Submitted by PrincessBananas85 t3_103ajcx in sports
Comments
SCirish843 t1_j30uqn5 wrote
As someone who watches every major atleast and enjoys woman’s tennis as much as mens (so atleast for Americans I’m probably in the upper percentiles of womens tennis viewers/womens sports in general) I 100% did forget about her disappearance. If I forgot most people forgot. Kudos to the WTA
MuelDaddyLongLegs t1_j324f7z wrote
I’m someone who watches the WTA very sporadically….but even I couldn’t forget her. Maybe to you her disappearance was like an egg hitting a rock but to me I remember her
SCirish843 t1_j332fs3 wrote
Cool story bro
Trent_Bennett t1_j2zv9mg wrote
Yeah but we are totally forgetting they are leaving since 2 years and a half their most profitable market (10 🏆 with some big ass tourneys) and like billions in endorsements, ads and everything else. It's like ok I'm gonna cut my throat at 65% just to stand for civil rights and just for one single player. They need to be recognized all days in media coverage, all year long in every sport talks, just in this manner china will be slowly called out, and maybe won't change shit but at least u put pressure on'em. Instead nobody gives a shit and we are releasing a dope ass Netflix series to not think about this atrocious situation.
Yes, when u see a fucking video with your wta player alone in an empty stadium, saying "it's all right folks, nobody is haunting me" with a fear look in her face (bc her family is probably under torture or something) and 10 fake ass players all smiling simultaneously.
Yes u know things are real bad. But this is the way china operate.
trou_bucket_list t1_j30hjih wrote
What are you even trying to say?
tiempo90 t1_j31gphw wrote
I will do my best and translate it to English... My translation's in bold.
>Yeah but we are totally forgetting they are leaving since 2 years and a half their most profitable market (10 🏆 with some big ass tourneys) and like billions in endorsements, ads and everything else.
>
>Translation: "We are forgetting that the WTO have already made a shit ton of money in China." (So, essentially, the WTO has gained 'enough' from China and can choose to stay out)
>
>It's like ok I'm gonna cut my throat at 65% just to stand for civil rights and just for one single player.
>
>Translation: ?? Mental gymnastics: "This Chinese tennis lady risked her life to stand up for civil rights in China."
>
>They need to be recognized all days in media coverage, all year long in every sport talks, just in this manner china will be slowly called out, and maybe won't change shit but at least u put pressure on'em.
>
>Translation: "Our media need to cover this situation all year long, in all sports programs, to keep on calling out China and keep this in the limelight. This action probably won't induce them to change, but at least there is pressure for them to change; the world is watching and are not forgetting"
>
>Instead nobody gives a shit and we are releasing a dope ass Netflix series to not think about this atrocious situation.
>
>Translation: Instead, our media (and we) stopped giving a shit about her, and instead were focused on the next Netflix series.
>
>Yes, when u see a fucking video with your wta player alone in an empty stadium, saying "it's all right folks, nobody is haunting me" with a fear look in her face (bc her family is probably under torture or something) and 10 fake ass players all smiling simultaneously. Yes u know things are real bad. But this is the way china operate.
>
>Translation: The situation for her is bad. Her video saying that she is "OK" was clearly coerced, maybe because her family was held hostage / "tortured or something". You could see the fear in her eyes. But this is totally normal in China.
dillybravo t1_j31i1re wrote
I understood differently:
WTA makes most of their money from China. (Not they made tons OK to stay out but the opposite---China was a huge part of their business and they've suffered 2.5 years already without it).
This is like them deciding they're good to make only 65% of what they used to just for this one cause, which is a major thing to do.
We should recognize that sacrifice everywhere all the time. That will pressure China.
Rest the same although I don't know about "we" live in fear, didn't see any indication poster was living in China.
tiempo90 t1_j31kqh2 wrote
> I don't know about "we" live in fear, didn't see any indication poster was living in China.
Yeah I just like 'reading beyond the lines'.... Removed it anyhow, might be disingenuous.
Fingolfiin t1_j310gzn wrote
Yeah that is a stunning paragraph saying nothing, but it still feels like it's making an attempt
Trent_Bennett t1_j31exbu wrote
Wta left tons of money on the table trying to "protect" Shuai.
But anger took over me and i lost my shit throughout it.
At the end of the day it's one of those atrocities that won't be speak about after some weeks
Exactly what happened with Peng "incident"
Agente006 t1_j30ho3l wrote
If that's how china operates then fuck em. FUCK THEM
Gerbennos t1_j30c54b wrote
"hey guys I'm totally not a bot or a China shill"
eldertortoise t1_j3158k0 wrote
You didn't read the comment did you?
tiempo90 t1_j31gye3 wrote
It was hard to understand, seriously... I did a translation (to English), see above
Haldir111 t1_j31hn3u wrote
It was gibberish, but blatantly not pro-China. lol
eldertortoise t1_j31kj4v wrote
Exactly, it was hard to understand but calling him pro China is just weird
menghis_khan08 t1_j31uxf9 wrote
And it’s actually some pretty good gibberish with some solid points, worded absolutely horribly
goliathfasa t1_j30srv6 wrote
????
SCirish843 t1_j30ujc4 wrote
You think China provides BILLIONS in womens tennis endorsements?
YawnDogg t1_j31zb6m wrote
The glory of upvotes
[deleted] t1_j30gwfs wrote
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[deleted] t1_j31jbcr wrote
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aredm02 t1_j2yb4l7 wrote
I hope they don’t backtrack on this under threats or bribes.
mikemil50 t1_j2ycrxj wrote
They're not FIFA so there's hope!
tlst9999 t1_j30c52k wrote
They would allow Messi to disappear in China if they were paid enough.
RobbinDeBank t1_j32g05r wrote
Infantino: today I feel Chinese
kenjose t1_j3102t9 wrote
They are not the Olympic Committee as well
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[deleted] t1_j306ydd wrote
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ArcticFox59 t1_j32jhcy wrote
FIFA will always take the cake.
Especially for this last WC, everything about it.
albeve t1_j2zt5wp wrote
They absolutely will not the WTA is one of the most morally upstanding pro sports organizations there is
rainbowshummingbird t1_j30azjx wrote
It would be great if the ATP would stand with the WTA on this.
albeve t1_j30id2s wrote
They likely will not but I’d love to be proven wrong. They haven’t held any tournaments in China since her disappearance but that’s because of zero-covid
Edit: yeah I just checked all the China tournaments are on schedule for 2023
Trent_Bennett t1_j2zudal wrote
Bc of his incredible president Simon
MadNhater t1_j30usaa wrote
If they cave, we’re doomed
maedha2 t1_j32d32x wrote
4 of their board of director positions are elected by current players, which makes them very different to most top sporting orgs.
MadNhater t1_j30uq9p wrote
I read threats of bribes at first and was like, damn, that’s an effective threat.
“If you don’t come back, we’ll just have to give you more money”
Macro_Tears t1_j2yncqa wrote
It’s insane that the WTA is the only group to stand up to China…
Dudedude88 t1_j2zadli wrote
Tennis isn't popular in china. China doesn't care
cynicalspacecactus t1_j2zfbej wrote
The WTA had made a 10 year deal to hold the WTA Finals in China, after a significant monetary commitment from the Chinese. The WTA gave up on what was a significant income source after the Peng Shuai ordeal.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/17/sports/tennis/wta-finals-china.html
thedevad t1_j2zo64c wrote
respect 🫡
Dudedude88 t1_j341w4c wrote
I am Chinese. The deal was done to promote tennis in china. The goal was growth. Table tennis, badminton, basketball and football, golf are way more popular. Tennis is seen as a sport for the rich youth. It's the same idea as youth lacrosse or hockey in the states but even less popular. Even in the USA it's a upper middle class sport.
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maniacreturns t1_j2zsm9y wrote
Wow these rich brazilionaires turned down even more billions of dollars.
Yes I understand the times we live, that shit still sucks to type out.
arejay00 t1_j313b00 wrote
That’s quite a narrow view of the world. There are like hundreds of normal working folks who work under WTA and also another thousands who are indirectly related financially to the WTA. The WTA is not just a bunch of rich people.
Greener441 t1_j2zzwvh wrote
lol, this is such a dumb comment. someone has to make the money. all i hear is people bitch about billionaires without understanding that someone has to make the money if it's not the government. without billionaires things would be drastically more difficult, because billionaires are the ones who actually drive the economy. no billionaires = things are much more expensive and less jobs.
KingNigglyWiggly t1_j30i9hx wrote
>no billionaires = things are much more expensive and less jobs.
Yeah... the last 50+ years of american politics have proven that you just made that shit up lmao
Greener441 t1_j30nkxk wrote
why so ignorant?
https://reddit.com/r/sports/comments/103ajcx/_/j306xte/?context=1
brosephmayi t1_j3061p7 wrote
So, hoarding wealth creates jobs and makes things cheaper. Interesting, must have missed that day in econ 302 lol
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luffyuk t1_j2zsufo wrote
I'm guessing you don't live in China? Tennis is one of the more popular sports here.
Ingr1d t1_j3186wk wrote
They don’t have the space for tennis courts. Sports like football, basketball, badminton, table tennis are far more popular for these reasons.
4Bpencil t1_j306w0k wrote
Im born and have lived there, and I can tell you it definitely is not "one of the more popular sports".
Before you go saying that it is in the bigger cities, I lived in Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen, Qingdao, Nanjing, and again, it definitely isn't one of the more popular sports.
luffyuk t1_j307w8r wrote
Basketball, badminton, table tennis, football... I'd put tennis after these.
What other sports would you place ahead of tennis?
I play tennis weekly with Chinese colleagues, there are dozens of different clubs for us to choose from, with multiple courts and they're almost all fully booked out in advance.
4Bpencil t1_j30980u wrote
Couple of things, there is a huge lack of suitable tennis court/gym that supports them, combined with the large Chinese population, ofc everything is booked out in advance. Is not that tennis is a popular sport, is a nich sport with even less facilities to support it.
Normal gyms, yoga, swimming, golf etc you can all place before tennis, combined with the fact that there are so many other entertainment options available, makes tennis not even close to a popular sport there. Just because you and some of your niche coworkers go does it make it a popular sport. Basketball alone sucks up close to 70% of the market. Older population can generally careless about tennis and prefers other forms of exercise like taichi etc, and you would be familiar with the dreaded "guang chang Wu" culture, less tennis with a tiny % population to begin with. It only seems large because of the huge population base.
luffyuk t1_j30c74a wrote
Your views seem very old and outdated.
As I already said, there are dozens of tennis clubs available for us to choose from within easy traveling distance. On the other hand, there is one golf course, priced completely out of the range of most. There is no way that more people play golf than tennis in China.
Just this past year, two of these closest tennis clubs have been closed for renovations and now boast 30+ courts available! There are even large warehouses being converted into sporting facilities with basketball and tennis inside. If you lived in China now, you would probably have noticed many tennis courts beginning to be paired with the ever popular basketball and football courts. You'll often see the three activities alongside each other now.
4Bpencil t1_j30dwo3 wrote
...this is ridiculous... Courts renovations of 30+ courts in cities like Beijing and Shanghai is like a drop in the bucket. You can fit the entire population of Canada in either cities. The amount of people that play tennis portionally is very much minimal.
Admittedly last time I spent significant time in China was right before COVID in Shanghai, we had no issues booking courts at all. In contrast all pools and basketball courts are full at all times.
luffyuk t1_j30faoh wrote
Tennis in China is a rapidly growing sport that has received much private and public support, and has today become firmly entrenched in the Chinese as one of the most popular. Tennis is now the third-most popular sport on television in China, behind Association football and basketball.
4Bpencil t1_j30g5l3 wrote
Your Wikipedia page also mentions that it needs additional verification for support, from 2010 no less.
It also mentions a measly 14m people plays the sport with 30,000 courts, in a country with 1.4 billion people and city that can host entire country populations. Many of these courts are spread in rural areas that can barely even be considered courts. Also considering some of the so called courts are just roughly re netted badminton courts, this is a joke.
It also mentions that one of the major tournaments was held in a stadium in Beijing that host a laughable 10k. Sorry but my middle school stadium holds close to that much, and the stadium wasn't even filled for the final. In a city of 30m you cant even fill a 10k stadium, This is your popular sport lmfao. You really want to read your sources before you provided as "proof".
luffyuk t1_j30hspt wrote
The participation numbers for tennis in China has grown so rapidly that the country now boasts more tennis players than any other country in the world
Nearly a quarter of all tennis players in the world are from China. This figure comprises all those players that have played the sport at least once in the past year. That’s according to a new survey just published by the International Tennis Federation (ITF)
https://tennishead.net/new-report-highlights-astounding-popularity-of-tennis-in-china/
http://itf.uberflip.com/i/1169625-itf-global-tennis-report-2019-overview/0?
4Bpencil t1_j30io7r wrote
Number of players total does not prove anything? You are talking about the country which currently boasts the largest population, of course they are going to have a large presence in almost everything they do, welcome to statistics?
Again, if is sooooo popular, how come you can't even fill the WTA final of 10k people, hosted in one of the largest cities in the world by population? Surely you can find 10k people out of the "14m tennis enjoyers" to fill a stadium? Not counting the seats that's already filled by foreign fans?
monodescarado t1_j30vbbj wrote
What a pointless discussion that was I just read
toga287 t1_j2zflmx wrote
I mean, kind of. Li Na was an excellent Chinese player and many fans tuned in just to watch her. I haven’t watched in a while but I doubt there aren’t any solid Chinese players on either tour
leelougirl89 t1_j303ff4 wrote
My guy, the way the WTA is squaring up to China is turning me into a fan.
No other organization, institution, or government has stood up to China this way.
All the executives in charge of WTA's stance?........ I want all their autographs. All of them. And Serena Williams'. And Venus'.
I'm a fan now. Someone teach me the rules of tennis STAT.
Macro_Tears t1_j2zn4dp wrote
Regardless, the WTAs actions shine SOME light on what they do to their own citizens.
cinred t1_j2zhc22 wrote
That weird. Tennis is the #1 sport of Chinese American students. Right behind anything that has anything to do with being 1st chair in any orchestra.
munoodle t1_j2zkfrz wrote
Keep your casual racism away from here
SG_wormsblink t1_j3013ol wrote
Chinese Americans are not Chinese Chinese. They are obviously very different culturally.
Jrdirtbike114 t1_j2zihoy wrote
Have you met every Chinese American? That's a fuckton of travel and meeting people, how do you afford it?
pataconconqueso t1_j2ygj22 wrote
Shit like this is why I’ve been watching WTA matches more. Like finally some bare min integrity
bojanhartlane t1_j2yvxbw wrote
The quality of the matches is also great. I know there's some who made jokes about how the top seeded players are inconsistent, but that's more because the talent level is more evenly spread
pataconconqueso t1_j2z6i8w wrote
I think so too, I used to get the criticism like 10yrs ago but now I’m like, I like it way more than seeing the same 4 players rotate winning tournaments like in the men’s.
dontstealmypenguin t1_j31pc3n wrote
It's because in the women's tour, GS events are only best of 3 sets so it's very hard to win 7 matches in a row without being upset once by a lesser player. In the men's it's Bo5 so the best player in the tournament almost always wins, as upsets are much harder in this format. This is also why women's GS events should be Bo5 like the men's. It would make winning a GS more significant and meaningful and you wouldn't have randoms like raducanu winning them. This would help the women's game so much. And there's no physical issue with it as they have the same levels of relative stamina as men (meaning women would be just as capable lasting x hours Vs other women as men are lasting x hours Vs other men), in fact, in ultra long distance running events of 200 miles+ women are actually FASTER than men!
flamfranky t1_j30dvi4 wrote
>I know there's some who made jokes about how the top seeded players are inconsistent, but that's more because the talent level is more evenly spread
That's great then, because i want the winner to be a surprise
DokkanProductions t1_j2yjcu8 wrote
The NBA could never
Leadantagonist t1_j2z5224 wrote
Probably would need an NBA player to go missing just like what spurred the WTA into action? Not like they aren’t doing this because they themselves are directly affected vs faceless captives.
Trent_Bennett t1_j2zvv85 wrote
WTA Is one of the smallest sport association between the sisters. And china is their biggest market by miles far above everything else (10 tournaments per year before dropping).
What they are doing is not only remarkable, but it's like David vs Goliath. They know they got no chance and still putting up a fight. Mad mad respect for them.
We occidental medias should cover this shit more often, instead nobody gives a fuck about that anymore. And it's super sad. Shuai's family is probably kidnapped since things went down with that son of a bitch chinese senator. Sorry but I can't stand this shit no more
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somasomore t1_j2zmx15 wrote
If this happened to a WNBA player they might. The pressure to stand up would be huge.
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Lucky_strike17 t1_j2zdn4d wrote
I feel bad for forgetting about this
VAisforLizards t1_j300clr wrote
Shit, at least I'm not the only one. I can't believe I forgot about this even with all the other bullshit that has happened in the world since.
blitzbotted t1_j328h7f wrote
Don't feel bad, she's not missing
TheBigCore t1_j2z3f2n wrote
Good luck ever getting the CCP to admit anything….
DetroitJim t1_j3029d0 wrote
Women's tennis takes a harder stand on something than the NBA does with anything related to China. Wow. Good on them.
zombocom66 t1_j2yk8d0 wrote
How about they just never go back ? Easy solution
If they don't, nothing of value was lost
bakerzdosen t1_j2zg6s2 wrote
I feel like this is just another “China gonna China” thing.
They’ll wait for it to blow over and then pretend it never happened. Even if it takes a decade.
ordinaryprudentman t1_j30h2mk wrote
a decade is probably strong enough of a message for everyone before they do anything to a WTA player
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plugifyable t1_j2zceqp wrote
The article doesn’t rlly explain well wut is going on. Anyone got a TLDR?
Lurker_81 t1_j2zdrk9 wrote
plugifyable t1_j2zh1m3 wrote
Thank u
nfrnfrtt t1_j2zmpn7 wrote
Is it more insane than the disappearance of Katie Johnson?
plugifyable t1_j2znlmo wrote
Tried looking that up all I’m finding is some NASA person who died at 101
altcodeinterrobang t1_j2zp5xl wrote
Lmao that's gotta be Katherine Johnson, who is famous enough for kids to do reports on. She's one of the smartest pre computer era mathematicians at NASA.
No clue who the prior OP was thinking about.
majorpail18 t1_j2zx3nk wrote
Man what read it again
plugifyable t1_j30ajil wrote
Sorry not what is going on, what happened
993targa t1_j308lyr wrote
Screw all these sports associations (fifa, Olympics) who bring $$ and prestige to the likes of China, Russia, North Korea, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and all the other asshole nations. Assholes get rich while the people suffer :(
AdonisPanda27 t1_j30el0y wrote
Immense respect to the WTA, breaking ground since 1970’s and stay safe peng , I hope you’re ok 😭😭🙏
Trailblazertravels t1_j2ztxd0 wrote
Glad someone stood up to them.
GLFan52 t1_j30oub9 wrote
I should find a way to watch WTA tennis, this is the sort of thing I’d like to support with my viewership
lemonpigger t1_j2z6f1d wrote
Love it
wayne63 t1_j30c987 wrote
Dog bless them every one.
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JK_Chan t1_j30z7l4 wrote
W move unlike most other pro sports leagues.
426763 t1_j31hrkj wrote
China: We're starting our own tennis association, but with blackjack and hookers.
CLOCKSLAYER725 t1_j31urqm wrote
It is nice to see them stand firm on this and not give in for the money
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SportsPi t1_j2z2r2m wrote
Welcome to /r/sports
We created a Discord server for our community and would like to invite all of you to join! You'll be able to discuss sports with users around the world and discuss events in real time!
There are separate channels for many sports you can opt in and out of, including;
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govenorhouse t1_j34y9u0 wrote
So insidious
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CrackHeadRodeo t1_j2zxy87 wrote
This plus covid makes this a pretty good decision.
feeltheslipstream t1_j2zw8oj wrote
>The WTA said it had received confirmation Peng was safe and comfortable but were yet to meet with her personally.
Unless their definition of "confirmation" is different from what I was taught, shouldn't this already be resolution.
RegalCopper t1_j2zwqnw wrote
It means that they have not met her personally to confirm she isn't saying these things at the end of a gun.
Why'd you think they refuse to let her meet? The last time someone tried to show they weren't torturing prisoners on TV, the prisoner has to spell out torture in morse code with his eye. 🤔
feeltheslipstream t1_j2zx7v2 wrote
That still falls under the definition of confirmed in regards to "safe and comfortable".
So they've confirmed that she is safe and comfortable, but aren't convinced she is safe and comfortable? There's a conflict here.
kvist56 t1_j301stx wrote
They want a resolution to the case that was the start of this. Her being safe and comfortable is nice and all (her saying I am safe and comfortable in a moderately controlled interview does not count), but she is clearly under duress to not speak of the incident. That’s what they want from this. They want her to be able to speak candidly and without punishment. Given that it’s China, it’s unlikely that will happen while she is in China, but who knows, China did make a sizable investment in WTA before this went down.
rainbowshummingbird t1_j30kah4 wrote
I am no China expert, but my gut is that she is being re-educated along with her family members. It is unlikely that she will ever be allowed to travel outside of China.
JK_Chan t1_j30zj5k wrote
They haven't confirmed that, they were just told that she was. I can tell you Im XiJinping but unless I prove it it's not confirmed that Im the man himself.
feeltheslipstream t1_j310g0v wrote
I'm literally quoting from the article when I state that they confirmed it.
So what you're doing now is accusing wta of lying.
JK_Chan t1_j31139j wrote
Article says WTA received confirmation, not that they confirmed it. I can send you confirmation that I am XiJinping, it's up to you to confirm it.
feeltheslipstream t1_j312iyp wrote
No you can't.
You can send me a claim that you're xi Jinping. To send me confirmation would require you're in a position to send me proof. Which you're not.
This is really basic stuff.
JK_Chan t1_j312w6y wrote
Well what are the requirements for me to be in a position to send you proof?
feeltheslipstream t1_j313ixd wrote
Well the lowest hurdle you would have to clear would be to provide some official documentation.
Think : what documentation a bank needs as confirmation that you're you when you are opening an account.
JK_Chan t1_j314zvt wrote
Are you sure the WTA has received that information from her then?
feeltheslipstream t1_j315duu wrote
No I'm not.
Read my post again. My point is that wta seems to simultaneously claim that they received confirmation and that its not enough to be a resolution of the issue.
These two things shouldn't be simultaneously possible. So if they're not lying about confirmation, they're pushing the issue in spite of proof otherwise. If they didn't get confirmation, they lied about getting it.
Confirmation means they received proof. So did they or not? Are they lying or acting in bad faith?
JK_Chan t1_j319btl wrote
The bank can send you confirmation that your money is with them. If a theif then proceeds to steal your money, you still have the confirmation, it doesn't mean that the bank still has your money. In this case you have received confirmation, but you can still doubt that the bank has your money after you read about a heist on the news.
feeltheslipstream t1_j31jbou wrote
You're adding a time component to the question, making it philosophical : all confirmations occur in the past.
If we were to use this on everything, we would conclude we are sure of nothing. Last time someone checked in on you, you were an outstanding member of society and law abiding citizen.
But who is to say you haven't fucked a goat this morning? We can't be sure!
I hope you see why that reasoning is pretty bad.
JK_Chan t1_j34rkeb wrote
Well no one from WTA has been able to meet her up to this day, and all they have is the confirmation. Same as in my analogy, if you then asked your bank whether your money is safe, and they send you another confirmation, but you are unable to withraw your money or to see it at all, would you still be convinced that the bank has your money? The confirmation from the bank can be offered at anytime irregardless of when the hypothetical theft occured, so the time component isn't really required.
feeltheslipstream t1_j35jgo9 wrote
If they met up with her and she's OK you can still use this logic to say "who's to say they didn't grab her after she met us?"
That's why this is a terrible logic to use.
JK_Chan t1_j35m1mw wrote
Well as I said, they weren't even able to meet up with her. If she didn't disappear in the first place I wouldn't doubt that she's fine, but she has and no one from WTA has been able to meet up with her until now. Using my example, if I didn't hear about a theft on the news, and was unable to withdraw my money, sure I would still trust the bank on their guarantee. But now that I know money has been stolen and that I am unable to get my money, I need to see my money physically to trust that the bank still has it.
feeltheslipstream t1_j35njmg wrote
But the bank has just given you a video call to confirm money is still in the bank. And you're still saying its not enough because it might have been stolen after the call. I assure you that if this scenario ever occurs, your bank will NOT be arranging a private visit of their vault for you.
Wta has been able to talk to her over video call. That's what they mean by confirmation.
You are talking about a woman who has outed herself as a mistress in a Conservative society, and expect her to make herself available to be in the spotlight. That's ridiculous. This isn't even unprecedented. People with far bigger star power have disappeared from the public eye overnight because they've been exposed of being part of an affair.
JK_Chan t1_j361b9t wrote
No, the bank has given me a video call to show me my supposed money. I however, am still unable to access it. I fully understand that in my case the bank cannot and will not arrange a private visit to the vault for me, and therefore, I can still be skeptical that the confirmation is legitimate.
As for WTA's case, there have been cases where prisoners were able to video call the outside world, and in one case, they verbally communicated that they were not being tortured, but using morse code in their blinks, told the world that they were in fact, tortured. This acts as an example to show that video evidence alone is not enough to ensure the safety of anyone or anything.
True, it may be that she is ashamed of her actions, and therefore has disappeared from the public eye. On the other hand, China is also known to have people appearing in their courts claiming that they commited atrocious crimes, yet in multiple cases, those people have disappeared from other countries, with no immigration record of them leaving the country at all. Why would one leave a country illegally just to go to China and turn themselves in? It's more likely that they were kidnapped and brought into the courts with a false crime attributed to them, so their disapperances could be easily explained.
To clarify, I have no clue what happened. I'm just saying WTA has enough information in front of them to be skeptical of the confirmation.
feeltheslipstream t1_j362fcq wrote
They literally have zero information in front of them to be skeptical.
They're skeptical based on suspicions. All information actually points to this being nothing.
You're confusing suspicion and evidence.
But this isn't the point I was trying to make from the start. My point is that the statement from WTA is self contradictory. If your only rebuttal is going to be splitting hairs on the semantics of confirmation, I have to point out it's a very weak one.
No evidence will ever pass the bar you've set. Peng Shuai could fly to your house and stay with you for a year, and your argument would still hold : who's to know she didn't get captured the moment she left your house?
If nothing can satisfy the bar, the bar is set wrongly.
JK_Chan t1_j365ena wrote
No, my bar is that if they can meet Peng Shuai without the monitoring of Chinese authorities, they can resonably believe that she is safe. I have given you examples of video confirmation of safety being unrealiable, and examples of instances that are more likely to be Chinese abductions than not. Both are reasons to be suspicious. Since all attempts for them to meet her have been unsuccessful, there are reasons to remain doubtful of the confirmation video.
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Edit: as before, I am not tyring to comment on the case, but rather I'm trying to show that the presentation of confirmation to a party does not mean that they have to believe it. Therefore, there is no contradiction in the article. If the WTA produced such confirmation, what you are saying makes sense, but they were just shown confirmation produced by a third party.
feeltheslipstream t1_j365v0z wrote
>No, my bar is that if they can meet Peng Shuai without the monitoring of Chinese authorities
It isn't.
Because you've already clarified that stuff can happen after the meeting. And that's enough for it to fail your bar again.
After the meeting, you'll give me more examples of people who got arrested after public appearances. And use that to tell me it fails your bar.
Come on. You know its true.
If the meeting is in China, you'll say she's still within ccp influence. So you insist she flies out to meet you. There, you'll say ccp has a history of grabbing people from other countries. Or maybe you'll claim she has family in China.
Nothing she does will pass your bar. Let's reverse roles for fun. Let me have a turn being the troll. You come up with what you think is a bullet proof scenario and I either prove she's now your prisoner, or give you a reason why she still fails to meet the bar set.
JK_Chan t1_j366hh4 wrote
Yes I've clarified that stuff can happen after the meeting, but I could care less about that. That has nothing to do with my bar. My bar (and the WTA's bar) is for them to meet, which for one reason or another, is not possible. (Also people who got arrested after public appearances has nothing to do with this, all I listed were people who dissappeared and then reappeared in China without the required legal documents to pass through immigration. Such cases has no correlation to my bar, but were rather used to show you that they have resonable reason to suspect that there is foul play.)
All of my points here are just to tell you that the presentation of confirmation does not mean that you have to believe such confirmation. There is no contradiction by WTA. I am not commenting on the case since I have no clue what actually happened.
feeltheslipstream t1_j366ngf wrote
Your argument is based on the poorly defined idea that a confirmation isn't a confirmation. Which leaves me scratching my head.
There's a difference between saying "I've received some information" and "I've received confirmation. You're saying they are the same thing. Which they are not.
If you say you received confirmation, it means you believe it confirms the information you got.
JK_Chan t1_j367tni wrote
Yet again, a bank can send you confirmation that your money is with them, but if you can't access the money and you heard that a theft has occured, you could reasonably doubt that the given confirmation is correct.
feeltheslipstream t1_j3689p1 wrote
>but if you can't access the money
video call. She's available to talk to you(well, not you...but people more important than you)
>you heard that a theft has occured
You've heard nothing to indicate she's been detained. All you have are "they could if they wanted to"
JK_Chan t1_j3694i9 wrote
Yes I heard nothing to indicate that she's been detained. However, she has disappeared for a period of time and the WTA isn't able to meet her. Sure the WTA ain't a big organization, but it's big enough that meeting her shouldn't be a problem, so when they have a problem with arranging a meeting right after her brief dissappearance, there's enough to indicate there might be something going on behing the scenes. I mean yes they got a video call but it was a controlled one, and as I raised before, videos are often unreliable as confirmations.
feeltheslipstream t1_j369wsv wrote
There's also been private meetings, not just video calls. And just not with the WTA. WTA also didn't get even a video call. The IOC has been the ones in contact, along with a couple of interviews for the media (some non Chinese).
Video calls are just the only ones we, the public, get to witness.
I think a lot of context is lost when people read the truncated/translated version of the post that started this. Reading it in Chinese, it is 90% a love letter and 10% details of the man using his power to get the girl.
The post has bad timing to be caught in the middle of the me too movement, but sexual assault/abuse is not really the point of the post.
There's no reason for anyone (or the ccp) to think it was intended as an accusation of crime. Why would there be a need to silence her?
JK_Chan t1_j36cint wrote
Oh the IOC is corruption at it's finiest, just like FIFA and the NBA. If the confirmation came from them then yea I wouldn't trust them either. Im not here to argue about or comment on about what happened though, I don't know enough. Im just here to say that the WTA did not contradict themselves.
As you said, the WTA did not even get a video call from her let alone a meeting, I can definitely see how they can be suspicious of the confirmation they were sent.
As to why the ccp might want to silence her, the ccp tried to silence the news of COVID within China for quite a while before the global outbreak. I don't see why they would want to do that instead of getting global help to contain the virus, but yet here we are.
PS: if you don't mind, could you send me some of the sources? I understand Chinese so Chinese sources would be fine too. I'm kinda busy but would like to look a bit more into this maybe during the weekend.
feeltheslipstream t1_j372mea wrote
Well it's been a year and even back then it was really only available on Taiwan sites. I would advice you search for it in Chinese.
>It’s always good to see Peng Shuai, whether in an interview or attending the Olympic Games. However, her recent in-person interview does not alleviate any of our concerns about her initial post from 2 November.
See, people have met in person. But I bet that's not going to be enough anymore right?
>As to why the ccp might want to silence her, the ccp tried to silence the news of COVID within China for quite a while before the global outbreak. I don't see why they would want to do that instead of getting global help to contain the virus, but yet here we are.
We really going to do this?
The provincial government covered this from the federal level government for a week. Once this was discovered, the ccp immediately informed the WHO. It wasn't like the covered it up and got found out.
JK_Chan t1_j3k44g9 wrote
I mean that's good enough for me but if it isn't for WTA, then it isn't. And yes, we're really gonna do this. Even if they weren't trying to cover it up, the news reached the media before the WHO was informed by the ccp, and the WHO requested the information from the ccp (due to a statement from the provicial government(?)) rather than it being the ccp informing them immediately after realizing a cover up. Independent inquiries on the origin of COVID 19 have been actively blocked by the Chinese government and they have also tried to shift the blame to Italy for the virus' origin. Not really what I was here for (I was just gonna say that receiving confirmation from a third party doesnt mean you have to believe in such confirmation), but hey if you wanna I guess.
Osmium_tetraoxide t1_j30vr1i wrote
They've decided on a political take and that will be that. Even when they meet her they'll magic some rubbish about, well she was brainwashed in some camp so we can't take her testimony as made in good faith, we need more proof.
Thumper86 t1_j30j7j5 wrote
So this is how things work when international sporting federations are run by women!
ghostdeinithegreat t1_j30lgg6 wrote
WTA is run by Steve Simon
Thumper86 t1_j30lvnx wrote
Hah. I kinda just took a shot in the dark. Ah well, good for him!
toga287 t1_j2y4b81 wrote
I respect the WTA for this. It would be easy to assume the public forgot about Shuai’s disappearance a year ago, especially considering how much money China represents.
But the fact that the WTA still hasn’t personally met Shuai is incredibly concerning. I don’t know how you could read that and not think foul play is involved