Comments
evilspawn_usmc t1_j0wv7gi wrote
Your comment reminded me of an adage I heard.
A bad driver never misses their turn, a good driver does.
Wrinklestiltskin t1_j0ysbbk wrote
The way I heard it: "A good driver sometimes misses their exit. A bad driver never misses their exit."
[deleted] t1_j0v1ib7 wrote
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poth3lps t1_j0v6207 wrote
To the people defending the idiot in the red car here, I'm gonna go ahead and tell you right off that if you have any sort of empathy for this person, like actual empathy, you'd recognize the need for them to understand why this shouldn't be happening. Ridiculous comments like "Why take a photo?" Here's a good reason why: People are fed up with this shit because it is dangerous. I slow down for seemingly empty lights that I have green on, like a motorcyclist, because of the stupid shit I've seen in Springfield. Mostly from unaware drivers. Not trying to be discriminatory, but I also see a fuck load of elderly people death gripping the wheel and doing 20 mph under. Coming from a generation that was incessantly told how to behave 'correctly' by that age group. It's absolutely infuriating because they're putting themselves at risk, and basically saying 'fuck everyone else's safety, i have to get my groceries!'. It is incorrect behavior to turn the road into your own personal playground. If something is disabling you, it sucks. I know it does. Lots of my family are disabled and it makes life very difficult. But if you are incapable of driving safely, and you go out and drive anyway? That's wrong. Akin to drinking and driving. Some may see 'a guy who made a mistake'. How would a cop see this? 'An impaired driver'.
IF YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF FOLLOWING THE EXTREMELY SIMPLY ROAD LAWS AND LANE MARKERS, OR NAVIGATING THE ROADS AT OR NEAR THE POSTED SPEED LIMIT, YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE BEHIND THE WHEEL. EMPHASIS ON 'INCAPABLE'
flug32 t1_j0wkqwi wrote
>NAVIGATING THE ROADS AT OR NEAR THE POSTED SPEED LIMIT
I will just mention that there is no minimum speed limit on the vast majority of roads in Missouri (the one exception is interstate freeways, which have a marked minimum speed limit).
In all other places, it is completely incumbent on any and every driver to assume that there might be people driving - or bicycling, scootering, tractoring, mail-delivering, horse-drawn carting or doing any of any of 10 dozen other perfectly legal and normal things - at anywhere from 1 mph up to the speed limit.
Someone driving at 10mph or 20 mph on the road is not and should not be especially dangerous and it is not especially unusual. Farm tractors and other farm equipment will drive miles down the road at 10mph or so and everyone just deals with it. It is not illegal and also not especially dangerous.
Especially now that you know, and you are going to drive from here on out with that in the forefront of your mind.
Also, I will point out Missouri law that most drivers like to forget:
>Every person operating a motor vehicle on the roads and highways of this state shall drive the vehicle in a careful and prudent manner and at a rate of speed so as not to endanger the property of another or the life or limb of any person and shall exercise the highest degree of care. 304.012 RSMo
As a motor vehicle driver, you must drive at all times with the highest degree of care.
That is a might high bar.
That means, among other things, that you are driving at all times as though someone may be stopped, or going 10mph, or 20 mph, over any given hill or around any given curve, or at any intersection.
That means, that with the degree of safe driving that you are doing, that those 20mph elderly drivers are in absolutely no danger at all from you, because you are anticipating them and the fact that they - or anyone else - might be going that speed.
Also I will point out, that you will probably want to point out that the slow driver is breaking this law as their super-slow speed is "a rate of speed so as ... to endanger the property of another or the life or limb of any person". This is absolutely wrong and the courts have never held it to mean this. They have, on the contrary, held that there is no minimum speed limit unless that is specifically set.
And what they have held is that driving too fast for conditions - even if under the stated speed limit - is not legal if driving at that too-fast speed endangers others.
Finally I will point out that too-fast driving is responsible for or substantially contributes to a large amount of our traffic deaths and serious injuries. But too-slow driving is such a non-problem as far as traffic safety that no one even bothers to track fatalities and injuries related to it.
High driving speed is a quadruple whammy, as events happen too fast for people to observe and react to, once you do notice something amiss the time for you to react is much shorter, once you do react the high speed makes it much harder to maneuver or brake in time to avoid a crash, and when you do crash higher speeds mean more damage and higher injuries.
Not only are higher speeds worse on all four of those factors, but in fact the problem in each of those four areas grow exponentially with speed. Going twice as fast is not just twice as dangerous, but more like 4X.
More details/research: https://nacto.org/publication/city-limits/the-need/speed-kills
thrwy4286 t1_j0wmtlg wrote
Wow. Do a lot of slow driving huh?
flug32 t1_j0xd73x wrote
FOAD.
I do very little driving period, because it's a fool's game from just about every angle. But when I do, I go whatever speed I need to to be safe and it's your job to do the same literally no matter what speed other people are driving. Or walking or biking or carting or whatever it is they do.
There is literally no minimum speed limit in Missouri and if you think there is or should be then you are the problem, not people who, for whatever reason, want or need to go slower as is their perfect legal right.
A surprise to many, but going as fast as you want in your car is not a constitutionally protected right.
But exercising the highest degree of care towards other drivers and everyone else on the road whenever you drive is in fact your legal duty.
Wyldfire2112 t1_j0yae40 wrote
Oh fuck off with that self-righteous bullshit.
It's statistically proven you're a bigger danger to others driving slower than the pace of traffic than faster. If you can't keep up with the flow, you shouldn't be in it.
It's a good thing you don't drive, because you're the asshole making traffic worse and more dangerous for everyone else.
flug32 t1_j12w9bt wrote
What you are talking about is the so-called "Solomon Curve". This if oft-quoted research which seems to show that slower moving drivers in a rural highway type situation have far more crashes than those driving with the flow of traffic and even those driving a fair bit faster than average.
There are three basic problems with this, however:
- It is research on rural highway and freeway type situations that applies only that that particular situation. We might all agree that driving 25 mph on an 80 mph freeway is best to be avoided, if you can. But it has literally no application to streets and roads in a town or city - that's not where any of the data behind the Solomon Curve came from.
- The researchers did not separate out turning situations from the "slow driver" situation, which is the one we are talking about here. Turning and crossing movements are disproportionately represented in rural highway crashes - people are usually going quite slow during turns.
It's the turning part that increases the risk of collisions, though - not the slow speed. Solomon massively skewed his research by including all these turning drivers and classifying them as "slow drivers".
- More recent and careful research has rather definitely overturned the "Solomon Curve".
Here is decent research summary that makes all the same basic points I did in my two comments above, but backs them with citations and evidence, and also tackles the Solomon Curve "are slow drivers dangerous?" issue:
Regarding the supposed high crash risk of slow driving, it says:
>The first studies of this type were conducted in the United States in the 1950s and 1960s, e.g. Solomon (1964). These studies always found a U-curve: the slower or faster a car drives compared with most of the vehicles on that road, the more the risk of being involved in a crash increased.
>
>However, more recent studies, especially those carried out in Australia (e.g. Kloeden et al., 1997; 2001; 2002) that used more modern measuring instruments and used a more accurate research design, reached a different conclusion. They still indicate that vehicles that drive faster than average on that road have a higher crash rate; vehicles that drive slower, however, were found not to have an increased risk (Figure 3).
Figure 3 is worth taking a look at. For rural roads, it shows:
- Slightly lower crash risk for those traveling slower than average.
- Slightly higher crash risk for those traveling faster than average
For urban roads, the situation is somewhat different:
- Still slightly lower crash risk for those traveling slower than average.
- However, massively higher crash risk for those traveling much faster than average.
If you're going say 5mph faster than average, the crash risk just just a bit higher - about what you'd expect.
But drive 10-15 mph faster than the average speed and now we're talking 10X-30X increased crash risk.
[deleted] t1_j0v7irw wrote
>Here's a good reason why: People are fed up with this shit because it is dangerous
That's not even close to a good reason. I'm sick of wiping my kids ass but I'm not gonna post a picture of their shitty ass on the internet.
People make mistakes. The person in this picture is living an entire life you know nothing about. Give them some fucking slack instead of trying to shame them.
This world needs more empathy.
poth3lps t1_j0v9fxc wrote
I can tell you've become emotionally attached to this, so to give a tidbit of advice, if you know anyone or can think of a single person you might care even a little about that would do this-
They might not be aware of how unsafe it is. Empathy includes hard truths. Hard truths like "grandma, you could hurt yourself or others." Hard truths like "If you can't focus good, grandpa, how can you drive safely?"
Again, I reiterate: IF YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF FOLLOWING ROAD LAWS, DRIVING SAFELY FROM ONE POINT TO ANOTHER, KEEPING TO OR NEAR POSTED SPEED LIMITS, YOU SHOULD NOT BE BEHIND THE WHEEL. KEY EMPHASIS ON INCAPABLE
Edit: empathy also includes mutual awareness of what is lawful and what is not. I cannot empathize with someone who chooses to break the law repeatedly.
[deleted] t1_j0vasiy wrote
There you go again thinking you know everything about everyone.
Cloud_Disconnected t1_j0viu0e wrote
> This world needs more empathy.
r/SpringfieldMo:
> Fuck you
Pretty much proves your point.
emtrigg013 t1_j0whe1x wrote
Your kids shitty ass won't kill somebody or jack around with another person's insurance bill.
[deleted] t1_j0wsx2c wrote
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Anima_EB t1_j0uz2ri wrote
People in Springfield in general need to pay more attention while driving. Maybe we should put a focus on that. My son and I have almost been crashed into multiple times taking my gf 2 blocks away to work. I don't blame OP at all. People in Springfield can't drive for shit.
Mountain_Homie t1_j0ve1cb wrote
I've said this so many times before, but I say it again. I've lived in several big cities and a few small towns. Springfield, MO has the worst drivers by far of anywhere I've lived. I think it's because of the small town driving mind set with a larger population traffic count.
MacAttack2015 t1_j0w7717 wrote
I moved here from Chicago and the drivers here are so much worse than there. Especially when it comes to respecting bike/ped infrastructure. Folks here don't seem to give a rat's ass about you if you travel outside of a personal vehicle, and even then drivers are constantly on their cell phones putting other drivers in danger. It's horrible.
Anima_EB t1_j0vordi wrote
Absolutely. We just moved back from STL. That area can be bad but springfield is shockingly bad.
Quirky_Employment684 t1_j0wqs9x wrote
Grew up on the west coast, lived on the east coast for quite a while and have now lived here going on five years, and every time I think I've seen the extent of how bad people can drive, I am proven wrong.
This area consistently has the worst drivers I have ever encountered.
GimmeAMalt t1_j0xnnwv wrote
You dead on nailed it. Grew up visiting my grandparents in Springfield as a kid in the 80’s and 90’s and also lived there from 2001-2006 while attending college. To this day I still talk about how it’s the worst driving I’ve ever seen. I have a few friends that still live there that say it has not improved at all in the 16 years since I moved. But yeah, I use to always preach the same theory as you as to why it’s so bad.
NotBatman81 t1_j0vqdi4 wrote
You guys seem to not understand what empathy means. It means I understand how you feel. I understand you feel ashamed by this picture. It has nothing to do with agreeing with you. I can feel your shame and at the same time agree that you are a dumbass and deserved it.
So please stop saying people lack empathy when they call out poor behavior.
Cloud_Disconnected t1_j0w7423 wrote
Maybe empathy is the wrong word. Maybe instead we should say that people lack compassion, or grace, or humility.
It's easy to say, 'the dumbass deserves it,' and it's hard to treat people better than they deserve.
Television_Wise t1_j0wdrfe wrote
Careless driving kills people. Shame serves an important function in society. It is not always bad for someone to be shamed. Better for them to feel a little embarassed because their photo is on Reddit, than to have someone dead because they never face any consequences for their actions until it's too late.
Minor consequences now (shame) to help prevent major ones later (fatal auto accidents).
>Maybe instead we should say that people lack compassion, or grace, or humility.
When your "compassion" serves to enable someone to keep harming others, it's not compassion.
emtrigg013 t1_j0whmdj wrote
A lot of people think compassion and enabling are the same thing. As evident on this post.
Cloud_Disconnected t1_j0wp9pv wrote
No one is defending careless driving in general, or this example in particular. And putting aside the fact that there are already laws in place to address this type of careless driving, is shame-based behavior modification really what you think is going on here?
Judging by the comments that are getting upvotes, I'd say it's more people venting their frustrations, which I admit are justified, at the person who has been placed in front of them as a target.
We've seen historically how that sort of thing plays out. I'm not comparing anyone here to those historical examples, that would be an absolutely ridiculous comparison in terms of scope and intent. But, if the same dynamic doesn't exist here, a parallel one does.
Television_Wise t1_j0wqtec wrote
>there are already laws in place to address this type of careless driving,
Oh boy, first day in Springfield I take it? Laws mean nothing if they're not enforced.
Cloud_Disconnected t1_j0wsiwo wrote
Nope, and I complain about drivers here as much as anyone, I'll freely admit. And yeah, enforcement is lacking. I still don't think that justifies putting someone's pic up to ridicule them. Apparently I'm in the distinct minority here, though.
Yomrdbz t1_j0v9303 wrote
Fucking hate springfield drivers. It's almost an obstacle course with how much I'm having to avoid the idiots, daily.
twitch2296 t1_j0w5yvw wrote
They just left mardels. They thought Jesus would take the wheel.
MacAttack2015 t1_j0w7fvl wrote
The only thing Jesus will take from you is your weekly tithing.
Snekathan t1_j0w0mmm wrote
The people saying to mind your business and have some empathy are bad drivers
oleshorty t1_j0y2hl3 wrote
There is a sign at that intersection that says not to block the intersection where the road that goes parallel to glenstone takes you to home goods. If that intersection is blocked traffic turning on to Erie gets stuck on Glenstone. I always stop so I don't block the intersection. Several times I have had people drive around and pull in front of me. Thus blocking the intersection to get one car length ahead. Peoples nuts in this town!
Television_Wise t1_j0wcy5v wrote
You're nicer than me. I give them the hood-knock, or if I'm on my bike, aim my kick at their headlight.
If they don't like it they can pick up a Driver's Manual at the DMV and start following the laws.
RayMan89477 t1_j0vpo7y wrote
Sad to see these days how bad traffic is getting.
goodvibesmaryjane t1_j0wak6q wrote
After getting hit this year by someone making a right hand turn into a parking lot from the damn turn lane, thank you for posting this!! Keep calling them out, it’s a great reminder to myself to continue being even more aware of everything around me while driving
Sally_twodicks t1_j0x0qv0 wrote
Truly, I have never seen such fucking terrible drivers like here.
[deleted] t1_j0xnely wrote
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NotATroll1234 t1_j22j8ym wrote
A few years back, I was heading north on Campbell, and was going to turn left at the intersection of Sunshine. I was in the turn lane that would put me on the outer/north lane of Sunshine. The car in the other turn lane decides, as the light changes, "ya know what, never mind" and just continues north, sideswiping my car. Riding shotgun was a family member who had been in a catastrophic crash about a year prior, and their condition was still precarious. A sudden shock like that could have severely aggravated their healing injuries, so I was livid. I was able to get a license plate while they called 911. I pulled over, an officer met us and took statements, and one of their friends took them to the hospital. I was later informed that the driver was uninsured, and driving on a suspended license. Thankfully, my family member was not seriously hurt, and the damage to my car was minimal. Take the L, pull into one of the parking lots down the road, and turn around. Stop putting people at risk.
Mr_Kaniowski t1_j0wt79c wrote
I've been nearly hit by people pulling out on West Bypass 2 or 3 times now. People here are morons.
Embarrassed_Feed_145 t1_j0zbwrg wrote
truly we need to keep calling out these dangerous drivers. keep posting them idc
bushyplatypus t1_j0vdvww wrote
Take a picture and put it on Reddit. That’ll show’em!
biergarten t1_j0vot2e wrote
If I ever found my car on here, I'd be embarrassed.
ActionFalcon t1_j0uzrf2 wrote
Could you imagine how many of these kinds of posts we would have if everybody thought their run-in with a bad driver in this city was worth posting about? The sub would be flooded.
I really don't know what OP is expecting in posting this. A round of applause for seeing one of our many poor drivers? Well then, congratulations, I guess.
Ramza2b t1_j0uy35w wrote
If a random person was taking pictures of me in public, I too would give them a dirty look.
giftedgaia OP t1_j0v0zi9 wrote
Huh, that's weird. I would expect someone to notice if I were openly breaking the law.
turned_out_normal t1_j0uy4wm wrote
Everybody makes mistakes.
thrwy4286 t1_j0v080o wrote
Their mistake does not justify them blocking crosswalks and doing illegal turns. If you've made a mistake don't break right-of-way and the flow of traffic and expect everyone around you to adjust. If he made a mistake by going straight when he intended to turn right he should have gone straight and found someplace safe to turn around.
[deleted] t1_j0wwnks wrote
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ar9750 t1_j0v0r7n wrote
And this is a fairly tame one.
[deleted] t1_j0uy80m wrote
Ok? Mind your own business. You have no idea what that person is dealing with that may have led to this. What benefit does taking a picture and posting it on the internet do? Do you want people taking a picture of you every time you make a mistake?
Axegrinder2014 t1_j0uuaka wrote
Probably because you're acting like a Karen
giftedgaia OP t1_j0uutvj wrote
I like taking pictures of selfish idiots in the wild. It amuses me.
Dizzy-Assignment-591 t1_j0v4ubm wrote
congrats buddy you wasted time and breath on this loser
thrwy4286 t1_j0v7uyx wrote
Pot meet kettle
EcoAffinity t1_j0v13mm wrote
I'm tired of giving people who make stupid decisions a pass for their stupidity. This person could have just gone straight and met back at Glenstone and Primrose. People just can't stop and use an iota of common sense anymore.