his team wins or loses ya dunce.

1

NONCES_R_ADMINS t1_ivpqq4o wrote

>Of course he cares if his team wins or loses ya dunce.

-You

>Messi plays for results, Ronaldo plays for Ronaldo

- Also you

>Also the footage of him barely cracking a smile after winning a game he failed to score in.

Even if that were true, what the hell is this criticism, lmao?

1

Viscaelcule t1_ivw45p1 wrote

I love that you take such care in your layout. It’s cute 😚

1

kizzay t1_ivgfvou wrote

Messi, because we are the same height.

2

Sometimes_Stutters t1_ivft6zw wrote

Both over-rated. I’d take Zlatan, Rooney, or Neymar over them any day

−43

bonelessfork t1_ivg6bor wrote

All amazing players, but Messi and Ronaldo objectively sit at a tier above them.

6

newaccount721 t1_ivgg8cy wrote

Like you would take prime of his career Neymar over prime of their career Ronaldo or Messi?

2

partizan92 t1_ivg3kks wrote

Terrible take. Maybe slightly overrated in their all-time standing but certainly a level above those 3.

1