Comments
MikeyLikey41 t1_j66u45m wrote
Care to post any links for us oblivious folk ?
idontreadfineprint t1_j67arqn wrote
>To understand the racist incident involving CBS Sports analyst Billy Packer on Saturday night, don't stop at Packer's reference to Georgetown guard Allen Iverson, who is black, as "a tough monkey." That was bad enough, but virtually everything that happened after the nationally televised slur revealed the chronic nature of the disease.
>Listen to Packer -- who at first seemingly apologized for the remark -- as he subsequently explains why he shouldn't have to apologize:
>"I don't know why people are sensitive about something that to me, in my way of thinking, has absolutely nothing to do with race," Packer said
cor_dam t1_j67eqmr wrote
Is that it?
pargofan t1_j687kkc wrote
As an announcer though, I'm surprised he survived that comment in the 90s.
But whether it was racist? Howard Cosell probably wasn't racist and he was using "little monkey" in the 80s for small, fast wide receivers in football. When he used it for black players, it got him forced out.
https://historydaily.org/howard-cosell-little-monkey-controversy
idontreadfineprint t1_j67imf3 wrote
SamURLJackson t1_j67tzal wrote
If you're the one calling someone racist then I think it should be you providing the proof
idontreadfineprint t1_j68r1rt wrote
>If you're the one calling someone racist
I'm not
vaelstresz77 t1_j682ady wrote
Calling a black man a monkey is my proof.
SamURLJackson t1_j69zfqr wrote
He didn't call him a monkey. He used a phrase that was popular at the time and then you used your Racism Detector decoder ring 40 years later and got upset about it.
There's enough problems in the world without inventing more
vaelstresz77 t1_j6ahswr wrote
A popular racist phrase that was used at the time 40 years ago, and is no longer accepted because the majority of the country has decided that it is no longer acceptable to compare black men to monkeys period...
It was racist at the time, it's still racist today. Because you believe it's popularity and frequent use some how makes it not racist, I'm going to say you have some unresolved racism yourself.
SamURLJackson t1_j6alb9p wrote
If the player was white then it'd be ok, though, right?
My point is that it was a phrase people used. It wasn't used on black people exclusively. Examples have been given in this thread of the phrase being used during that era, regardless of race. You've skipped over this and saw "black people" and "monkey" used, and you linked those together. You can argue that you're the one being racist, but I'm not going there.
I'm bowing out of this thread. This is a mess
vaelstresz77 t1_j6alzv6 wrote
Yeah that's kinda how racism works...
vaelstresz77 t1_j67nkfm wrote
"has nothing to do with race".
He is literally saying he does not believe Iverson is human, he believes he is an animal.
What else do YOU need in YOUR mind's eye?
saysthingsbackwards t1_j67q4zs wrote
I'm sorry, you're moving way too quick here. Can you actually spell it out for us, but with more capitalized accentuated words so I know which ones you're simulating jamming your finger into my chest?
vaelstresz77 t1_j67qupb wrote
The fact you consider capitalization to be "jamming my fingers into your chest" is weird.
What was too fast for you?
saysthingsbackwards t1_j67racz wrote
All of it. Can you start over please?
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saysthingsbackwards t1_j6al9kx wrote
I really hope you don't think I was going to read that.
TooRedditFamous t1_j67s5de wrote
That's clearly not what is being said. Sure its racist to refer to a black guy as a monkey but saying "has nothing to do with race" is not a sign that he literally sees him as an animal you dummy. He's literally just making an excuse saying "it's not a race thing".
The implication is clearly not that he wants to finish the sentence "it's not a race thing because he's an animal" it's, "it's not a race thing because I'm not racist" it was just a poor attempt to cover his back
NotBullievinAnyUvIt t1_j6807yn wrote
I actually read it as he sees us all as monkeys. Like the whole evolved from apes deal. But maybe I am giving him to much credit.
[deleted] t1_j67t2ke wrote
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SirSucculENT t1_j67taxu wrote
You're the worst
[deleted] t1_j67texj wrote
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vaelstresz77 t1_j67thku wrote
Care to explain? Or you just spew insults for no reason.
[deleted] t1_j67uw3d wrote
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vaelstresz77 t1_j67v78b wrote
I wish I didn't delete my other comment to you.
For reference, it said "you're a racist". You have proved my point by literally disregarding thousands of years of racism that was solely focused on the oppressed not being human beings.
Jesus Christ Almighty, you must have been "educated" in the south.
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vaelstresz77 t1_j67v0w7 wrote
You are fooling yourself to think racists don't believe they are animals. Why compare a person to an animal otherwise?
vaelstresz77 t1_j67w3jl wrote
Tell me, since you are so well versed on the subject of racism. What is the "all encompassing definition" of racism.
Please. Tell me how racists view the people their racism is directed at.
cor_dam t1_j68sghs wrote
Dude it’s called a metaphor. He is not literally saying the player is a monkey. Sometimes people call someone a monkey as a slur. Sometimes they do it to make a comparison that describes how athletic someone is.
vaelstresz77 t1_j68v3a8 wrote
You're right, it's a metaphor for not being human....you know being an animal.
cor_dam t1_j68w36o wrote
Which is not racist. In this context, it’s a compliment because monkeys are superior to humans in the traits that he’s comparing. Michael Phelps is sometimes called the “flying fish” because he, like fish, is a good swimmer.
vaelstresz77 t1_j696w9i wrote
You are so detached from reality saying it was a compliment.
Phelps being called a fish isn't even comparable you psycho.
cor_dam t1_j69jnnj wrote
Resorting to gaslighting/insults and no argument, can’t say I’m surprised. I think it’s pretty clear from the responses you’ve received who is detached from reality.
vaelstresz77 t1_j69kyti wrote
Says the person that believes calling a black man playing sports a monkey is not racist.
Go read this to any black person and ask them what they think.
cor_dam t1_j69nneu wrote
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/1996/mar/03/billy-packer-apologizes-for-remark/
Iverson and his (black) coach both said they were not offended and do not consider him racist.
SamURLJackson t1_j67tkln wrote
That's a turn of phrase that's outdated so people don't know it anymore but it was definitely a thing people said and it wasn't racial. I don't know Packer's thoughts or anything, of course, but if that's your smoking gun then it's not much
_Retaliate_ t1_j684p1i wrote
I was able to find the phrase being used innocently in Seinfeld, which lends some credence to the possibility of Packer not meaning it in that way.
That being said, I think regardless of Packer's thoughts when saying it, he should've realized how bad it sounded and he shouldn't have tried to brush it off as people being too sensitive.
There's just too much history of racists referring to black people as "monkeys" to use that phrase when there are so many other phrases that bring the same meaning across. He could've easily referred to Iverson as a "tough cookie" and it would've had the same meaning without the racial overlap.
pargofan t1_j687plh wrote
Howard Cosell on Monday Night Football used the expression "little monkey" to describe small, fast wide receivers in the 70s and 80s - whether white or black.
But he got in trouble in the mid 80s over the expression.
https://historydaily.org/howard-cosell-little-monkey-controversy
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SamURLJackson t1_j6a28gs wrote
Monkey was thrown around a lot in that era to mean a person generally. Pixies had a song in this era called Monkey Gone to Heaven, for example.
This is why it's not doing anyone any good to use 2023 glasses on language from yesteryear in most cases. We lost the context long ago. I only know this from being an 80s kid and remembering how we used to speak. It's interesting how language has evolved, and I think it should be left at that, personally, as a mixed race person myself.
I don't care much about Billy Packer and don't know the guy personally, obviously, but I also think a racist wouldn't choose a career like his, one where he must interact with many black people daily, if he really were such a thing. I just think if this phrase is all we have for proof then the bar should be higher
vaelstresz77 t1_j682d6f wrote
A turn of phrase that wasn't racial. Explain to me the dynamics of how referring to a black man as a monkey is not racist.
dj9008 t1_j69h0yk wrote
Wow . That’s it ? Lmao
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M635_Guy t1_j696igx wrote
What the hell?? Can't believe he was ever allowed back...
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Crunkjudas t1_j66w686 wrote
HeStoleMyBalloons OP t1_j66y340 wrote
> ``One thing I do know about Billy ... is that he is not a racist,″ Thompson said.
Pobert-Raulson t1_j6747qp wrote
His response seemed reasonable, ‘tough monkey’ isn’t an uncommon description either. Got anything else for those of us who don’t know, or is that it?
Crunkjudas t1_j679y9h wrote
Pobert-Raulson t1_j67c7w6 wrote
Hmm okay he made a sexist comment 20 years ago. Let’s cancel him, erase him from history and claim he’s ‘definitely a racist’.
ChampedPogs t1_j67nof3 wrote
Did you even read? There's more than one thing he said just in that list.
orangutanoz t1_j66xg8c wrote
That’s some Jimmy The Greek and Howard Cosell type shit, and it pretty much ruined them.
knowtoriusMAC t1_j670bik wrote
>Basketball commentator Billy Packer says he meant no racial overtones in his use of the term ``tough monkey″ to describe Allen Iverson.
In today’s editions of The Washington Post, Packer said he ``was not apologizing for what I said, because what I said has no implications in my mind whatsoever to do with Allen Iverson’s race.″
​
Good riddance
juice06870 t1_j67qw3w wrote
Well back in the 90s, cancel culture was not a thing. People were allowed a chance to own up to their mistakes and try to do better.
onduty t1_j67t1bp wrote
This guy had a history, and even after being called out, seemed to continue to misstep, so I don’t really think your comment applies too much, especially for a person working in a field with a disproportionately large black representation. He’s the voice of the games, it’s zero tolerance.
With that said, in other contexts your statement is true. Can you imagine living in such a utopia? Acknowledging that other people are humans too, and like you, they have imperfections, and are capable of learning, growing, and changing?
Instead, the internet will hold a seventh grader’s mean tweets against them for the next forty years. Scary time to grow up, a shift away from the concept of personal responsibility, towards a lifetime of pure absolute accountability.
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silveycorp t1_j695enb wrote
Because you’re too stupid to realize a phrases meaning may not be racist, we have to get two posts from you? Idiot
Crunkjudas t1_j69cts4 wrote
Yes, I’m such an idiot for not blindly honoring someone because they died. Gotta love the internet
silveycorp t1_j69im3o wrote
No you’re an idiot for blindly attacking a dead man and having no idea where the saying originated or what it meant. Gotta love the internet.
Crunkjudas t1_j69w9ny wrote
Going to guess you think Reagan was cool too
sonofgildorluthien t1_j67ojrs wrote
Billy Packer's worst offense was ever being allowed to call UNC games. That's where his true hatred showed through.
But he was great on Sunday afternoons calling matches for the PPGA. It's the only time I ever found myself enjoying watching other people play miniature golf.
RestrictedAccount t1_j685otr wrote
He shat on ALL Big 10 schools.
We would turn off the sound when “Fudge” was calling the game.
pargofan t1_j687shu wrote
what did he have against UNC?
sonofgildorluthien t1_j68qohw wrote
He was a Wake Forest alumni. It was an ACC thing, most likely maybe even more a NC thing. It was always a joke that if he was calling a UNC game we would just mute the TV and turn the Woody Durham radio broadcast on. He always just seemed more brutal towards them than anyone else in his analysis.
M635_Guy t1_j696afq wrote
I did exactly that many, many times - hated listening to Packer. Often had a lot of BS commentary about officiating too - often entirely off-base.
Sympathy for his family, but...
Lieutenant_Joe t1_j69escf wrote
FINISH THE BUT, COWARD
M635_Guy t1_j69f2nq wrote
Bless your heart...
spinblackcircles t1_j69clvj wrote
Lol he hated Kentucky even more and we hated him back
He didn’t like other ACC teams that owned his demon deacons but he REALLY didn’t like non ACC power teams
eugoogilizer t1_j67lqfl wrote
Wonder if he had any relatives named Todd
scarlet_speedster985 t1_j69e15j wrote
Sure it's sad he passed away, but he was kind of an a-hole.
twoton1 t1_j69198p wrote
"A very heady play there!" random white player. "What athleticism!" random black player.....over and over for fucking decades. lol
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slayedagain t1_j699qe4 wrote
Billy Packer and Al McGuire were a great team commenting during the tournament. Plenty of energy and they took broadcasting to a new level during the games.
velvetskilett t1_j67imzk wrote
The correct name was Meatballhead Billy Packer.
Skrockout t1_j66ko7f wrote
Meh, a racist cornball.
Crunkjudas t1_j66tf6q wrote
Making a separate comment because the first one got downvoted into oblivion. Definitely a racist and should have become irrelevant in 1993 when that came to light.