Roads - AITA?

Submitted by Kilo417 t3_10qg7w2 in springfieldMO

Rant coming….

Previously I have said how much our city leadership has failed residents when it compares to snow removal on our roads; MODot, Greene County Highway Department and the city public works.

First, I am not upset at Common Joe snow remover for he/she is working under the leadership of the city department boss. Thank you for your hard work during these winter times.

First growing up, schools were rarely cancelled due to snow fall especially for consecutive days unless extreme conditions. Educators in my district checked the road conditions that morning between before cancelling class and not 5pm the night before.

We have heard through local media outlets the demand for child care facilities due to lack of infrastructure. Costs and working class families. Since school is cancelled again, I have to take another day off of work this week. Not in an industry that can work remotely.

So AITA, wanting more services from the city or by asking SPS to have a delayed start to allow working parents child care options. Or finally showing a good example for the kids about working class families and how things shouldn’t shut down because of snow. Please someone provide and explanation why there is a giant difference in plowing

Please tell me I am not the only one thinking this way.

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slumdogPennyPincher t1_j6pyqqg wrote

The purpose of cancelling class the night before, especially knowing that it’s ice, is to allow parents time to make plans.

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Reasonable_Garage318 t1_j6pzqe7 wrote

Exactly, and back growing up we had to wait and watch the morning news to find out if they canceled or not lol

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ash-hole189 t1_j6q01y8 wrote

Touché! Plus it’s way more fun for the kids if they KNOW it’s a snow day eve!

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Kilo417 OP t1_j6q0f8j wrote

Yes that was awesome knowing you could stay up late and binge VHS (DVD) movies.

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ash-hole189 t1_j6q0opi wrote

The very best. But I was lucky enough to have a stay-at-home mom… so childcare wasn’t an issue.

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mangogetter t1_j6pyi1h wrote

Can't plow ice.

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BrilliantFunny3943 t1_j6pyq8f wrote

Salt?

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mangogetter t1_j6pyyiy wrote

Salt is expensive and not super effective on sheet ice.

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WendyArmbuster t1_j6q7xwq wrote

It's not just expensive to buy and spread, but also on the damage it does to our cars. I would ban salt use in Springfield if I could.

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mangogetter t1_j6qdxal wrote

It's not great for the plants and waterways either.

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AmcillaSB t1_j6q8v8e wrote

I tried salting the patio yesterday so my old and sick dog can get in and out easier, and the salt has done jack shit on the ice (especially with it being so cold.)

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EcoAffinity t1_j6pzyw5 wrote

Standard ice melt only works down to the upper 20s. MODOT and the city can add additional chemicals if temps will be below that range, but it makes it a lot more expensive.

Ongoing weather the last two days hasn't helped either. You can melt the ice, but if it's just going to melt, get colder, and sleet again, there's no use. Need sun to help melt everything away.

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whattheduce86 t1_j6q19kf wrote

Funny how people live in Missouri where we get ice but don’t know that every year MoDOT says salt doesn’t work on ice and actually makes things worse bc it will melt during the day and refreeze overnight.

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Kilo417 OP t1_j6q9530 wrote

I44 and Hwy 13 not clear?

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Mean_Addition_6136 t1_j6qiq7t wrote

Salt only works if you can pretreat the roads, but when it’s raining and it changes to freezing rain the salt just gets washed away. I do remember cinders being used when I was a kid, didn’t melt the ice but gave traction. But cinders are probably terrible for the environment

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Mean_Addition_6136 t1_j6qizc7 wrote

Oh shit, just read about cinders… it’s coal ash which contains a devil’s cocktail of heavy metals and carcinogens

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FrankenRabies t1_j6q0xm7 wrote

Showing a good example for the kids about working class families? What good example? Risk your life for a job/school? This isn’t snow, it’s ice. You can’t just plow ice.

I get that it’s inconvenient. I’m losing my mind with my kid at home while I’m also trying to work. I can’t believe I’m about to say this, but I’d rather be in the office so I could actually unwind on my breaks rather than having her right in my ear every time I get up to try to go to the freaking bathroom. But it’s also incredibly unsafe for a whole bunch of people to be driving in this and dangerous for kids like mine who ride their bike or walk to school with cars sliding on these back streets. I understand it’s even worse for those who can’t work from home, but I think a good lesson to teach your kid is that sometimes weather happens and we have to adjust to it and shouldn’t always be on the roads.

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cookieplans t1_j6r6fle wrote

Yup. Watching all the other college campuses evaluate dangerous conditions correctly while MSU did not and had kids getting hurt was a prime example that safety should be everyone’s first priority, no matter how annoying.

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EcoAffinity t1_j6pvlbg wrote

Snow's not the issue, it's the ice sheets. It's been sleeting for 2 days.

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thrwy4286 t1_j6pz1cg wrote

That wasn't the case last week though when it snowed and schools called off before the first snowflake even fell. I think OP's point stands, but I think it's more on the schools than those plowing the roads. Schools are very quick to call off now, even at the rumor of snow. I think it's more because they're at the risk of someone getting hurt on the way to school and blaming them. Schools are scared to be criticized, or maybe even sued.

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EcoAffinity t1_j6q0ac2 wrote

Why shouldn't schools prioritize safety in adverse conditions? OP talks about keeping school and work going to make a good example for the kids. That's BS. Schools and work should prioritize people's safety. We literally just spent years refocusing as a society for this.

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thrwy4286 t1_j6q0j7o wrote

I'm not saying they shouldn't, just that they should get the criticism when they call it off and the next morning the roads are clear vs blaming the road crews when they can't clear them fast enough.

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Kilo417 OP t1_j6pznbj wrote

I understand the ice, but what about the slush snow/ice mixture can’t be removed….

I get the ice debate but I don’t think it’s been applicable here.

And yes two years ago when it was freezing rain and it was sheets of ice. But it was frozen when it landed. So shoving my driveway was far easier this go around.

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AmcillaSB t1_j6q989e wrote

It's 100% applicable. Have you even been outside in the past 24 hours? You can slip and fall on the fucking grass right now because it's so icy.

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Reasonable_Garage318 t1_j6pypdh wrote

There's always going to be something to complain about in these situations.

Run the busses and one gets into an accident? "They should have never ran the busses and called off"

Have class but not run busses? "I don't have the means to drive my kids to school for X,Y,Z reason"

Cancel school? "I can't miss more work due to lack of childcare"

I'm not saying you're wrong in how you're feeling/experiencing the situation, But is there any "winning" in these scenarios?

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whattheduce86 t1_j6q6yzy wrote

I am curious what job doesn’t give you time off.

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Kilo417 OP t1_j6q92if wrote

How about multiple employers that only give two weeks off.

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whattheduce86 t1_j6q97v6 wrote

I’m confused, Is that not enough?

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Kilo417 OP t1_j6q9u32 wrote

4-6 days for snow this year, 1-3 sick days for children and then try to plan other contingencies. Yes it makes it tough.

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whattheduce86 t1_j6qatt2 wrote

It is tough I agree, I also have kids. but that is more than some people get. I try to always have two backup baby sitters in case i need one. Also any good company won’t count snow days against you.

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notnotpegbundy t1_j6rp9dq wrote

“Any good company won’t count snow days against you”

You must not work for a corporation.

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whattheduce86 t1_j6rtl56 wrote

You mean like Truck Hero? The worlds biggest supplier of truck bed covers? Yea they forgive snow days.

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notnotpegbundy t1_j6rvba0 wrote

I work for a healthcare company, a snow day is a snow day is a sick day. We don’t have “excused” snow days, so pardon my disbelief.

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whattheduce86 t1_j6ry066 wrote

Yeah, I get that. the whole health care system is screwed here in the US.

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notnotpegbundy t1_j6rz7ny wrote

Believe me, if I could talk about what I see daily…

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whattheduce86 t1_j6rzmmy wrote

My sister used to work for a hospital. She doesn’t have to work but chooses to do so but switched and does in home care and said it’s so much better.

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fphillips93 t1_j6vbkuc wrote

I work in healthcare, too. My boss was cool with staying and working when her employees couldn’t make it in due to dangerous conditions.

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FrankenRabies t1_j6qbtsc wrote

That is far from enough. Laughable what we put up with in the US, especially here in the Midwest.

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whattheduce86 t1_j6qcmrn wrote

That’s what unions are for is it? I know other countries have it better, but we will never be like those countries. The US is just too big of a country with too many greedy rich people.

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notnotpegbundy t1_j6row1z wrote

Or..hot take…teachers aren’t your fucking babysitters.

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Pretending2beme t1_j6q60dj wrote

There are a lot more kids walking to school since they had to cut back bus routes due to a shortage of drivers. That goes for K-12. The kids missing a few days of school is well worth the safety of them walking or waiting for a bus. The bus routes are on more residential roads than main roads. For kids standing out waiting for a bus or walking there are too many risk factors to bring them back. Call school off for a few days, let the roads clear, and they can make it up at the end of the year when it's not as dangerous for the kids.

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Unhappy_Coffee5443 t1_j6td5d5 wrote

A point I haven't seen brought up in this thread yet is not only is it dangerous for buses, but also the teens driving themselves. Teenagers are one of (if not the most) likely group to get in a car accident and tend to have very little (if any) experience driving on ice. Best not to take a high risk group and make their risk even higher.

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HappyGoIdiot t1_j6qk5g9 wrote

Wtf do you mean by show a good example to kids of working class families? Like risking your life and risking paying the deductible on your insurance for unsafe road conditions?

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Cloud_Disconnected t1_j6qkma9 wrote

Back in my day we got snow instead of ice, I think that has a lot to do with it.

Thanks a lot, climate change.

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fphillips93 t1_j6vbcnr wrote

Damn. Y’all hate your kids, don’t you? Any time I get to spend with my 2 are times I cherish. Can’t imagine bitching that you’re missing work and getting to hang with your littles for a whole week. If your landlord isn’t understanding, that sucks for y’all.

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BonelessLucy t1_j6vbu71 wrote

That's the thing, though. Not everyone has the means to be able to skip work. Bully for you if you get to spend time with your kids but not everyone can afford to miss work.

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fphillips93 t1_j6vc5bt wrote

Nobody can afford to miss work these days, but damn…. Work is really ALL y’all care about? Money isn’t the only thing worth chasing.

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BonelessLucy t1_j6vf2ra wrote

Yeah but it is necessary to live, unfortunately. Especially if you have kids. You have to have the means to support them.

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WendyArmbuster t1_j6q8a1e wrote

The decision that the schools have to make is that if they don't get a certain percentage of attendance in a particular day they don't get credit for that day from their state and/or federal funding. Sure, schools don't want to be to blame if a bus goes off the road, but the main reason is funding.

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KTfl1 t1_j6qbnqp wrote

I think a lot of the outdoor stored diesel busses have a difficult time starting when it's this cold as well.

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DrMcdoctory t1_j6ro0tc wrote

I personally counted 6 plows down my home street while I worked from home yesterday, plowing and salting. The street remained covered with ice. Sorry kilo417 but the answer to AITA is maybe yes.

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ollywithanh t1_j6scbob wrote

I agree with the majority. Ice is different than snow. With that said, the first two times school was cancelled-it was just snowy and was melted or plowed by late morning. When I was growing up they had 2 hour morning delays for these type of situations. Now, with the ice the last 3 days, if you look at the parking lots and residential neighborhoods, they are bad! And that’s where the danger comes in because the buses are having to drive through neighborhoods to pick up kids. And yes, I’d much rather get a call the night before when you know the weather is not getting any better, than at 5 am.

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jackie_wiggiwoo t1_j6rshob wrote

There are a few childcare options available for school age children. I personally use the one through the Parkboard but the Y as well as the OC in Ozark have this service.

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mysickfix t1_j6svmd3 wrote

they have to think about people who walk to school, side streets and sidewalks are fucked.

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PinchePoderes t1_j6qg9uz wrote

I mean, I grew up in Montana, snow days weren’t a thing unless the power was out. Which happened exactly once between 5th and 12th grade; even then it was only an early release.

I really don’t think there is a plow issue here. I drive most of the day for work and I’ve been out all week. The roads are basically fine, can’t really plow ice, they salted the fuck out of everything.

I moved here in 2016 and the first thing I noticed was the weather hysteria. I had a buddy that’s a local call me once to warn me of a tornado 50 miles away. I mean, 50 miles away, nothing happened. But the dude was so worked up about it 🤷🏼‍♂️.

I think ultimately the school cancelations are weather hysteria and an lawsuit avoidance.

Edit: Montana didn’t really use salt, they has some kinda dirt sand mix. I guess I just don’t get the panic, it’s pretty okay out there. I literally only fishtailed once in the last two days and that was in a pile of slush at a yield sign.

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No-Rush7406 t1_j6s0mso wrote

Been a local my whole life and the word tornado puts me to sleep. Meanwhile, my fiancé, who is not a local, used to freak the F out during tornado season when she first moved here. She’s gotten a lot better about it since then.

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fphillips93 t1_j6vbzhu wrote

You’re from Montana, not Missouri. That, by itself, is the difference. I’m from Illinois and grew up with snow keeping us locked in the house because it was up to the bottom of the windows. I can drive in snow, in ice, in tornadoes, in blizzards, in rain. It’s shitty and it’s scary. Missourians can’t drive when it’s 100 degrees and sunny out. Kids would literally die if these bus drivers were expected to drive on sheet ice in 9 degrees.

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