Submitted by laffingriver t3_xuqiov in springfieldMO
Are the people concerned about the house at sunshine and national more interested in preserving the old home or is it about more retail spaces?
Would University Heights be okay with an apartment complex?
Replace “poor” with “non existent”, otherwise you are 100% correct
I mean you’re right that there wasn’t really “urban planning” regarding the home layout and street placement of national or sunshine.
But like…..man of those homes and all of those roads were laid out in like, ya know, 1890-1920 in that part of town.
So yeah, you are correct it wasn’t exactly urban planned for the needs of a modern city. But how could it have been?
My understanding was the edge of town was sunshine and battlefield was farm land. Traffic should shift to Battlefield and not have gone through a developed residential area.
Edit: still can.
It was, in like 1860. At one point Phelps grove park was considered inconveniently far out of town.
But the residential sprawl crept slowly outward over the years. It didn’t happen all at once. That area was “fully developed” as in most of the houses and lots were in place and built on as we see and know them today by about 1930.
However at that time battlefield was still the boonies and way out of town and basically farm land.
Most cities in the world aren’t centrally planned, they grow organically over time. Roads that originally catered to like a thousand people mostly on foot and in horse carriages were not laid out with hundreds of thousands of cars in mind, or with the intention of being major corridors between sections of regional hub city.
That’s all true, terrible city planning. But like…..duh. Of course it is. Who in like 1840 when national and sunshine were first laid out could possible have planned for the reality of 2022?
But of course road ways can be torn up and redone, homes can be placed under imminent Domain and demolished to re-do the transportation grid. That’s an option. But what are you proposing? If I gave you the city planner pen and guaranteed approval for whatever you propose, what are you proposing?
At this point an easy solution would be for the city to buy the home and either turn it into a low density office or tear it down and build a pocket park as a buffer to the neighborhood. It could be a nice looking corner.
.....I thought you were complaining about national being a "pseudo highway" due to poor urban planning, and fixing that is what we were speculating about.
How would putting a park on that corner help with that at all. In fact if that park were popular and drew addition traffic to that area it would make the problem worse.
And if you put a park in the footprint of that property, that wouldn't "buffer the neighborhood" it would buffer, let's see, taking a look at the assessor map, exactly zero additional houses. The house immediately to the north and the house immediately to the west would still be road front, and their back yards intersect behind that corner house, and there are no other adjacent properties.
So it would provide absolutely no additional buffering.
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So I'm not sure what you are getting at.
And I'm not trying to be difficult, I just, I hear people make these complaints all the time, and to actually fix what they want fixed the city would have to imminent domain literally hundreds of houses across the city and substantially redo the traffic system in town. Which yeah, if the city gets big enough someday we'd likely have to do that, but I don't think it's there yet, and for every 1 person mad about the roads, you'd have 1000 people made about the aggressive property snatching and expense and several years of construction needed to make it happen.
Yeah, I have always assumed that any "planning" here involved absolutely zero assumptions that it would grow any bigger than it was at that moment.
Still the plan they seem to be working with
> It’s just a shame that our major roads have become pseudo highways because of poor urban planning.
That was my biggest complaint when I lived in Springfield was how much of a nightmare it was to get around town due to lack of any "real" highway other than around the periphery.
I lived in the Phelps Grove area and there was nowhere I could get quickly without fighting traffic except downtown.
Chestnut Expressway is not an expressway. Not sure who came up with the idea of naming those roads choked with traffic lights expressways.
That house has been vacant the entire time I've lived here. A few years ago someone tried to convert it into a bandb/ long term stay place targeted towards folks with family at mercy and they wouldn't let them rezone it for that either. Tear it down and build a park I they won't let someone make use of it.. No one with the money wants to live on that corner and take care of that old house, I mean seriously.
There was a renter in that house up until a few weeks ago. The owner/developer moved the tenant over next door in order to demo.
There may have been someone there as recently as a few weeks ago. Aside of that person, the house has been vacant for years. It was occupied at one point with a family when it was on the market pre covid. Love how people that don't have the facts are trying to invent them for their narratives..you should be in politics!
I can tell you that all three of those houses are slated for demolition and one of the Duda scions are planning g on putting in one of those “bottom floor is retail, top floors are overpriced lofts” kk da deals. There was a whole neighborhood meeting about it in which the neighborhood was shot down every time they tried to speak.
What three houses?
The house immediately West on sunshine and immediately north on national
They have filed permits for all 3, obviously approved for the corner since it is no longer
All I know is the owner is a complete douche for literally creating a ridiculous LLC in order to put an ugly sign around an ugly fence just to be petty.
It’s typical not-in-my-backyard Springfield mentality. I get not wanting the neighborhood changed, but that’s literally one of the busiest intersections in all of Springfield and yet neighbors will be mad about any proposed change of use if they’re allowed to have an opinion. I call it Galloway Syndrome, and it’s spreading faster than Covid ever did.
Exactly, it is one of the busiest intersections in town. Why needlessly increase congestion there when the entire stretch of north sunshine between national and glenstone is under developed commercial property?
You think one property is going to materially impact the traffic count at that intersection? Please. Traffic flows through that intersection because it’s situated smack dab in the middle of Springfield. It’s best use and value is clearly commercial and not a residence trying to live at that corner. But please keep shaking your fist and yelling at people to get off your lawn!
What do you mean by Galloway syndrome? Is it better now that there's more housing that's still unaffordable? 950 for a studio apartment and unfilled storefronts is better?
More housing is good yes. Even if it's overpriced because more competition means landlords have to compete more, lowering housing prices.
Want to make landlords lose their shorts? Build a metric fuckton of housing.
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As someone relatively new to that neighborhood, the general consensus seems to be that they want to preserve the historical homes and don’t want to worsen traffic in the area. They also feel that the developers were dishonest about their intentions when they purchased the properties. The developers held a meeting with neighbors that quickly became very heated and was abruptly ended. I think most of the neighbors understand that the homes are not necessarily “livable” due to their location - who wants to spend a lot of money on an old, beautiful house in need of repairs on the busiest intersection in town? But no one had any great ideas on what exactly should be done with it, hence the lack of action by neighbors to purchase it. But, do we really need another strip mall? And why would anyone want to live in an over-business loft in the same location? Why demolish something historical and beautiful and throw up another vape shop or car wash? The developers have a permit to demolish the white house on the corner that’s good until 11/15, so I imagine no amount of grumbling will stop them from knocking it down and making a money grab in favor of preserving a little bit of character and history.
i wouldnt be as upset about apartments but i would feel bad for the people next door if they put in a gas station or something.
then those people will move out and we have another home for sale and further retail creep until the entire neigborhood is an abandoned strip mall. the retail spaces at sunshine and campbell have vacancies, national and grand have vacancies, national and sunshine, national and fremont have vacancies.
what businesses will go to the residential plot that arent gling to these other corners?
i bet these developers dont want to succeed and want something from taxes. and if they can lower property values thats good for them too bc they can snatch up houses and raise th rent.
Is that what the rezoning question is about? I couldn’t find any info online.
That house is the new Heer's Building. Surprised it's not boarded up.
personally, I thought it was a beautiful house and I'm devastated to see it gone, but if it were replaced by a new house I wouldn't complain. my main concern lies with traffic- there's already a strip mall across the street, a new Cox building, the Mercy ER, and just further down sunshine is the Chicken Strip which everyone knows is an absolute traffic nightmare now. Campbell and sunshine is a business district, but with this spot they're gonna have to worry about higher traffic in that area, and it absolutely cannot handle higher traffic especially with it being in an area where there's a higher amount of pedestrians. springfield is already shit at stopping for pedestrians! hell, a pedestrian was hit and killed by a car this morning. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ozarksfirst.com/local-news/regional-news/springfield-news/one-person-hit-and-killed-by-a-car-in-southeast-springfield-tuesday/amp/
and here's a more full list of pedestrians hit by cars
https://www.ozarksfirst.com/local-news/regional-news/springfield-news/how-many-people-have-been-hit-by-cars-in-springfield-this-year/?ipid=hitbycars_carrie1&segment=1qxsto7s_amp_id*ZlVkQi1RZkRScmRxT2FPS01MS0ppV2xkS2FNbWVycDgyelhadHpHX00tbkpkNTFubGZvdFFRaFhyMnB1OUFkZQ..
encouraging higher traffic in an area with higher pedestrian traffic, emergency medical traffic, and elementary school traffic is a DANGEROUS idea. if Springfield has a problem with car accidents and pedestrians getting hit, why are we not focusing on what we're actually doing wrong? I don't care how much money these churches and car washes and strip malls and luxury apartment complexes make developers. their search for money is why driving and walking isn't safe in town. these fast cash deals being made without any thought into how they affect the flow of the city is what has made the area so dangerous to live in. they don't stimulate the economy outside of the already wealthy people who own these things, most of these cute little restaurants and boutiques pay like shit and the car washes barely need any staff at all. of course crime is also going up, the economy is crap and homelessness is through the roof and all springfield does to help the poor is put them in jail and strong-arm pointless development that encourages traffic (when traffic is known to be a huge issue) next to an Emergency Room and an Elementary School. the priorities are all fucked up
if you're mad about this, the next town hall meeting is the place to be mad about it. We cannot just complain on the internet and feel like we got our political good boy points, now is the time to be mad and demand change directly. I cannot safely drive to work anymore because of how horrible traffic is. I am afraid of walking sometimes because of how often I hear of people getting hit. we have to admit that this horrible development is negatively impacting our lives and ability to live here and we have to do something about it.
The house is fine. It's a scam to get zoning kick backs. Throw some boards on the windows with spray paint on them and call it condemned. Ok.. Hear it's an ex NBA player who owns it too. Maybe got tired of the vacation home and now wants to make money off it at neighbors quality of life expense.
This is nonsensical. However Duda and Tolliver are going about it all wrong.
That being said the white home and others were for sale for nearly a decade. If the neighborhood cared so much for them someone would have bought it and lived in it.
They have all the rights in the world to tear down what they own, there's nothing legally stopping them. If I owned a house and it wasn't protected (like most of Springfield) you can't stop me.
If it was in a quiet neighborhood I’d be more sympathetic but it’s an extremely busy intersection already dominated by businesses. Neighbors could have banded together and bought it themselves if they wanted to preserve it, instead they’d rather just criticize the developer based on the charade that it’s historical.
Oh shit, they're tearing it down.
Plenty of apartments in Springfield, you know what is non existent now, homes in the $100k-$120k. Five years ago this money would have bought a young couple a 3 bed 2 bath house. Homes are the largest factor to starting your own financial independence. Screw more rentals IMO.
true, shoot not even 5 years ago prices were lower.
home ownership has been out of reach for a lot of people because wages werent rising as fast as home value. and ‘09 made loans harder to get.
also, those houses you are taking about arent necessarily being built. and if they are the interest rates are also a barrier to afford a home, so that couple needs ro rent, so rental houses increase for everyone. student loans are also a barrier to home ownership.
long term i would rather have more single family homes. grant ave may solve some of this or at least be a model. even those which do exist are better as air bnbs. its infuriating.
if a developer wanted to build in my neighborhood i would rather have apartments than a strip mall.
I take your point and somewhat agree in areas.
City’s, states, federal government subsidize business interest for “jobs they create”, that money could be used to do anything. Subsidizing entry level home building could be one.
Fed want to curb inflation through interest rate hikes, to lower demand and cool the job market. They could easy set 2 levels of interest rates a lower rate for average people needing housing and starting a life through borrowing. Then a higher rate for wealthy and business interest, which would actually lower demand since poor folks to buy stuff.
It isn’t the lack of options, it just isn’t in the interest of the elite.
yes exactly and what can local gov do when facing a system setup this way ?
politicians like to cut ribbons and developers like to get big checks.
the local PZ committee vote in isnt capable of taking on fed policy designed to ensure their own stock portfolio rises.
All the deeds specifically state that the land be used in one specific designated way (single family homes). It is an historic neighborhood with specific rules similar to an HOA.
What next. McDonald's in the middle of Phelps Grove Park. Think of the disruptive nature it will have for all those late night men? Will no Springfield tradition be safe? Shame I say.
Well it’s only happening like this because people like to have fun with one another.
name-isnt-important t1_iqwvn86 wrote
Don’t live there but I suspect it’s about both. The charm of the area are the homes and most would rather have a nice house with friendly neighbors than a strip mall. It’s just a shame that our major roads have become pseudo highways because of poor urban planning.