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raylan_givens6 t1_izmmd04 wrote

based on what evidence?

he said he hadn't been feeling well for a while

and he collapsed in a public space , probably a cardiac arrest

sounds like his brother is trying to find some deeper reason where none exists or maybe he's hoping his brother becomes some martyr....

despite people's prejudices they have to ask themselves , what good what it do for qatar to "murder" this guy?

they're interested in making money, promoting themselves as an economic hub, and this WC is their prime opportunity to do so. what good what it do to murder an American journalist?

cause he wore a rainbow t-shirt a few days ago? oh please

he's not a martyr. he wasn't killed. sadly, he just died, it happens.


wolfpack1986 t1_iznrdld wrote

Grief is challenging and takes you in weird places. As a medical professional, this sounds like a missed unstable angina that turned into a massive MI. Happens and it’s terrible.


ProtoplanetaryNebula t1_iznpyzu wrote

Indeed. Everyone who wear rainbow shirts was asked to change them or cover them up or whatever, there were probably more than 10k people this happened to. Qatar is not going to arrange to kill anyone for wearing a rainbow shirt, they don't like rainbows, but they don't hate them that much.


_The_Bear t1_iznujte wrote

Remember the two English fans who showed up dressed as crusaders in full chainmail? They didn't wind up dead, that's way more offensive than a rainbow shirt.


Ubermenschen t1_iznyu3e wrote

Neither is offensive, but Qatar still lives in the 13th century.


ProtoplanetaryNebula t1_iznz8jp wrote

Not sure what you mean, but they are probably dressed at St.George, who is the patron saint of England and who the St.George flag (England flag) is named after. You see thousands of people dressed like that for England games. The chain mail increases the cost of the outfit, so most opt not to use it.


tribal209 t1_izqgzra wrote

Only difference is those 10 k people don't have a voice, He does.


TrashbatLondon t1_izo5has wrote

He was continually critical of the human rights abuses of an authoritarian regime. It’s hardly the biggest leap in the world to suggest that there might be something suspicious happening.

The idea that the Qatari’s are an innocent bunch of simple business people who just want to promote trade is naive, if not propaganda. They are an awful regime, who disregard human life, including the latest dismissal of the death of a stadium worker, coincidentally the same subject the now dead journalist wrote about the day before he died.


Plantsandanger t1_izpmcrp wrote

I mean, all deaths are accompanied by cardiac arrest - it just means your heart has stopped, which every heart does in death. The issue is WHY/HOW it stopped - what caused the cardiac arrest? Bronchitis on its own doesn’t cause cardiac arrest (myocarditis can, but that’s beyond bronchitis). I’m not saying it was a conspiracy and the guy was killed, but I am saying “he died of cardiac arrest” is about as telling as “he died when his body hit the ground” - WHY did his body hit the ground? Did he fall? Jump? Was he pushed? Was he previously at a great height or did he trip while walking at ground level and only died because his head his a curb? Or did he fall because he was shot or hit by a car and the bit about the ground is a red herring?

I also assume his brother, like most family, is upset over the sudden, unexpected loss of a loved one. And like most family, there’s a good chance one member is a bit of a lunatic, conspiracy theorist, or just prone to lashing out when upset rather than calmly accepting horrific news with the stoicism of a Buddhist monk. So even though I think it’s bs to claim he died of cardiac arrest with zero follow up on what caused the cardiac arrest, I also think that most people would be upset enough to sound crazy after their sibling died, especially if they don’t have answers (because cardiac arrest is not an answer).


kingofwale t1_izno2tp wrote

Who needs evidence when your feeling itself is more valid?


gitty7456 t1_izmknvc wrote

“Wahl suddenly collapsed in the press box of Lusail Iconic Stadium in Doha on December 9, 2022, while covering Argentina's quarterfinal match against the Netherlands.[24][25] Local paramedics responded quickly,[26] and treated him for 30 minutes before taking him to the hospital.[27] Wahl's brother Eric said he was given CPR. Wahl was pronounced dead early on December 10 at a local hospital.[27] Eric Wahl said his brother received death threats and believed Wahl was killed, and said the family is in touch with U.S. State Department and White House officials.”

Five days before his death, Wahl wrote:

“My body finally broke down on me. Three weeks of little sleep, high stress and lots of work can do that to you. What had been a cold over the last 10 days turned into something more severe on the night of the USA-Netherlands game, and I could feel my upper chest take on a new level of pressure and discomfort. I didn’t have Covid (I test regularly here), but I went into the medical clinic at the main media center today, and they said I probably have bronchitis. They gave me a course of antibiotics and some heavy-duty cough syrup, and I’m already feeling a bit better just a few hours later. But still: No bueno.”


dmt_alpha t1_iznk73m wrote

If you continue to work under bronchitis, no wonder there is a risk of cardiac failure. I had COVID two months back. My first confirmed case since the beginning of the pandemic. Fully vaccinated, and did fairly well, so worked throughout the sickness. Until my heart started aching really bad. I was alone with two of the kids at the time. They're 2 and 4. They were watching TV on the sofa, and I was lying right next to them, crying of pain and thinking this was the last time I glanced at them, not going to live to see them grow up, etc... A man needs rest, when sick. Work-related heroics ain't worth wasting your life, and ruining the lives of everyone around.


silveycorp t1_izo7p8z wrote

Yes you need rest. You don’t have a heart attack because of bronchitis. Source: I’m a doctor.


dmt_alpha t1_izo9ip6 wrote

And apparently not a very good doctor. Any source of stress can lead to cardiac arrest, not limited to stepping on a Lego block, auto-erotic asphyxiation and falling from a horse, etc. Suffering from Bronchitis is just another cause of stress for the organism.


ImALilBug t1_izocgd8 wrote

Pretty bold to try to gauge this individuals ability as a physician based on this comment.

“Cardiac arrest” simply means the heart stopped. Literally everyone who has ever died has died because their heart stopped. This is why we write the CAUSE of cardiac arrest on the death certificate: i.e. cardiac arrest secondary to myocardial infarction, hypoxia in the setting of pneumonia, acidosis and multi organ failure in the setting of sepsis.

2 of those stressors don’t result in cardiac arrest without some significant associated pathology. Stepping on a Lego block with severe coronary artery disease could potentially be the tipping point to cause a heart attack. Falling off a horse resulting in blunt cardiac injury causing a fatal arrhythmia. Autoerotic asphyxiation would cause hypoxic respiratory failure which unless reversed would result in cardiac arrest.

Dude is right. “Bronchitis” by itself would not typically cause a myocardial infarction, not unless there was severe underlying coronary disease. What would be much more likely in this case is a viral syndrome/upper respiratory infection that progressed to myocarditis which could certainly result in cardiac arrhythmia/arrest.

Source: also a doctor


silveycorp t1_izoekkr wrote

Nothing to add here. Wasn’t going to go too deep on this seeing that it’s Reddit, but this person deserved it. Thanks

Bottom line: bronchitis does not directly cause cardiac arrest and we would never even worry about it as a potential cause unless an infection progressed to myocarditis.


Plantsandanger t1_izplp46 wrote

How quick can myocardia happen? (I know google can tell me but google also thinks everything is cancer, so I appreciate the human touch)


silveycorp t1_izqjqe6 wrote

It would have to be an very extended illness with zero improvement over a 2-4 week period. But really the likelihood even then is beyond low. We’re talking about two very different kinds of infections that typically driven by differing bacteria/viruses


silveycorp t1_izofgbf wrote

You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about and probably shouldn’t play doctor on Reddit. You’re talking about stress and cardiac arrest from a 100,000 ft view which overlooks the actual underlying cause and physiological reason for the cardiac event.

You can see the other doctors reply to understand more. Good luck, and don’t stress too much about the downvotes.


Theometer1 t1_izox78u wrote

Imagine shaving being your hobby and thinking you know more about cardiac arrest than two actual doctors that spent several years in medical school to get to where they are lmao


cbuzzaustin t1_izohmpj wrote

I had bronchitis earlier this week and i was seriously in bad shape. I was so tired and unable to do anything. Deep coughing. Then a doctor gave me a steroid and a antibiotic and i started rebounding quickly. I also kept drinking water which is important. It’s a serious thing. I also wonder if he had had a booster recently.


Vic_Hedges t1_iznj4vb wrote

An understandable reaction to grief and shock. But probably irresponsible journalism to be reporting stuff with zero evidence.


The_ODB_ t1_izvqyy2 wrote

>87% upvoted

This sub isn't big on evidence.


DanteInferno2142 t1_izn6jwh wrote

He is probably in shock, going to blame whole world for this.


xspacemansplifff t1_izndsc2 wrote

I can sympathize unfortunately. My younger brother was killed in an accident. Negligence on the part of the resort he was staying. I had all kinds of thoughts like this. Mostly based on how I could have saved him. I wasn't there. Felt like I let him down. I know that I didn't and it just happened. Even so. You want to find a way to somehow bring the.back. It sucks.


BodaciousSalacious t1_izpr9kd wrote

Just read this and wanted to say I’m sorry that this happened to you. Sending much love your way.


thehoot79 t1_izoe95f wrote

Not sleeping and overworking yourself when you’re already sick can take your body to some bad places, I would imagine.


Alfred-Fallon-Borden t1_izoeu1m wrote

Idk I feel like as awful as the Qatari regime is, they’re smart enough not to murder a us citizen


Haha_SORRY t1_izq9smg wrote

Would another nation attempt it to put them in a bad light? If he was murdered, it doesn't have to necessarily be at the hands of a qatari agent..


StrngBrew t1_iznyzy9 wrote

Unfortunately social media is letting us watch this poor guy go through the stages of grief in real time.

Sad for him, his family and all US soccer fans for Grant’s loss.


Sids1188 t1_izoc4zb wrote

Seems unlikely, unless there's some more information to come.

I'll keep my eyebrow thoroughly raised though.


Fladap28 t1_izopvph wrote

This is just sad at this point


AJ8710 t1_izpfucs wrote

Given how corrupt that government is, it wouldn't shock me and shame on FIFA for hosting the World Cup there. That said, given what he posted about this health, I still think the most likely reason was genuinely health related.


Disastrous-Group4521 t1_iznspcg wrote

How does someone that is unconscious go from laying on a stretcher to the back of an Uber?

Kind of seems a little fucky


gomurifle t1_izotaix wrote

Should have stopped to get rest. Now he will rest in peace.


CUJO-31 t1_izn2rfj wrote

Yeah, murdered by the corporate machine which was ok with over working him like a slave.


audiotech14 t1_izob15l wrote

It’s very likely he chose to work through it. I can’t imagine any soccer journalist that would willingly take some time off during the World Cup, health be damned.


Johnnadawearsglasses t1_izsdqwm wrote

I don't understand this comment. He is an independent journalist who works for himself.


Nopengnogain t1_izo4ijs wrote

Fairly certain he was self-employed as a content creator.


A_Gent_4Tseven t1_izo33ks wrote

I don’t get the downvote. You’re saying he was “murdered”(died) because he was worked too hard by his actual work… to keep up with reporting..? Right?

Because that’s not wrong..


CUJO-31 t1_izofo1e wrote

Correct, there was a study conducted by Who that concluded Long working hours increases deaths from heart disease and stroke.

In a first global analysis of the loss of life and health associated with working long hours, WHO and ILO estimate that, in 2016, 398 000 people died from stroke and 347 000 from heart disease as a result of having worked at least 55 hours a week.


A_Gent_4Tseven t1_izog920 wrote

This should really be close to the top comment. You’ve got facts and shit to add, plus The conspiracy shit, though “fun”, is severely misleading. That and it’s just a great site to look over and take seriously.

The Qatar government can be real shitbags(just like all governments) but that doesn’t mean it’s the case always.


TylrLS t1_iznqn41 wrote



Choice_Marzipan5322 t1_izo91pm wrote

But folks will keep supporting FIFA and Qatar by being sheep and watching the World Cup. The word has been out years ago regarding the human rights violations.


apex_17 t1_izoe39u wrote

To be fair that game prolly gave a lot of people heart attacks


[deleted] t1_izot3jw wrote

The brother is an attention seeker.


ImQuiteRandy t1_izru4h3 wrote

wow. the Guy is grieving. how about finding one iota of empathy in yourself and attempt at being a decent person.


[deleted] t1_izsz4h8 wrote

Yeah, I don't think claiming foulplay with zero evidence is a part of the grieving process.


monkeydoodle64 t1_iznzk8y wrote

Did anyone check for ricin poisoning


darren1119 t1_izo7pk8 wrote

He was worked to death obviously


Artyturo t1_iznu7th wrote



illaville t1_izmh81i wrote

Crazy, if true


teabagmoustache t1_izmicrn wrote

Everyone is going mad over this but surely nobody in Qatar would be this stupid. The whole World Cup is a marketing ploy. There would be zero point in murdering a journalist. How do they benefit?


iamchristendomdotcom t1_izmj5dm wrote

Reports say he keeled over in his seat with witnesses all around. He noted he felt very sick with chest pressure for the last week. It could be a lot of things, but killing him would highlight his work in humanitarianism, including coverage of migrant worker deaths in Qatar; not a likely move because it wouldn't be a good one.


teabagmoustache t1_izmjwvh wrote

Exactly, people are trying to compare this with Khashoggi, which was carried out without the world's media watching and still blew up in the Saudi's face's.

There are many prominent journalists reporting on exactly the same issues he was, so murdering him would achieve nothing.

His brother is probably distraught and it's awful but people are jumping to conclusions way too fast.

Having said that, if it turns out to be true it's fucking wild.


crowd79 t1_izno9p1 wrote

Should have worn a mask. If you’re sick it’s just appropriate nowadays. May have unknowingly caught Covid that day. Might have saved his life.


V_ict0r t1_izo5r3j wrote

Yeah imagine having covid and then start wearing a mask. Like you will be able to start breathing normally again or like it wil magically take your covid away. You sir make no sense. And what’s appropriate to you is crazy to others.


ArcadianGhost t1_izojeaw wrote

While part of his comment is dumb, I do think if you’re sick and going to continue to work, risking getting others sick, the least you can do is wear a mask to hopefully minimize potential of spread. That being said I have no idea whether the guy did or not because I had never even heard of him till today.