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saanity t1_j8v0t1c wrote

Reply to comment by psychothumbs in Tesla Workers Announced a Union Drive. The Next Day They Were Fired. by psychothumbs

Gotta love that the American government is owned by corporations. Between that and Citizens United, what is the point of government? We are just taken advantage of slowly becoming slaves.

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Bringbackdexter t1_j8vbzt1 wrote

What’s concerning is no one is thinking about where this leads. A dystopia where the rich rule with an iron fist and their word is law.

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Socky_McPuppet t1_j8wboqb wrote

> What’s concerning is no one is thinking about where this leads.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Conservatives have not only thought about where this leads - they're the ones leading the charge.

> A dystopia where the rich rule with an iron fist and their word is law.

Yes - and they're fucking salivating.

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HoneydewInMyAss t1_j8wenmj wrote

I'm a progressive, but this is a much worse situation than just the Republicans.

The democrats held both houses of congress for 2 years, during an unprecedented era of unionization, and they didn't do shit to help then....

People were unionizing at some of the largest corporations on earth (Amazon, Starbucks, etc.) And our "liberal" party just sat there.

Where was Biden, Harris, Pelosi, etc. When they were unionizing the Amazon factory in NYC?

Why didn't they pass ANY legislation to help them? They didn't even make a fucking speech!

Then, the Biden administration spit in the faces of those railworkers, and wouldn't even give then a measly 7 days of sick leave.

We have 2 conservative, anti-worker parties in our 2-party system.

I wish it was just one party, but working class Americans literally have to overcome both parties in our political systems and i don't even know how to go about that.

Corporations have us check-mated.

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BarrySix t1_j8wi12f wrote

This is exactly how US politics looks from outside the US. You have a right wing party acting in the interests of the rich and a more right wing party acting in the interests of the rich and being a bit more militant about it. The far right party are always screaming at the right-wing party for being left-wing extremists.

Plus the whole "woke" thing which serves as little more than a distraction from the fact that the entire political system is biased towards the new lords and masters.

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regalrecaller t1_j8x0phj wrote

What people don't understand is that this is simply the neoliberal economic theory as adopted by both major political parties.

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HoneydewInMyAss t1_j8xd4jr wrote

This is exactly why Noam Chomsky spent his entire career attacking "liberal" parties in the US and Europe.

Conservative parties are allowed to entertain the entire spectrum of the right from moderate to far right ethnonationalists

While the liberal parties act as a limit for how left you can venture.

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BILLCLINTONMASK t1_j8wgg0j wrote

Republicans are a man running at you with a knife saying "I'm going to stab you." Democrats are a man saying "I'm your friend" before stabbing you in the back.

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MonitorPowerful5461 t1_j8wh74j wrote

No, they’re someone saying “I’m your friend” and hesitating to give you the knife.

Biden recently passed legislature increasing funding for the NRLB, the organisation dedicated to prosecuting illegal union-busting. That is not much yet, but it’s important help, definitely not stabbing in the back.

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xabhax t1_j8wkspr wrote

He gave funding to the nrlb, and didn’t give them the power to impose penalties? What good is money if they can’t impose fines?

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MiaowaraShiro t1_j8wvejp wrote

"I don't understand the limitations of the executive branch."

Because he literally can't. It requires legislation.

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HoneydewInMyAss t1_j8xdi3k wrote

...the democratic party held both houses of congress.

They didn't pass worker reform

They didn't pass judicial reform

They didn't pass election reform

They didn't pass weed decriminalization

They didn't end qualified immunity

They didn't end gerrymandering

Seriously, we all went out there and voted the democrats into power in 2020, we gave them both houses of congress, and we got NOTHING.

I just can't believe people are still this naive. You saw it with your own eyes!

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MiaowaraShiro t1_j8xe23u wrote

OK, but we were talking about Biden specifically.

I get your frustration and I feel it too. However you're being imprecise in who you blame.

If you want to blame anyone for lack of legislative progress look at Manchin and Sinema. If you think those two represent the party as a whole you're going to have a hard time with me taking you seriously.

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[deleted] t1_j8xj0ef wrote

[deleted]

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MiaowaraShiro t1_j8xybkf wrote

You're aware that right now, he's the President, right? And right now is what we're talking about?

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[deleted] t1_j8yg54z wrote

[deleted]

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MiaowaraShiro t1_j8yh62v wrote

No, you're putting words in my mouth...

I'm saying that if you want to change the law, appealing to Biden, in the executive branch, isn't going to get you very far.

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ron_fendo t1_j90fsiw wrote

This, i said the same thing during the 2016 election, Trump was a wolf and we all knew it, Clinton was a wolf dressed up like a sheep and only half of us knew it.

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IvorTheEngine t1_j8xhaea wrote

That's the nature of a two party system. You get more votes if you position yourself fairly close to the other party. That way you get a bigger share of the 'middle of the road' voters.

If the democrats were any more left-wing, they'd get fewer votes.

You don't get to vote for someone you like, just the party you dislike least.

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teeny_tina t1_j8wnvx1 wrote

ah yes the both sides are the same argument. you dressed it up more convincingly than the usual suspects do tho so kudos for that.

edit: simplified my comment

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HoneydewInMyAss t1_j8xdy75 wrote

Who said both sides are the same?

You built that strawman, genius.

The democrats are socially liberal, but economic conservatives.

The Republican are socially conservative, and economic conservatives

We don't even have the option for economic liberals

Stay stupid, I don't care. I can't educate you if you won't open your eyes.

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Financial_Pie5350 t1_j8xpzw5 wrote

The reason Democrats don’t do anything about things they claim to care about like crime, working people, or the Dreamers when they’re in power is that they only pretend to care about those things for votes. Successfully, I might add. In reality, they are taking in more in campaign money from large companies than the Republicans are. They are just better liars.

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evolving_I t1_j8vh4zq wrote

Pretty sure I played that Simpsons game on Gameboy back in the 90s

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Saneless t1_j8wlm08 wrote

Worse, the people who will be most affected negatively cheer it on and vote for people who support it

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blibblub t1_j8wr71b wrote

Nobody cares because a ton of people own tesla stock and care about their stock more than what’s good for the country

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callmekizzle t1_j8vkcfq wrote

Some old German guys warned of this like 250 years ago I think they even wrote some books about it. I think they said the rest of working class people should band together and seize the means of production? Or something like that? Maybe it was seize the means of induction? They old and dead now so Idk maybe I’ll look it up later.

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Cyathem t1_j8wgn7c wrote

Oh yea, I think some places ran with that idea. I can't remember the details, but I think things went south pretty quickly. I think a few people died here and there.

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callmekizzle t1_j8wi3ca wrote

Oh yea where? sounds crazy.

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Cyathem t1_j8wm2xk wrote

I can't recall where but I do recall at least a few mustaches. Searching through notable mustaches might turn something up.

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Gommel_Nox t1_j8ye1ua wrote

Oh yeah I think I read that book in high school but it was really short so I don’t remember it

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peepee_longstonking t1_j8vei7y wrote

That is the point of government, to extract wealth from the masses in relative safety using a claimed monopoly on acceptable violence.

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BarrySix t1_j8wii6v wrote

It's "monopoly of violence". "Acceptable" doesn't come into it.

It's literally the thing that defines government.

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caligaris_cabinet t1_j8vrusz wrote

You know, if aliens invade tomorrow I’m just gonna side with them. Can’t be any worse than the people currently running this planet.

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HoneydewInMyAss t1_j8wevyc wrote

Who needs aliens?

Let's just round up all the politicians and oligarchs ourselves?

We outnumber them 10,000-to-1

Lock the doors to every bank on Wallstreet, and burn it down with them inside

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BarrySix t1_j8wibv6 wrote

There was this wonderful phrase in 1984 that went something like "The proles could overthrow the government as easily as a horse shaking off fleas, yet they don't."

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xabhax t1_j8wkzdq wrote

We made this cage we are now trapped in. We put these people in power, we allowed them to constantly go against our best interest. Make no mistake, we have no one to blame but outselves

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BarrySix t1_j8xd3ke wrote

The US electoral system is designed to be two party. That's a problem too.

Washington warned clearly and repeatedly against political parties.

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Gommel_Nox t1_j8ye7es wrote

You’re suggesting we… Take up space on Wall Street? Wait, take up isn’t the right phrase let’s use “occupy.“

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SalaciousCoffee t1_j8vlo96 wrote

The government serves those that pay for it's service.

That's it.

You join government through an election, the election is one of the costs to do business with government.

Folks pool their money and get fractional interest in pokiticians, but they spread it across all of them so they will lean one way or another.

No money? No power.

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peaeyeparker t1_j8w6how wrote

And just the other day Taibbi and Rogan defending Musk against the cancel culture with there is no legitimate argument that Musk is a conservative. Fuckers are bought and paid.

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Cyathem t1_j8wh200 wrote

I love when people express their opinions on something, then when people disagree they assume that the other person is "bought and paid for".

Nevermind that these people are on a first name basis and have personal relationships. This would be like me telling you my friend is left-leaning (based on knowing them), and you telling me they are far-right and I'm "bought and paid for" because you read a blog. That's just a stupid argument to make. You have no idea what you are talking about.

I actually skipped over that podcast, but now I need to listen to it because people keep bitching about it. But that's just par for the course, I guess

Edit: I listened to the podcast. At 2:00:00 they discuss exactly this and make the same point I am making.

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mrGeaRbOx t1_j8wmgld wrote

I'm sure you have a tighty little perfect explanation for why musk was hanging out with Rupert Murdoch at the super bowl too?

Totally innocent! totally out of context! it's all of YOU who are mistaken!!!

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Cyathem t1_j8wmqg3 wrote

Actually, I did recently comment on that reddit post. I'll find what I said, just for special little you.

Edit:

>My first thought was that he is isolated from liberal figureheads because they don't want to be seen with him since he is hot in the media right now, and then he is also extremely wealthy so that is going to mean he ends up in a certain area with a certain VIP status. The only people he could interact with are probably these types. I don't think him and Murdoch go golfing or have late night chats. But who knows.

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mrGeaRbOx t1_j8wn81g wrote

You think there's some sort of large shared skybox between all the billionaires? Like you don't understand that these are individual suites with an entrance and security that you would need to be invited to?

It honestly reads like you think that musk just strolled in there because it was the path of least resistance.

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Cyathem t1_j8wz4fu wrote

Are you under the impression that people with exceptional means are in the same circumstances as the rest of us? Do you honestly believe that these hyperwealthy people are not segregated from the general public? That seems extremely naive.

And again, do you think Musk would enjoy being surrounded by liberal figureheads? Or do you think they might be pretty shitty to hang around with, to keep up appearances? Would you voluntarily go into the room of people who hate you and/or refuse to be seen with you?

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alien_ghost t1_j8y7ahu wrote

If you share a skybox with someone else, it means you share the exact same political beliefs and motives. /s

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peaeyeparker t1_j8wiclo wrote

You accuse me of having “no idea what I am talking about.” And your the one that didn’t even listen to the podcast I mentioned? Union busting is a conservative last time. Wtf fuck are you even talking about? There is no other way to interpret it.

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Cyathem t1_j8wlznd wrote

Implying that the podcast (that doesn't even have Musk in it) is the lynchpin of "understanding Elon Musk" makes you look really disingenuous.

I'm sure we could comb through your political opinions and find conservative opinions. Does that make you a conservative? Or does that just make you an individual with nuanced opinions? How many conservative opinions is a "liberal" allowed to have before they get their membership revoked? Fewer than you? The same as you? That would be convenient.

Edit: oh, would you look at that. I listened to the podcast and at 2:00:00 they start discussing the topic of labelling people as one thing or the other based on one data point. In fact, they basically repeat my argument.

Edit2: typical. Asked a question they don't like their own answer to, so they just leave.

How many conservative opinions is a "liberal" allowed to have before they get their membership revoked by you?

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peaeyeparker t1_j8yofeh wrote

The amount of effort people go through to defend Billionaires is unbelievable. I just can’t understand why you would even try.

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Cyathem t1_j8yq463 wrote

I love the low effort you put into your dismissals. Can't even respond to a single, direct question.

It's as simple as I don't make unnecessary assumptions about people I don't know, especially when it's based on what I read on social media. Some people prefer to take the first thing they read and then run around shouting it at everyone. To each their own, I suppose.

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mrGeaRbOx t1_j8wm2j6 wrote

Didn't Obama try to expand Union power by passing card check Nationwide?

Why don't you delineate between who in the government is doing what you're saying and who is trying the opposite?

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xfactor6972 t1_j8wqisw wrote

What sucks is that makes some good products here in the US but treats it’s workers like shit. In Musk’s eyes and the rest of the billionaires we are just surfs there to make them wealthier. I wanted a Tesla Power Wall for my solar system but I’m not going to give him my money. It’s the only power we have.

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alien_ghost t1_j8y80pc wrote

> but treats it’s workers like shit.

I haven't heard that. I've not seen anything that indicates Tesla is any worse or having any issues that other organizations its size also have.
Car factories are generally pretty good as far as factory work goes. Pay at Tesla is competitive.
I'm sure it's not a worker's paradise but I've seen nothing that indicates Tesla treats its workers like shit.
Amazon? Sure? Meat packing plants? Absolutely. If you have any evidence of Tesla being particularly bad I'd like to see it.

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xfactor6972 t1_j916ilp wrote

Well I have read a few articles , one about how an employee at California car plant was harassed by the management and sued and won. Another about how Tesla took over a ford plant and paid it’s worked considerably less than when they worked for Ford. I sure the reason being is that Ford is unionized and Tesla is not.

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alien_ghost t1_j91mogf wrote

Tesla workers are paid about the same as UAW workers are. Could be a bit less in some cases, could be more in others. Paying someone slightly less is not mistreatment. Is it surprising that companies that have grown fat selling gasoline powered cars with huge subsidies for decades can pay more than a start up?
As far as disagreements between the management and the worker - do you really think Ford and GM have never been sued for mistreatment by any employees? Any company with 100,000+ workers will have instances of management mistreating workers. That's an unavoidable part of organizations run by humans.
Going by that criteria, there aren't many car companies you could buy from from in good conscience. And any idea that the Big 3 in the US are good companies just because they are unionized doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

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Mammoth-Pain-358 t1_j8zv0br wrote

Where's the proof that Amazon treats their workers like shit? I know people who work for Amazon and they have no complaints.

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MiaowaraShiro t1_j8wv6mm wrote

Not corporations. Rich selfish sociopaths... There are people who make these decisions who have names and addresses.

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Shrink21 t1_j8yezfr wrote

That's what happens when people think they only got 2 parties to choose from. BTW: they are more similar than they would want you to think

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