the_honeyman t1_j3sajt1 wrote
I couldn't care less about this project, but where is development acceptable to you all? Only on the fringes of town, pushing urban sprawl even further? I don't remember the last proposal that was posted here favorably, even mixed-use projects this demographic claims to adore.
dailycitizen t1_j3sepq9 wrote
Typically I'm pretty anti-NIMBY, but development for the sake of development is also un-wise.
Outside of the tax revenue and a handful of jobs, what benefits will a coffee shop in this specific location provide that will offset the large number of negatives that it will bring?
the_honeyman t1_j3sfl1n wrote
I'm not even particularly in favor of this project, but it feels like literally every proposal put forth is met with heaps of criticisms from this sub, from the Grant Ave parkway stuff to the unused space in Galloway to the National and Sunshine lots that aren't suitable in the slightest for housing anymore.
With the economic system we live in (which I'm not in favor of either, in the least) if a city isn't growing, it's dying. At the very least, I know I don't want to live in a dying city. But if all development stops, like it seems some here would prefer, that's where we'll be headed.
Edit: also, what negatives are you talking about? Increased congestion is about the only one I can think of, and even then Sunshine and Campbell is only really bad around 8am and 5 pm. The majority of the rest of the day it's fine.
Snekathan t1_j3sii3z wrote
I actively avoid sunshine at all hours of the day save for nighttime, I guess if you’re used to the congestion it may not be terrible but coming from other sides of town it’s a shitshow
Between chik-fil-a, Starbucks, canes, bass pro, parkview high school down the road, and all the other businesses? There’s no argument you could make in favor of putting more in this area outside of “I want coffee” that would make any sense. There’s plenty of other spots in town that would be able to better handle the extra traffic than an already-congested area
the_honeyman t1_j3sizd7 wrote
Again, I'm not arguing in favor of this project. It just doesn't matter where or what the project is. Just look at the Grant Avenue proposal backlash.
SliceOfBrain OP t1_j3sn7hm wrote
I'm all for mixed-use development. In fact, I think the spot is great for a coffee shop. The issue for me, as well as the zoning commissioners and the majority of the surrounding neighborhood, is the drive-thru. Specifically, it's a very large drive-thru. We have already seen chic fil a's drive-thru cause congestion and accidents just down the road. The lot's size and location (across from an elementary school) just can't accommodate it. That's why it had a zoning restriction on it to begin with. A coffee shop or any other business without a drive-thru could have used the land without having to push it through countless zoning and council meetings. In the current case, the shop won't benefit and integrate with the actual community that will live around it. It's important to think about development in terms of placemaking. In other words, are we developing places we want to spend time in? Or are we developing disparate, quick destinations that you simply drive to and leave (drive-thru). That said, I understand that we don't attract a lot of fitting projects, so it feels like we are too picky and should settle for anything that feels like it could benefit the local economy even a little. However, these choices tend to haunt us when they become trends. And once the quick spurt it has on the economy tires out, the city still has to keep up with the surrounding infrastructure... and what are we left with? A chain drive-thru that employs a handful of people and makes it even harder for parents to walk their children to school?
the_honeyman t1_j3soix6 wrote
Hey look! A thoughtful, comprehensive response!
Again, I'm not trying to argue for this particular project. But when the same reasons get trotted out for the opposition to every single development project, often immediately after mourning the lack of mixed-use development, it gets old.
Not saying you did that here, it's just the majority of the arguments I see.
SliceOfBrain OP t1_j3ul41t wrote
Of course. I understand. It's really hard to articulate that I'm not a NIMBY while being super selective about local development.
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