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Fryceratops t1_ivg0txn wrote

And hopefully people don't watch at all.

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Kaung1999 t1_ivg91h1 wrote

Messi has a better shot at winning this year. Argentina’s squad looks pretty good.

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MrHollandsOpium t1_ivgem0o wrote

People realize every world cup is corrupt and faces abuses to some degree, right? Same with the olympics? We can’t enjoy sport we have to NOT watch? And we have to announce that in threads about the topic so people know we care? Seems odd to me. I hope Messi or Ronaldo might capitalize and bookend tremendous careers but Brazil—phew. They’re looking GOOD this year.

−5

lndw20 t1_ivghcs8 wrote

People not watching are lame af. Just pirate it

−1

PuffsMagicDrag t1_ivgin8k wrote

Replying to MrHollandsOpium (#466,451)

Every World Cup has been corrupt because FIFA is corrupt. HOWEVER the other nations who recently hosted the world cup had existing infrastructure & didn’t have horrific work conditions (especially due to the heat). So it’s wrong to compare them as the exact same. No World Cup in the history of world cups has had a nation build as much as Qatar has, just look how much they’ve spent compared to the previous hosts. It’s insane

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Rumpisthedevil t1_ivgkmfz wrote

Replying to minos157 (#466,618)

I don’t know what information you’ve read but 6500 migrant workers dead in a country is a big problem. According to the article this guy is probably referencing its 12 workers a week. That’s able bodied working age men expecting to do hard work dropping dead. That shouldn’t happen.

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Kaung1999 t1_ivgkmmy wrote

Replying to repniclewis (#466,755)

Yeah I know they have some city players. I am just weighing toward Argentina cause of the copa America win. We will see how things turn out but both teams are still below Brazil. I think they take this one.

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chrisb993 t1_ivglict wrote

Replying to minos157 (#466,618)

There's more to a World Cup than a bunch of stadiums- it's all of the infrastructure required to host a major tournament that Qatar didn't have to start with.

So while Qatar will very correctly say only a few people have died building stadiums, that isn't the true human cost of the World Cup.

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minos157 t1_ivglo59 wrote

Replying to Rumpisthedevil (#466,804)

6500 migrant workers have died in Qatar since work began on the stadiums whatever amount of years ago. That figure includes ALL death, not just construction related let alone on the world cup specifically. Die by heart attack in old age? Counted, get hit crossing the street by a car? Counted.

Many of the workers are Indians, the death rate in Qatar for them is less than at home.

That's the point. The 6500 is being used with misleading headlines to make Qatar look bad. Qatar doesn't need help looking bad but these misleading stats undermine that by making people more willing to believe Qatar ISN'T that bad and media is just lying to make it LOOK bad.

I'm sorry, I'm in agreement that Qatar is bad, but I will never agree to using misinformation to support my convictions.

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minos157 t1_ivgm785 wrote

Replying to chrisb993 (#466,852)

The migrant worker death figure is just migrant workers that have died in Qatar during that period. It is not related to construction specifically. It includes all forms of death. The 6500 number is wrongly used and I'm not ok with that.

Shit even if zero workers died we'd have a good argument against Qatar hosting this world cup, why use incorrectly applied data to prove a point that doesn't need help proving?

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RTwhyNot t1_ivgsh1i wrote

Boycotting that corrupt (more so than normal) fiasco. And WC Soccer is the fucking best.

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29PiecesOfSilver OP t1_ivgt7yq wrote

Replying to salazar_0333 (#466,231)

Exactly. Qatar has been criticised for its stance on same-sex relationships, its human rights record and its treatment of migrant workers. As much as I love the sport, players and have not missed a single World Cup since Diego Maradona scored his “Hand of God” goal against England in 1986… I, for one, would not be able to forgive myself for supporting a World Cup hosted by Qatar with Iran or Russia playing and, as a result, unfortunately I am going to be busy painting my pretty little toenails and dyeing my hair this year.

Edit: Serious answer - I also post articles about Russia, China, Iran & North Korea… Not because I am promoting them, but because I want to bring attention to the atrocities they commit.

I don’t need anymore of ‘that sweet important Reddit karma’, as you so explicitly put it as I have earned enough front page karma in the last 3 months to last me a lifetime. However, I am glad that some trolls can earn karma at my expense. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Oh, and BTW… I am not a ‘liar’ or a ‘he’ 🤦‍♀️

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kantorr t1_ivgukzz wrote

You not watching doesn't matter.

That said, Messi quits the national team after every tourney loss, if he doesn't win this year he'll be back for another tourney, not sure about another WC though.

−3

HowBen t1_ivgx5yr wrote

Replying to 236766 (#467,374)

I think 10000 or other similar figures are probably extrapolations of the 6500 figure that the guardian reported, which is the count of all South-Asian* migrant deaths between 2011 and 2020.

That's still a pretty iffy number to use as a measure of deaths due to WC related exploitation, since it includes migrants from any occupation as well as death from any cause. In a country where South-Asian immigrants make up something like 30-40% of the population of 290000 people, 6500 deaths over a 10 year period doesnt sound that bad.

According the article i linked, the embassies of the origin countries only attribute a small percentage of those deaths to workplace accidents. Most are attributed to "natural causes", and this is where the article and other sources raise contentions since the data standards arent always that great.

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Rumpisthedevil t1_ivgxbco wrote

Replying to minos157 (#466,866)

I mean I get what you’re saying, but for a country of 2.9 million people it seems disproportionately high. Accidents happen but I think the question is how many would have been preventable through a reasonable duty of care.

2

MozeltovCocktaiI t1_ivgxnik wrote

Replying to goatonaroof (#467,433)

Russia 2018, Brazil 2014, South Africa 2010, 1978 Argentina, 1934 Italy are the ones that come to mind most readily. All are either mega-corrupt at best and human-rights lax or straight up disappearing people at worst

3

[deleted] t1_ivgyx6k wrote

I'm not going to boycott Qatar and won't judge people that watch it, but I'm also not going to go out of my way to watch the matches like I do for every World Cup.

I'm definitely not excited for this World Cup, it's a shame that FIFA never reversed their decision, even after the FBI raid.

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minos157 t1_ivgzvbz wrote

Replying to Rumpisthedevil (#467,509)

The average is too high, don't get me wrong. At about 650 a year or 12 a week, that's insane, but it's not all related to the world cup. I'm having trouble finding stats from before ten years ago to compare to though so I won't make any claims that it is equal, it could be higher due to the world cup.

The main point I'm aiming for is that 6500 number is constantly incorrectly applied.

At the end of the day, fuck Qatar and fuck FIFA either way.

4

n1th4wk t1_ivh07oo wrote

Is it somehow still a boycott if we stream the games we watch? Does that bring down the ratings in a way?

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Kaung1999 t1_ivh2v55 wrote

Replying to DfenselessOldLady (#467,810)

France is plagued with injuries and the news of Varane playing just came out today. Brazil is more stacked in my eyes.

My bet is either Brazil, Belgium or Argentina. We know how the World Cup goes anyway, there are going to be disappointments and surprises. That’s why I love it.

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Kaung1999 t1_ivh3vgs wrote

Replying to 2112flybynight (#467,795)

I mean you can’t really compare the two. Italy did terrible for the qualifiers while Argentina did great. I believe Argentina is in its best form ever. But like I said in the other comment, World Cup is very hectic. We have seen a lot of crazy turn of events like Germany Vs Korea so who knows really.

5

flyover_liberal t1_ivh65s7 wrote

Replying to CanadianMapleThunder (#467,013)

> Yeah but this time is different because the host nation is an Arab one. investigations have fully revealed the depths of corruption FIFA and Qatar engaged in to bring the WC there, and thousands of slaves have died building the venues

FTFY

3

ANK_Ricky t1_ivhef3q wrote

Fuck Qatar, I’m here for football.

2

atjones111 t1_ivhfz8a wrote

Replying to getyourrealfakedoors (#468,531)

Russia was butchering people in a foreign country as they hosted a World Cup Qatar is honestly the least problem some host, tbh I’m not saying you are but in general I feel like the outrage just stems from islamaphobia again not saying you you are by any means, I just feel like Qatar has done the least troublesome things compared to all previous hosts

3

getyourrealfakedoors t1_ivhgfc7 wrote

Replying to atjones111 (#468,773)

True, I’m against migrant workers having their passports stolen and being forced to build billions of dollars worth of stadiums in appalling conditions in a barely inhabitable desert to line the pockets of blood oil tycoons because I hate Muslims, you got me

2

BMB281 t1_ivhix9u wrote

Why does Messi look like he’s in a emo high school band?

1

nzox t1_ivhmdiq wrote

Messi needs this. Ronaldo has a Euro win. Sure Messi has a Copa America, but those two are not seen equal.

1

genkaiX1 t1_ivhsjpr wrote

Really hope Messi wins

1

ThereIsBearCum t1_ivhy6h5 wrote

Replying to DfenselessOldLady (#467,838)

Do you avoid littering? One person putting their rubbish in the bin won't affect the billions of tonnes of rubbish that ends up in the ocean, but I'm sure you do it anyway, and I doubt it's because you want to virtue signal.

2

Lego105 t1_ivi0zmr wrote

Replying to DfenselessOldLady (#467,810)

They aren’t exactly a shoe in, they’ve got a completely different team since four years ago and not necessarily one with a lot of chemistry. Look at how they did in the Nations League and the Euros. It isn’t as simple as players who are good in their club setup equalling a winning national team.

1

NONCES_R_ADMINS t1_ivi1379 wrote

Replying to Viscaelcule (#465,597)

WTF does this even mean?

Messi has a better work rate off the ball? That's not true.

Messi cares when the team loses, Ronaldo doesn't? I can pull up a bunch of archival footage of Ronaldo being in tears after winning and losing with Portugal.

So respectfully, stop chatting rubbish. I swear to God, the worst thing about Messi are his bot fanboys. They can't ever praise him without shitting on Ronaldo.

1

Lego105 t1_ivi24wg wrote

Replying to Fryceratops (#467,865)

You the individual and us the collective aren’t going to affect anything watched by half the globe, whether you or anyone here supports it or not is irrelevant to them. This isn’t even something the entirety of Europe and the USA audiences could have a major effect on, which realistically are the only two places that give a shit.

In a situation like this where you are completely powerless, you might as well choose the option which benefits you the most rather than having grandeur fantasies about having an effect on the world.

2

Lego105 t1_ivi2kfu wrote

Replying to ThereIsBearCum (#469,965)

You’re comparing littering on your local area comprised of at most a few hundred thousand at a time to a 3,500,000,000 viewership sporting event having even a few million not watching it. Not comparable, it’s a virtue signal at best and delusion at worst.

2

ThereIsBearCum t1_ivi46d5 wrote

Replying to Lego105 (#470,236)

No, I'm comparing it to a litterer's effect on the amount of rubbish in the ocean.

Besides, how does scale change the comparison? 1 person doing something wrong doesn't mean that 10 people doing it would be right.

−2

Lego105 t1_ivi4mdy wrote

Replying to ThereIsBearCum (#470,347)

What exactly is the purpose of a boycott if not to have an effect on the thing being boycott? Which you can’t do when you are being outcompeted but an unfathomable amount of people.

If it was all about doing the right thing and that human rights and deaths over slave Labour couldn’t be abided by no matter what, you wouldn’t have a phone or computer to use Reddit with made by the same type of impoverished workers who die in the conditions they work in to make them in the same sort of horrific political systems and countries, same with literally anything made from metal, rubber and any number of natural resources. But you don’t boycott them, because it isn’t about that is it?

1

ThereIsBearCum t1_ivi5aw4 wrote

Replying to Lego105 (#470,381)

So why don't you litter?

I own a phone because I need it to participate in society. I don't have a choice in that. All of us have a choice on whether or not we boycott the World Cup this year.

−1

Lego105 t1_ivi6fsv wrote

Replying to ThereIsBearCum (#470,426)

I don’t litter because it has tangible consequences, it causes disease to spread and it can kill animals directly as a result of my actions. That is true regardless of whether those around me litter or not.

You don’t need a phone to participate in society, that’s an excuse and you know it. If you believe an excuse so pathetic excuses the death, labour and human rights abuses in third world countries used to make your phone you’re more deluded than I thought. You use a phone because it’s convenient, it provides you with a better standard of living at the cost of someone’s human rights being abused to bring it to you directly. You have as much choice on having a phone as you do watching the World Cup. If right and wrong truly mattered to you, you wouldn’t have a phone which brings about much more tangible consequences than watching or not watching the World Cup ever would. Like I said, right and wrong doesn’t come into it.

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ThereIsBearCum t1_iviae2u wrote

Replying to Lego105 (#470,499)

Watching the World Cup has tangible consequences. It tells FIFA that you're ok with their choice of host working people to death to make it happen. It also tells them that you're ok with ignoring their choice of host's human rights situation.

> You don’t need a phone to participate in society

I don't think you acutally believe that. If you do, try it for a month and see how far you get.

0

chattywww t1_ivie7bj wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#467,614)

Hows boycott it supposed to even work. All the sports bar will pay for streaming service. Also sports channel subscriptions is paid for regardless if you watch it or not. I never pay to watch it anyway. My country broadcasts all the matches for free.

3

hmgg t1_ivish83 wrote

Replying to ThereIsBearCum (#471,556)

No, because I don't give a shit. I'll also watch the WC because me not watching will make 0 difference. However there are plenty of people (some of whom I know) that don't have smartphones and they live just fine lives. Almost as if society survived without them until 15 years ago.

1

hmgg t1_ivistsf wrote

Replying to ThereIsBearCum (#471,571)

Why should I? As I said, I don't care. I also don't use my phone every day like most people. Just because you can't comprehend something, doesn't mean it's not realistic. P.S. No, I'm not a boomer

1

hmgg t1_ivit69g wrote

Replying to ThereIsBearCum (#471,581)

I don't care about protesting something is what I meant. You're acting like having a phone is a life vital thing and I just wanted to give my perspective: I know people who choose not to have smartphone because it makes them happier so it's not even realated to a moral issue. So it's very much possible to live without one.

1

hmgg t1_ivitp6c wrote

Replying to ThereIsBearCum (#471,612)

I'm sorry but that's such a ridiculous question that I'm gonna have to stop here. I really hope you're 12-14 years old because if you're an adult, there are some problems here.

1

ThereIsBearCum t1_ivittmt wrote

Replying to hmgg (#471,620)

You say they exist and participate in society. I don't believe you, so I'm asking you to back it up. This is pretty simple man. If you made these people up, just say so.

1

honcooge t1_ivj4j4g wrote

A United States tie with England is all I want. My Scottish co-worker would be happy too.

1

MrHollandsOpium t1_ivk4h78 wrote

Replying to DrJuanZoidberg (#473,923)

You know that in Brazil for their World Cup that they literally demolished folks homes and in other locations similar events happened, too? SA had immense protest around wage inequality and the police cracked down hard on certain demographics. Qatar has had slave labor scenarios since before the World Cup. Almost all of those countries in that region experience the growth they do because of it. But now people give a shit and are gonna protest the event? I’m not buyin’ it.

2

DrJuanZoidberg t1_ivki8zw wrote

Replying to MrHollandsOpium (#473,986)

Some people have a line they don’t want to cross. That line changes for everyone. Eminent domaine and wage inequality just aren’t as bad as tricking a bunch of South East Asians to work for you and then practically put them into slavery by confiscating their passports and giving them wages so paltry they can’t even afford to go back to their families

1

Viscaelcule t1_ivp99sw wrote

Replying to NONCES_R_ADMINS (#470,137)

I can show you probably as many videos of Ronaldo crying cus he didn’t get the pass and complaining about it mid play. Also the footage of him barely cracking a smile after winning a game he failed to score in.

Of course he cares if his team wins or loses ya dunce.

1

NONCES_R_ADMINS t1_ivpqq4o wrote

Replying to Viscaelcule (#484,714)

>Of course he cares if his team wins or loses ya dunce.

-You

>Messi plays for results, Ronaldo plays for Ronaldo

- Also you

>Also the footage of him barely cracking a smile after winning a game he failed to score in.

Even if that were true, what the hell is this criticism, lmao?

1

ArcticFox59 t1_ivxsbz4 wrote

Replying to Kaung1999 (#466,147)

Argentina are now 2nd favorites to lift the trophy, while Portugal is 8th.

In 2018, Argentina were 5th and Portugal 9th.

In 2014, Argentina were 2nd and Portugal 9th.

In 2010, Argentina were 4th and Portugal ranged from 8th to 13th.

In 2006, Argentina were joint 2nd and Portugal 9th.

2

dotelze t1_iw7hfeo wrote

Replying to nzox (#476,444)

Messi doesn’t meet it. He’s already ahead of ronaldo. If you just look at noting but the fact ronaldo won the euros then sure it’s better than messis copa but if you look into them in any more detail it’s Messi was more impressive

1