Submitted by Realistic-Sun3480 t3_zr9pg0 in springfieldMO
Comments
Cloud_Disconnected t1_j14674o wrote
I wasn't wondering, I already knew it was going to be pit bulls.
Tiny_Fly_7397 t1_j13ubo4 wrote
Because what other breed of dog would it be
lincoln3x7 t1_j15xbj7 wrote
And yet the owners will never stop defending them.
KrazolS t1_j173bx9 wrote
Didn’t read article but I would assume the owners are held responsible? Sure hope so
DebbieDunnbbar t1_j12zxib wrote
Hurr durr it’s not the breed, it’s irresponsible owners durrrrrr
You know what happens if you’re an irresponsible owner of a Beagle? He steals the food off your kitchen table and doesn’t come when you call him. He doesn’t maul an entire playground of children.
People should have to have a license and insurance to own a pit bull.
Ryanqzqz t1_j13ll7p wrote
It's not always irresponsible owners, either. I had to euthanize a corgi several years ago because despite being kind, loving, and cuddly - because when our neighbors dog had puppies, anytime she came anywhere near our yard and my wife or kids were also present, my Corgi would go into full defensive mode.
Neighbors dog was a loving, cuddling Lab mix. Great with everyone and constantly full of tail wags.
About a week into trying to keep them separated; I got a phone call one afternoon on my drive home. Our corgi had lit into the neighbors Lab and my wife couldn't calm them down.
I arrived to my Corgi, death-latched onto the labs neck and ear, blood everywhere, all over my children, all over both dogs, all over the yards - The lab is standing there whimpering; crouching down to keep her head low, and my Corgi is doing that thing little dogs do with toys, where they shake their heads back and forth.
Kicking, scolding, commanding (and she was well trained) and even spraying with water didn't work...I had to choke hold my Corgi to unconsciousness to get her to release.
After cleaning them off, all the blood was from the Lab, my dog was unscathed.
My kids were traumatized, I was worried what would happen if my 90lb wife was home alone the next time this occurred....
Neighbor said they felt guilty because it must've been their dogs fault for heading into our yard to see my kids. I told them heck no - the fault was all mine for not keeping my dog away and not figuring out how to get her trained to leave the Lab alone, or some-such avoidance of the inevitable....
That said - if you have a dog you know is capable of damage - you have to be responsible with it.... even if they're nice, and cuddly, and warm - and OBVIOUSLY this owner was not, at least in this instance.... I took my consequences and had to lose a best friend, because I was dumb... it won't happen again - but I care about my dogs like their my kids.... Imagine what happens to any dog when they aren't treated that way/marginalized/not socialized and/or they're actively treated worse.
DebbieDunnbbar t1_j13mk29 wrote
I’m not disagreeing. Dogs can do that shit even when raised in a great environment.
But it’s hard to know what pit bull apologists mean by “irresponsible” (and the goal posts probably move on that anyway). Some people, like the guy below, it apparently means abusing the shit out of your dog. Others it seems to mean shit like not having a tall fence for your giant pit bull. The only consistent thing is they will never admit certain breeds are prone to this shit.
Ryanqzqz t1_j13n002 wrote
Agreed! On all points!
I mean, my father-in-law used to train Malinois for police work and SAR... are they inherently aggressive? No? Are they inherently able to be made aggressive with a higher propensity than some other breeds? Yes.
A lot of it has to do with activity drive. But most dog owners don't have time for that - and if you leave a dog with high activity drive to its own devices, it's going to find things to do - and those will be dog-centric and dog-oriented things... and funnily enough, that doesn't always line up with the kinds of behavior we humans want from our furry companions!
lincoln3x7 t1_j15xnto wrote
My older chihuahua attacked a walker on the sidewalk after bolting though a door. The nice fellow said “I think he bit me, not sure though”
Zebulander t1_j13amc4 wrote
Bull beat and starve a beagle and it’ll attack all the same as any dog.
Maxwyfe t1_j144i86 wrote
But it won't attack with the same force as a pit bull.
DebbieDunnbbar t1_j13b338 wrote
So "irresponsible owner" to you means "actively torturing and trying to turn your dog into a violent killing machine."
Because that's not what most pit bull apologists mean by it.
Zebulander t1_j13bko3 wrote
So you think those dogs attacked because they were denied table scraps or couldn’t use their favorite toy? Maybe you should have a spoiled dog.
DebbieDunnbbar t1_j13ld9h wrote
No, those dogs attacked because the breed has a crazy prey drive and it saw a bunch of little two-legged snacks. Something Beagles and lots of other breeds typically don’t do.
It’s the breed.
Cloud_Disconnected t1_j12f6c3 wrote
> District leaders say 21 people were injured during the dog attack, 18 of them students. The district says six of the victims needed emergency care.
> “I heard someone scream as they fell to the ground, and their jacket was being thrown off by a dog,” said Jared Garza, a fifth-grader on the playground. “Another one of my friends came up and kicked the dogs away, and then other people started getting attacked too.”
That's awful and terrifying.
Extension_Ad175 t1_j14z2vh wrote
My son was one of the kids attacked. From what he said it was pure chaos. The dogs came from out of nowhere and just started attacking.
Cloud_Disconnected t1_j150vws wrote
I'm sorry to hear that, I hope he's ok.
Extension_Ad175 t1_j152f7c wrote
He is doing ok. Just sore and learning to use crutches.
mistole528 t1_j27lvpm wrote
Do you know if the owners have insurance? I saw one of the teachers set up a GoFundMe, which makes me think they probably didn’t have insurance.
tdawg-1551 t1_j13bksq wrote
Really pisses me off that a parent quoted in the story is blaming the school for not having a fence, calling it negligent. GTFO with that crap.
7395715673 t1_j14p8sr wrote
I was thinking the same. What would that parent have said if there was already an ordinary chain link fence installed... because an athletic dog like that has never been known to jump one of those before. "Negligent... They should have had a prison wall put up with guard towers."
Dear_Significance_80 t1_j13wbxs wrote
But dogs can't jump fences, everyone knows that. /s
intoxicatedpuma t1_j14yjfc wrote
Ah yes, let’s also build a fence around the school bus stop, and all along the sidewalk that the kid walks to get home. Or maybe the dogs only attack playgrounds and would never attack a kid walking alone on a sidewalk?
sydni1210 t1_j16keza wrote
Parents love to shit on public schools.
mistole528 t1_j27mdq3 wrote
There should be a fence for many reasons. Dogs, human predators, to keep kids securely in the playground. Our schools have many special needs kiddos and not enough staff to properly watch them. A lot of these kids can take off running with no notice. That playground borders a fairly busy street which is just asking for trouble.
The owners of the dogs have the majority of the fault, but there’s no reason, other than negligence, for the school to not have a fence around the playground.
tdawg-1551 t1_j29s9rb wrote
What if the dogs had attacked in front of the school when kids were waiting in the bus line? Should there be a fence and a gate at the driveway to keep everything out? Better yet, let's build all schools with a moat and drawbridge. One way in, one way out. 10 foot concrete walls with armed guards posted at each corner so nothing gets in.
GundleFly t1_j12o6d9 wrote
my pibble would never!
ErisEpicene t1_j12ygfr wrote
This city seems to have an insane dangerous dog problem.
ProgressMom68 t1_j147r7g wrote
The shelters are packed with pits and pit mixes. I think part of the problem is people adopting these dogs and not having any sense of how to judge a dog’s temperament. I’ve known pits with high prey drives and I’ve known pits who never get off the couch. People want to make broad assumptions about the breed, but temperament varies within the breed, as with all breeds.
But people are absolutely correct that because these dogs are so strong, that the consequences of them having an aggressive temperament are huge. I think what people mean by “irresponsible owners” is owners who don’t train their dogs, exercise them, keep them secure, etc. Although part of the problem is that pits aren’t very smart and they’re not super easy to train beyond the basics.
I don’t know what the answer is. It’s tragic how many of these dogs get surrendered/dumped because people don’t know how to handle them. But we can’t have them running around attacking people either.
the_honeyman t1_j14vdao wrote
>I don't know what the answer is
Banning pit bulls. Full stop.
I don't give a single shit how cuddly your "nanny" dog is. The breed has ALWAYS been bred for violence. It's innate.
Edit: keep 'em coming, PiBbLe owners who can't cope with the fact your dog breed of choice is an inherently unstable time bomb waiting to happen.
ProgressMom68 t1_j14znny wrote
That is such a nuanced, intelligent answer. Thanks. 🙄
the_honeyman t1_j150nlb wrote
Where is your solution? At least mine would begin to address the issue.
Edit: also, there is no nuance when it comes to a breed with a massive prey drive and a brain the size of a golfball, that has been bred since the very beginning for fighting.
poth3lps t1_j151l7y wrote
An attempt to address the issue:
Start placing the punishment onto the owners as if they had committed this crime against kids themselves. It'd quickly become a harsh, sharp reality check on what happens when you don't watch your dogs or train them. We are responsible as adults for who and what we choose to live alongside. If you buy a pet and they're essentially a stranger to you, don't turn them fucking loose until they aren't a stranger to you. Get to know your dogs, and train them. It's insane to me how many people have dogs that will literally wreck the fucking house at the sound of a doorbell. This is not okay behavior. Most of the time, it's almost pathetic, too. People who let animals walk all over them are sad, sad people and need to get a fucking reality check. This "la la fun fun doggy play time" mentality needs to fucking stop if we're not even gonna sprinkle the teensiest bit of sensibility into the mix. I've already been bitten four times because of liars. It needs to stop.
edit: When I delivered for fedex, some of these bastard customers KNEW their dogs were violent and would straight-up lie. That is literally shirking your responsibilities . Literally. And it's fucking reprehensible.
the_honeyman t1_j152e1b wrote
You're not wrong, and that's all well and good, as far as reactionary punitive measures after the attack go.
Does nothing to help the kid who had to get mauled before the dog owner gets punished though. Feels like this is an issue where prevention>>>reaction.
Realistic-Sun3480 OP t1_j1634la wrote
I agree. This is why BSL is absolutely necessary and needs to be well written and enforced properly in combination with other legislation.
Pit bulls (no matter what name anyone calls them) are bred to give little to no warning that they will attack because they were bred for dogfighting and other bloodsport. It's an advantage in the ring, or pit ( that's where half of the names "pit bull" and "pit dog" came from, they fight in the pit).
The damage they do when they snap is often...bad. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
They weren't bred to be pets or service dogs, or good working dogs of any kind. I can't see any good reason for anyone to want to intentionally obtain a dog of this breed type or a mix containing a high enough content of said breed type. Some people, though, are misled or tricked into adopting or buying them and that really needs to stop.
Edit: I also want to say that the excessive breeding of fighting breeds is incredibly inhumane for the dogs themselves. They often don't have people to take them in who are fit to take on that type of dog and it's Hell for them when they are basically warehoused in shelters and rescues. It's no surprise that these facilities are often full of them when there's nothing to stop people from breeding them like this. There are some examples of this mentioned in subs like r/petrescueexposed, for anyone curious to see what I'm talking about.
[deleted] t1_j163dh7 wrote
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poth3lps t1_j1548p8 wrote
There is no do all fix all. It's a solution in response to an issue, yes. The response is, if you ruin someone else's life, be it on purpose or otherwise, it's going to ruin yours. It means "if you don't train your dog, there are major consequences." This isn't gonna be able to be handled by just speaking to one another. Action will need to be taken. People need to be punished. When there is a major consequence to certain things, people tend to work around those things to avoid the consequences. In this particular case, intentionally finding workarounds to having a properly trained dog is commonplace. Thankfully, dogs make it known very quickly without any owner intervention if they are well trained or not. Anyone who has been around 100+ dogs a day knows that, too. (This is not to suggest you don't know that information) If a dog is well-trained, no one bats an eye, if you hear insane amounts of barking and notice your neighbors dog is essentially trying to shatter their living room window to get to some kids playing? THATS FUCKING DANGEROUS MY GUY
I'm not saying I know all the answers or even that you were asking for any from me. I'm just saying that holding people accountable after the fact is a start.
the_honeyman t1_j156ttg wrote
Again, you're not wrong.
It's just that punishment after the fact doesn't stop attacks from happening in the first place, which is really what we should be after.
ProgressMom68 t1_j154rlx wrote
You realize that tens of thousands of dogs would need to be destroyed? A large majority of which would never harm anyone? Breed is not destiny. For any dog breed. Temperament varies. If you claim every dog of a certain breed is going to act 100% predictable to that breed’s traits, you don’t know shit about dogs.
I feel like the solution is the same as it should be for gun owners. Make people who own potentially problematic breeds carry liability insurance. Give generous discounts for things like fencing, training classes, etc. Have a zero-tolerance policy for biting/attacks. Your dog does that, it gets put down. Like guns, the dogs are not the issue, the owners are. I absolutely guarantee you the dogs involved in this incident gave clear warning signs they were aggressive and it went unaddressed. Shit like this doesn’t happen in a vacuum.
Realistic-Sun3480 OP t1_j15luot wrote
I really think that bloodsport breeds, such as pitbulls, need to be phased out. They have no business or use in being pets or any kind of working dog for any purpose and that breed type itself is more dangerous in it's own ways that most other breeds are not.
Along with common sense pet ownership and breeding laws, there needs to be strict laws enforced against breeding them and new pits need to be banned. Banning does not equal automatically euthanizing. If a ban is enacted and enforced like it should be, in several years, all of the pits that were grandfathered in and stayed within city limits would have lived out the rest their lives.
This breed has been bred for fighting for hundreds of years and you can't train gameness, prey drive and aggression out of them. These dogs don't just bite and release when they attack, they maul. The victim(s) very often in these cases will end up sustaining severe or horrific injuries that leave them hospitalized, disfigured, disabled, scarred, nerve damaged, and in many cases dead.
This year alone has seen so many reported pit bull attacks resulting in human fatalities and life changing injuries and way more needs to be done to prevent this. With these, it's not just owners, it's the breed as well.
the_honeyman t1_j156g8b wrote
The breed has, from the 1800s, has been bread for fighting, because their temperament, as a whole, is conducive to shutting down everything but the attack instinct.
This is a breed that was bred for bear fighting, then continued having violent tendencies selected for as people transitioned into dog fighting. If you don't understand that, maybe look more into how selective breeding works.
Also, nowhere did I say "destroy all pit bulls," so you can stop putting words in my mouth. The intent was "ban people from obtaining new pit bulls." Extra insurance and punitive measures for the owner don't do a single thing to prevent kids from getting their faces chewed off by an aggressive breed.
ProgressMom68 t1_j157k64 wrote
You’re advocating for a full on ban. Where do you suggest these dogs you don’t want people to own go? Again, you’re arguing that breed is destiny. It isn’t. You’re also showing you don’t know anything about dogs or dog fighting. Yes, pits are used in dog fighting but they’re far from the only breed.
A ban just isn’t a pragmatic solution. This is particularly true in Missouri where we can’t even seem to regulate puppy mills. BSL really doesn’t work, anyway.
the_honeyman t1_j159dib wrote
You're showing you have no interest in being objective about how the breed has been selected for hundreds of years, or even how selective breeding works. Yes, there are other breeds used for fighting. Pit bulls are and have always been the premier fighting breed for a reason.
Yes, if they wound up in pounds, they'd be euthanized. Better that than more playground attacks and kids missing faces.
ProgressMom68 t1_j15h3r8 wrote
You’ve shown that you know zilch about dogs and have an axe to grind about this particular breed. Bye.
KrazolS t1_j174ijn wrote
Yeah, let’s regulate dogs n guns the same. Good idea…….wow.
shahitee t1_j12oxlx wrote
cant help but wonder how things are on the owners part, imagine if it was because one of them was being irresponsible, man would hate to have that on my shoulders
BlueCoatYellowBoots t1_j13w3k1 wrote
Garbage dogs for garbage people.
[deleted] t1_j15hn6q wrote
There are certain breeds that have higher tendencies to be aggressive. I don’t think that all pit bulls are bad but they do have a history of being aggressive. I have been attacked by a chow, a german shepherd, and a shar pei. These breeds just have a higher chance of being aggressive. That’s what they were bred for. There are lots of other breeds that don’t have those characteristics so why not look for a lab or something that doesn’t have those problems? It’s the pet owners that are responsible and they should be the ones getting sued or worse, for making those choices. If you want a dog that has aggressive tendencies you need to be ready for the worse case scenario. I find a pit bull on my property there won’t be a call to the police.
charitykase32 t1_j15ihc1 wrote
I'm surprised it took this long for something like this to happen. General consensus for dog owners outside city limits is to let their dogs roam free without regard to anyone else. Also doesn't help that the area usually has dogs dumped too.
BlueCoatYellowBoots t1_j15luzt wrote
> Also doesn't help that the area usually has dogs dumped too.
And this is precisely the reason I don't let my dogs roam free and I walk my dogs on leash on my own property. I live in the county and 2021 was a terrible year for dumbshits dumping pibbles outside city limits. Maybe they think we're going to take them in? We shoot them when they inevitably harass livestock, so many dead dogs in 2021.
charitykase32 t1_j15n24z wrote
We actually started carrying dog spray when we walk our dog after having a neighbor's dog terrorize my family one evening. After confronting the neighbor about their dog, they had beef with me cursing at their children. Yea, I'm going to start saying "get your fucking dog" to a kid after I asked multiple times prior while I'm pushing a stroller. Thankfully haven't had to use the spray, but we carry it for every walk.
KrazolS t1_j175sxb wrote
Conceal carry to protect yourself and your family. If you have an issue with that dog again I’d bet it’s the last time.
[deleted] t1_j15uqd8 wrote
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miss_stoner t1_j14p1kt wrote
My pitbull is very well behaved and the sweetest dog on my block. She loves humans and always wants a belly rub. With proper training and care, these dogs are just like any other. Sick of people claiming its just the breed. Rather, the owners don’t understand how to care for their animal. Wonder what kind of lives these pits lived. Hope all the children are okay :((
the_honeyman t1_j14vruy wrote
Sick of people ignoring the literal entire history of the breed to claim "mY PiBbLe iS a NaNnY dOg."
They were literally bred for bear hunting. Violence and prey drive are inherent to the breed, which makes a particularly volatile combination with the intelligence of a toothbrush.
Myfreezerisfull t1_j16lglg wrote
They’re too violent for hunting anything besides feral pigs; look up “hog-dogging.” They were bred fro bear-baiting and bull-baiting and other pit fights (hence the “pit” and “bull”). These were despicably gory events. When the pit-baiting entertainment fell out of fancy in Europe and North America, dog-fighting became the hustle for the beer-shwilling after hours ruffians. The pit breeds were further refined for effective killing. It really blows my mind that they could ever be marketed as family pets when their entire pedigree is built on blood lust.
the_honeyman t1_j16qby8 wrote
Meanwhile I'm getting blocked and told I must not understand anything about dogs because I brought this up.
Selective breeding over hundreds of years could only produce one outcome.
Myfreezerisfull t1_j16u7m3 wrote
I understand very well. I’ve been downvoted to the ninth inferno for stating as much. Breeding is absolutely important in a dog’s temperament and behavior. My labs retrieve and live for a splash in the lake (especially after a downed duck). My Bernese mountain dog wants to be at my feet at all times and loves to be a goofy, playful companion. Hundreds of years of selective breeding produces outcomes
joydivision84 t1_j165adz wrote
There is absolutely cool and chill pitbulls, but if you believe in science, the concept on instinct and that dog breeds have traits, then there is absolute no breed of dog with the statistical highs of dog attacks and deaths in the United States. You can do all the research in the world and this fact will come back time and time, like it or not I'm afraid. From academic research to police reports.
https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/dog-attack-statistics-by-breed/
Much like Collies often try and herd people by instinct (even if they've never been in a field before), or that terriers are more 'yappy', and Chihuahuas like to go under covers and use there arms to get attention, pit bulls like any other dogs are led by instincts.
Instincts are reinforced by breeding and the tasks given to them by humans, pit bulls have often been bred to fight, protect and guard, thus they are naturally more aggressive dogs, PLUS the high provocation from some owners lead to them being by far the most dangerous breed in the US. But to say they are only aggressive due to owners I'm afraid is just incorrect, it may not be 'their fault', but breeding and instincts have led them to have a higher rate of aggression than any other breed.
There is also the fact that if an aggressive Chihuahua attacks you, you will almost certainly live, a fully grown pitbull, well, sadly we know how catastrophic that can be.
Once again, this is no attack on your dog, just don't feel like you need to defend the entire breed because your pub is awesome.
Dbol504 t1_j15kfmn wrote
There are no bad dogs, only bad owners
growth-or-happiness t1_j13vna3 wrote
Cool story. I used to live in Willard. Dogs were always a weird problem. I had a pug and he was built. I mean like bulldog wide. Got him for free at Casey’s when it was raining. He hopped in the car and then he was mine. Super cool dog with his woo woos. Kept him in a fenced yard. Home insurance people decided to do a “check”. It was my shitbird neighbor though. She said “Is he dangerous?” Huh? Look at him. He is blind now and just wanders around the yard and barks at what he might hear, as he is going deaf too. Later after that, we had neighbors with boxers, and I love boxers. We had a litter of kittens and the neighbors dog jumped the fence to get to the kittens. I was letting them play and do kitten things. I ended up whooping the shit out the dog with a tball bat. Fucking assholes.
Professional_Move212 t1_j15lhkn wrote
Don't blame the breed of dog. There are several other breeds actually proven to be more dangerous... The blame should be the way they are raised,cared for and loved. Had owned and raised several for over 25 years. Never and I mean never had any trouble. Really hate to hear about anyone getting hurt.
joydivision84 t1_j164t2g wrote
There is absolute no breed of dog with the statistical highs of dog attacks and deaths in the United States. You can do all the research in the world and this fact will come back time and time, like it or not I'm afraid. From academic research to police reports.
https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/dog-attack-statistics-by-breed/
Much like Collies often try and herd people by instinct (even if they've never been in a field before), or that terriers are more 'yappy', and Chihuahuas like to go under covers and use there arms to get attention, pit bulls like any other dogs are led by instincts.
Instincts are reinforced by breeding and the tasks given to them by humans, pit bulls have often been bred to fight, protect and guard, thus they are naturally more aggressive dogs, PLUS the high provocation from some owners lead to them being by far the most dangerous breed in the US. But to say they are only aggressive due to owners I'm afraid is just incorrect, it may not be 'their fault', but breeding and instincts have led them to have a higher rate of aggression than any other breed.
Environmental_Big802 t1_j1b32g9 wrote
My god, do you know how to read? Every single source imaginable will tell you that pitbulls are vastly more responsible for deaths and mauling than any other breed. So how would that not make them the most dangerous?
cyclopath t1_j12gtg7 wrote
Because I know you were wondering:
> Animal control identified the dogs as two pit bulls and euthanized them after the owners voluntarily handed them over.