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Cloud_Disconnected t1_j2ty1rd wrote

Reply to comment by MacAttack2015 in Apparently Springfield is in the top 30 "loneliest" cities in America by Xefjord

I'm not following how travel time in a car by yourself is lonelier than traveling on a bike by yourself, or walking by yourself. Are you stopping to talk to someone every few hundred feet when you're riding/walking? If you have ever been to a city you know that even in walkable areas, people aren't stopping to chat.

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drewboto t1_j2uc6nq wrote

Right?! I'm all for better bike lanes, pedestrian pathways and better public transit but let's not act like we're all gonna find that extra date per year by cycling and walking. Also, I would assume bus stops and busses would be more like airports where people put in AirPods and keep to themselves. Anecdotally, I see drivers having social hour all the time with calls, messages and FaceTime anyway.

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Television_Wise t1_j2uvqtl wrote

>Also, I would assume bus stops and busses would be more like airports where people put in AirPods and keep to themselves.

I've had some nice conversations with people at bus stops and on the bus, and even made longer-term friends that way.

A lot of people aren't in the mood to chat, but it's not unusual to talk with people.

Keep in mind too, that Springfield's permanent bus riders are a small amount of people. You will see some of the same people for years and that makes it easier to get to know them. I doubt that's true for air travel since few people fly every day but lots of bus people take the bus for a regular commute and the rest of their travel needs.

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MacAttack2015 t1_j2updz6 wrote

I should have been way more clear in my initial comment because my wording made it sound as though I think commutes would be more social without cars, and having lived in Chicago I can say that while my commutes were more social than they are now, it wasn’t so drastic as to feel negative about it. My actual opinion is more in regards to the way cities develop and age when built nearly strictly with the automobile in mind, which is the reality for basically all cities in the Midwest. “Aging in place” is one concept you should definitely Google, it’s very interesting and very relevant to modern day America, as it’s something most of us will not be able to do.

We are social animals first and foremost. Despite the personal freedom automobiles were created to provide, their impacts on cities (in terms of infrastructure, environment, economics, sociology as well) are well-studied and documented, and largely indicate that when our built environment is built for cars, not people, it begins to detrimentally impact the urban fabric of the city (style and scale of buildings, style and scale of public right-of-way, proximity of necessities, area and location of open space, the list goes on). But you can’t pull a thread from that fabric without impacting the integrity of it as a whole. When a trip to the grocery store requires a car, that immediately puts a strain on some people - those who are perhaps too old to drive a car, or those who can’t afford a car, or those who aren’t old enough to drive yet, etc. etc. etc. Auto-centric development really does impact our lives in ways we tend to not see because we are just so accustomed to our cities being that way, but there are better ways to design our urban areas, ways that could really improve our lives financially, socially, and environmentally.

This is not to say that cars have no place in a city, that’s hardly realistic, but there are many, many good reasons cities should begin to truly pursue alternative forms of transportation.

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Cloud_Disconnected t1_j2va2py wrote

Well, you've tried to pull a sneaky there though. You're not clarifying your first point at all, you're pivoting to a different one. You've gone from "cars are inherently isolating" to "the structure of cities built with cars in mind is isolating." Your second point is more relevant to the thread, and there's some merit to it.

On the other hand, it seems like the ideal I see put forth of "walkable neighborhoods" and "mixed-use spaces" is predicated on everyone working in a coffee shop, a grocery store, or a nice office.

That's fine, but if I'm a mechanic I don't necessarily want to live next to the diesel shop, or a warehouse worker next to a fullfillment center, and if I work in waste management...well, you get the point. Factory workers used to live in dormitories at their worksite, and no one wants to go back to that, I assume.

So, yes, urban planning and infrastructure, including mass transit, is welcome and warrented, but it's never going to be as practicable or widespread as proponents want it to be. And it's not going to cure all of society's ills, including loneliness.

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MacAttack2015 t1_j2znnq9 wrote

I would argue that centers of employment located further from residential areas due to the use (manufacturing, etc.) should still be accessible by public transit and active transportation infrastructure. The issue with cities like Springfield is that the entire city is built to serve people who own personal vehicles. Public transit or other forms of transportation are an afterthought, if thought about at all (especially in the past when the city was growing the most).

Requiring a personal vehicle is a continuous economic strain, particularly so for folks who already struggle financially. Financial struggles can mean working more hours, leading to less personal, family, or friend time, which can impact your mental health, which can impact your physical health, etc. Everything about our lives is connected in some way - our relationship with our built environment is no different.

And don’t get me wrong - a zero-car future is not possible, and reducing car use isn’t a silver bullet in the fight against loneliness and disconnection. But there are a lot of logical arguments to be made in favor of different development patterns and alternative forms of transportation that could truly improve the lives of people in Springfield in tangible ways. And I do think the deterioration of our sense of community would lessen and even reverse if those options were explored, and implemented, with enthusiasm - not just toss away projects on a micro scale.

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