Submitted by PettyPoet t3_10g93du in springfieldMO
As I sit here at Chestnut “expressway” near downtown wondering why I’m getting caught at every light instead of being able to utilize then non existent freeway that should run directly through the city like most cities this size for easier commute. I can’t help but wonder if the developers of this city actually gave af about the growth in this community. This town really is backwards in my arrogant opinion.
Yes--sort of.
When I first moved here, I found it pretty annoying that it was so difficult to get around town and that it was especially time-consuming to get downtown if you didn't live very close to downtown. Downtown also seemed a relatively empty shell that wasn't living up to its potential in part because it's so hard to access from the areas most people live. The big traffic-clogged arterials lined with endless soulless strip malls seemed worse here than anywhere else I'd lived.
In part because of the poor infrastructure here, I got interested in urban planning and have spent quite a bit of time learning about and analyzing the development of car-centric cities (like ones common in the US) and pedestrian-centric cities (like ones common in most of the rest of the world).
Springfield misses the mark on both, though. It's an incredibly car-dependent city, but the lack of access to the core of the city by car keeps downtown from thriving. At the same time, it's far too car-dependent and spread out to allow downtown to thrive organically from people who live nearby and would patronize businesses there. As well, while the region is starting to put in a little bit of bike-friendly infrastructure, the few disconnected bike trails and the existence of the Link really don't do much to promote cycling as a feasible way to get around our spread-out city.
Although I personally think that Springfield would do well to remove restrictions that currently prevent the market from filling the demand for building walkable neighborhoods (e.g. allowing denser "missing middle" housing and intermixing commercial and residential [both currently against zoning laws], removing current ordinances that require setbacks and parking minimums [which make it illegal for developers to build homes or businesses close enough together to allow people to feasibly choose to live car-free], etc.) and allowing vibrant, lively communities that don't require driving everywhere, if Springfield is going to embrace car-dependency instead, the current infrastructure really doesn't fill those needs, either.
Agreed on all points. There are quite a few people in Springfield working to bring about all of that stuff, and I hope it happens eventually. I know they recently allowed for parking minimums to be waived if there is a lot of on street parking available, which basically just helps downtown and Commercial Street, but I hope the idea takes off.
I feel like the last thing we need is 5-7 more years of constant road construction. Not to mention the people and businesses that would need to be displaced in order to build a freeway.
Bring back street cars, extend the zone of people-friendly streets and neighborhoods indefinitely. It generates more revenue and people are happier. Go to Amsterdam and marvel at what it’s like to be a generation in the future.
Right. Where exactly should this freeway go? How should this massive project be funded - given the general distaste for taxes around here? Any particular neighborhood you’d like to displace? Maybe we should just ADD MORE LANES TO EVERYTHING. /s
Such a limited response to think anything will be solved with more places for cars. If you really hated this (minor) inconvenience so much, you probably would have found a home closer to work, a work closer to home, or entirely peaced out from SGF? Or, as others have recommended, maybe just leave like 10 mins earlier? You need podcast recommendations?
The term expressway in Missouri parlance is exactly what both Chestnut and Kansas are. Missouri expressways. Full access control is called a freeway. John Q. was instrumental in directing I-44 to the north side instead of through town, where Chestnut is now, in the 1950s. Good or bad it was debated then. And freeways through the hearts of cities decimate neighborhoods, usually poor and lacking political power.
My work commute has me on Kansas Expressway and Chestnut Expressway 5 times a week and I agree. I've also called them "Expressways" multiple times. It's a pain if you hit the lights, especially at the start of downtown. I don't think a freeway through the city would help that much, though, and I'm having trouble picturing what it would even look like. Probably similar to Tulsa, where one stall or wreck shuts everything down, just like what we have now. Maybe if the bus system was better and more people used it instead of their cars, that might relieve it somewhat.
As pithy as it sounds, planning ahead really is key. If I can get on the road before 7:30 am, my commute usually takes less than 15 minutes. By 7:40, it usually takes 20-25 minutes and I end up right on time or late.
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This! This system isn't designed for optimal traffic flow. It's the complete opposite of optimal.
Aren’t lights usually timed to a safe speed for the stretch of road? I’ve definitely driven from chestnut to republic rd on Glenstone and hit every damn light. I’m not an aggro driver, though…
Springfield was not laid out with that in mind. It was not laid out with the idea of large traffic flow in and out of the city center ever being needed, but rather used bypasses to get heavy traffic around and past town.
Now is that a good idea? In hindsight probably not. At the time those choices were made? I mean who knows. A city's road layout is a cumulation of countless choices by a LOT of different planners and interests over generations.
But the real question is, if we all agree it's a problem, and will likely only become more of a problem as the population grows, then we have to ask....what do we do about it?
The only think you really can do is imminent domain probably tens of millions of dollars worth of property in the areas you'd need to put a new major thoroughfare in, get the budget to build such a thing in addition to those imminent domain costs, and then have the city deal with the extra congestion during the like 4-8 years it would take for such a project to be completed.
Maybe that is what needs to happen, take national and chestnut and expand them into major thoroughfares with offramps instead of lights. Sure, sounds great probably, but it would obviously be an immensely costly and painful process.
And of course no matter how good of an idea it may be, you'd have hundreds of people in the community, and on threads just like this one, talking about how the city doesn't' care about people and this is a terrible idea and they are destroying historic neighborhoods and they should all lose their jobs so on so forth. I mean we can hardly put in a beaver themed gas station in a spot no one lives at without pissing off half the town.
City Planning wasn’t really a thing in Springfield until the 50s
I tried getting ahold of the city about a problem with the timing of one of the lights on Chestnut and found out that all of the lights on chestnut are controlled by MODOT. They were surprisingly responsive to my complaint unfortunately it ultimately didn't matter and people are still having to run the light because it's like it gets stuck and never changes for left turning traffic.
we have highways and freeways literally around the city, it wouldn't really be worth the construction to build a freeway through town
Put away your phone. You’re driving!
You think this is bad? I remember getting stuck by the train every friggin’ morning before they built the overpass. Turned a 25 minute commute into and hour or more.
I’ve been saying that for 20 years. In its earlier phase Springfield did an amazing job with it’s master plan, but then totally dropped the ball. I said 20 years ago they need to start on the freeway because it takes that long to build, and we were growing at an expansive rate.
15 years ago they said Christian and Greene county would triple in size and that the towns would grow together. That literally happened. So why the hell didn’t they plan for the traffic. 20 years ago there was no need for a freeway - traffic was non existent. They knew the growth was coming.
Old joke - Kansas Expressway isn’t in Kansas and it’s certainly not an expressway
From the MoDot website: "expressway - a multi-lane, typically four or more, highway with limited controlled access; access points may consist of intersections or interchanges"
I hear expressway I think of expressways I've seen in other states where there are limited red lights and smaller side roads that allow accesses to businesses. Or something more akin to Southwest Trafficway in KC that has very few redlights and is 3 lanes for a right turn lane / extra driving lane.
You shouldn’t post on Reddit while driving. Here is a good article on the history of highways gutting disadvantaged neighborhoods and cities in general. You’ve got a pretty hot take, á la 1965.
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2015/5/14/8605917/highways-interstate-cities-history
Municipalities across North America are trying to figure out how to remove the highways that run through their urban cores. It would be totally on-brand for Springfield to adopt a failed city planning strategy.
I can't find a source right now, and very well could be mistaken so if someone can confirm or deny this it would be great, but:
When I first moved here I am positive I read that this is intentional, that they staggered the light timing to make it more likely that cars will have to come to a complete stop every few blocks to reduce overall speed and accidents.
Yeah that's a thing with Springfield. Expressways aren't, and the bypasses don't. Good thing though is that a speed limit of 40 means don't go too much over 55.
Plan accordingly.
Elaborate
Leave earlier Plan for a "long" commute with audio books, podcasts, music, ect Take backroads. May not be quicker but you won't have to stop as much
No need to be an ass when there are plenty of options, we all have to sit through the same traffic. Would probably get better if residents drove safer/better and didn't acts like crackhead If it upsets you that much go to town meetings, write to town hall get involved with city planning and local politics.
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No, thanks.
ybanalyst t1_j51eigm wrote
I've always loved that Springfield doesn't have a freeway through the middle of the city. Those are for getting you between cities, not for commuting. A freeway would be even more of a barrier than Chestnut Expy already is. For once, Springfield got something very right.