Comments
Decent_Jello_8001 t1_j93x5ml wrote
I would seriously have to question what he plans to do with printed pages of code lmao? Like bro just pull my repo
[deleted] t1_j92seet wrote
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Hrmbee OP t1_j8ybagg wrote
>We worked on ways to improve our toxic-speech-identification algorithms so they would not discriminate against African-American Vernacular English as well as forms of reclaimed speech. All of this depended on rank-and-file employees. Messy as it was, Twitter sometimes seemed to function mostly on goodwill and the dedication of its staff. But it functioned. > >Those days are over. From the announcement of Musk’s bid to the day he walked into the office holding a sink, I watched, horrified, as he slowly killed Twitter’s culture. Debate and constructive dissent was stifled on Slack, leaders accepted their fate or quietly resigned, and Twitter slowly shifted from being a company that cared about the people on the platform to a company that only cares about people as monetizable units. The few days I spent at Musk’s Twitter could best be described as a Lord of the Flies–like test of character as existing leadership crumbled, Musk’s cronies moved in, and his haphazard management—if it could be called that—instilled a sense of fear and confusion. > >Unfortunately, Musk cannot simply be ignored. He has purchased a globally influential and politically powerful seat. We certainly don’t need to speculate on his thoughts about algorithmic ethics. He reportedly fired a top engineer earlier this month for suggesting that his engagement was waning because people were losing interest in him, rather than because of some kind of algorithmic interference. (Musk initially responded to the reporting about how his tweets are prioritized by posting an off-color meme, and today called the coverage “false.”) And his track record is far from inclusive: He has embraced far-right talking points, complained about the “woke mind virus,” and explicitly thrown in his lot with Donald Trump and Ye (formerly Kanye West). > >Devaluing work on algorithmic biases could have disastrous consequences, especially because of how perniciously invisible yet pervasive these biases can become. As the arbiters of the so-called digital town square, algorithmic systems play a significant role in democratic discourse. In 2021, my team published a study showing that Twitter’s content-recommendation system amplified right-leaning posts in Canada, France, Japan, Spain, the United Kingdom, and the United States. Our analysis data covered the period right before the 2020 U.S. presidential election, identifying a moment in which social media was a crucial touch point of political information for millions. Currently, right-wing hate speech is able to flow on Twitter in places such as India and Brazil, where radicalized Jair Bolsonaro supporters staged a January 6–style coup attempt. > >Musk’s Twitter is simply a further manifestation of how self-regulation by tech companies will never work, and it highlights the need for genuine oversight. We must equip a broad range of people with the tools to pressure companies into acknowledging and addressing uncomfortable truths about the AI they’re building. Things have to change.
This was an interesting perspective from someone who experienced this shift firsthand. It's certainly worth taking heed of the warning of algorithmic biases that are already baked into many systems. Further, self regulation though laudable, has proven at least in most tech sectors, to be ineffective at best. What we need are regulators who are familiar with key issues that are facing technology as it relates to broader society, but not beholden to tech companies or platforms. This will be tricky going forwards, but if properly administered can bring lasting benefits not just to the platforms, but also to the rest of society as well.
ilfollevolo t1_j923esv wrote
I think the most poignant and concerning point is that Musk is using one of the most powerful propaganda machines to foster his view to the masses, he got rid of everyone standing in the way, things don’t just happen casually
[deleted] t1_j94epjj wrote
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whatweshouldcallyou t1_j91bj4h wrote
"Algorithmic bias" research is mostly trash. The more rigorous of it just pretends statisticians haven't been working on sample adjustment and balancing for causal inference for literally generations, and the less rigorous simply insists that we should ignore that things are not equally and identically distributed across population subgroups.
tiktaktok_65 t1_j956ihw wrote
you don't even know what she did. talking out of your fucking ass.
asciiman2000 t1_j8yx3xu wrote
Elon is a goofball but who are these regulators you speak of? Who controls them? What is their political orientation? How do you ensure that they stay neutral and don't limit voices they don't agree with? I think you have a long way to go to invent a solution that you could convince me would be actually better than just allowing Elon to do what he wants. Most attempts to do stuff like this just result in giving power to the government to control speech and holy fuck do I think that is a bad idea.
skolioban t1_j9022h9 wrote
The difference between handing power to tech moguls instead of politicians is that we have a mechanism to replace politicians but zero mechanism to replace tech moguls. Is the mechanism flawless and effective? No. But it's still better than nothing.
whatweshouldcallyou t1_j91bq1l wrote
So you'd be totally fine with the Trump administration regulating how social media companies operate?
Asyncrosaurus t1_j91k21x wrote
Well Trump's gone now, and Elon is sticking around. So yes, the guy you can kick out is the better option than the guy who just has implicit power forever.
ForkLiftBoi t1_j91g06x wrote
Well ideally you'd do it as an agency. But we've seen how that can also have major changes quickly with administration changes... Used to be more stable as was the intent of agencies, but they're largely not.
So I would say I wish they were regulated by an agency created by Congress with characteristics they used to be 70-80 years ago. But yeah that ain't gonna happen
skolioban t1_j91ufvo wrote
We removed the Trump administration. We can't remove Elon Musk.
0pimo t1_j91cc4q wrote
>zero mechanism to replace tech moguls
Sure we do. You stop using their products and they go broke and leave.
Arkeband t1_j91y74n wrote
lmfao “just use a different internet 4head”
skolioban t1_j91uw9x wrote
Except when they have a monopoly. Try to go without any Google or Microsoft services. The US can't even remove Turbo Tax, an entirely useless service that served as a pay gate for regular people to pay tax.
It's easier to remove government administration than to forego giant corporation's products.
brycebgood t1_j9119rd wrote
> who are these regulators meat inspectors you speak of? Who controls them? What is their political orientation preferred meat? How do you ensure that they stay neutral and don't limit my access to bacon voices they don't agree with?
No regulation is perfect, but that's not a reason not to try.
whatweshouldcallyou t1_j91bsft wrote
When social media gives someone salmonella, then come back and request regulation.
WrongBrand t1_j91cx3o wrote
You got it and missed it at the same time.
Arkeband t1_j91yde2 wrote
it gave millions of people more Covid due to mass disinformation, does that count?
DevAnalyzeOperate t1_j92bzxs wrote
Her job was nonsense, her job was algorithm biaser, she biased algorithms so they wouldn’t hit non-majorities, musk came in and stripped the “toxic speech identification” and removed bias against all groups entirely. I don’t care if you claim to be benefiting white hetero Christian’s or trans black folx, by putting your finger on the scale of algorithms, you’re picking favourites.
She was paid to perpetuate something fundamentally unethical, good riddance, how lame do you have to be for Elon Musk of all people to be more ethical than you?
Those who want to regulate social media into mandatory discrimination are fucking evil by the way and if anything is this about as good as an argument for self-regulation as you are going to get.
tiktaktok_65 t1_j956lfp wrote
again someone making a general statement without knowing shit. the world is more complicated than your gut sense or your anecdotal experience.
DevAnalyzeOperate t1_j97b089 wrote
Lol complicated? Elon removed the censorship, and thus he removed the discrimination. This woman was part of the system to justify the perpetuation of discrimination and censorship. Not all that complicated. The complications you refer to are a bunch of bullshit.
If I'm going to do apologetics, Elon threw tens of billions of dollars down to end this discrimination which may have best gone towards better causes, and she didn't really have any opportunity to end discrimination like Elon could due to his stacks of cash, so one can see her as doing the best she could have done given the opportunity she had. But for her to act like what she was doing was somehow morally better than what's happening now mostly reflects the fact she's morally disgusting as are her pro-discrimination pro-censorship supporters.
[deleted] t1_j8zqv11 wrote
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tanrgith t1_j90tjuw wrote
Progressive ex twitter employee posts article on progressive newsite the atlantic, expressing feelings of not being a fan of Elon Musk's changes to Twitter, more news at 11
As if Twitter wasn't already a toxic hellscape long before Musk took it over
DustyJanglesisdead t1_j92j2yz wrote
This is the truth of it right here.
redbrick5 t1_j90ttj3 wrote
reddit > twitter
LevelWriting t1_j925osk wrote
The bar isn't very high
[deleted] t1_j911gn3 wrote
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Ihaveasmallwang t1_j91ljwv wrote
Which subreddit, specifically, have been banned for political reasons?
[deleted] t1_j929ep6 wrote
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Ihaveasmallwang t1_j92ay31 wrote
So what you’re saying is that you don’t even have a single specific example to back up your claim? I’m not surprised.
[deleted] t1_j92f1f3 wrote
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Ihaveasmallwang t1_j92fjk3 wrote
Was banned for violating the rules they agreed to. Not because of politics. Try again.
realfinkployd t1_j92qg6i wrote
But that ruins his narrative
Taraxian t1_j92tcf6 wrote
The awkward fact is that right wing accounts get banned more than left wing accounts because they are objectively worse than left wing accounts and creating the perception of "balance" requires actively favoring them
Ihaveasmallwang t1_j93akt4 wrote
It’s amazing that they don’t take responsibility for their own abusive behavior and want to blame other people when they are inevitably held accountable for it.
[deleted] t1_j92fzps wrote
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bareboneschicken t1_j92ptw4 wrote
I'm proud of being banned from multiple parts of Reddit.
Wu-TangCrayon t1_j92ti3g wrote
You mean "censored."
bareboneschicken t1_j92vlrf wrote
That's the end result, yes. Better silenced than compliant.
whyrageman t1_j92iijl wrote
sorry to say but reddit is much,much more censored then twitter is after the takeover by Musk i do not like the guy be he is actually delivering on freedom of speech,unlike here where wer going backwards.
TeaKingMac t1_j9478zd wrote
>he is actually delivering on freedom of speech
Super freedom.
He really freedommed that kid who was tracking his jet. And all those journalists who said things he didn't like.
Nothing says freedom quite like banning people from your platform.
Is he absolutely within his rights to do that as the owner of the platform? Sure. But is he a "free speech absolutist" like he claims? Absolutely not.
kinglittlenc t1_j94pr0p wrote
People have been banned from subs for a lot less.
TeaKingMac t1_j9619yk wrote
Good thing reddit doesn't go around calling itself a "free speech absolutist" then
Intensityintensifies t1_j9blbc1 wrote
It’s the people running the subs doing the banning though not the owners of Reddit personally singling out discourse he dislikes.
Intensityintensifies t1_j9blg5u wrote
It’s the people running the subs doing the banning though not the owners of Reddit personally singling out discourse he dislikes.
whyrageman t1_j95oz5q wrote
Have you seen the twitter files? Or heard Mrs.Luna on how "free" was twitter before Elon? Idk why are people defending a stalker i bet you would change your mind if that was you getting tracked.
DustyJanglesisdead t1_j91ma9w wrote
“Culture”? It was and still is an echo chamber most of the time for either side. There was no “culture”.
[deleted] t1_j9296tc wrote
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[deleted] t1_j91pchq wrote
It’s a private company. Who cares. If ppl don’t like it they can choose another platform. Or better yet build their own and not sell.
46dad t1_j92100z wrote
This is hilarious.
Silverdragon47 t1_j92sp0j wrote
Meh, twitter is still a toxic place and bots so not much changed.
Carthonn t1_j94crzl wrote
Yup it’s a terrible place that just got way more terrible. I don’t even check it anymore because my feed got completely screwed up and flooded with trash. I can’t even comprehend what happened but all of a sudden I had like bum fight videos and school fight videos flooding my feed. Just terrible.
meelawsh t1_j8zf12k wrote
This clown show was great for the rest of the tech companies cause we all got to hire the bright people from Twitter who weren’t going to bend over and accept this nonsense
hallowass t1_j8zqthh wrote
Who is hiring? All the big tech companies are laying off thousands of people...
meelawsh t1_j8ztnra wrote
Yes there is a lot of layoffs. But at the same time there is also less unemployment in tech cause people are getting rehired at different companies
https://www.computerworld.com/article/3542681/how-many-jobs-are-available-in-technology.html
TeaKingMac t1_j947dyu wrote
>All the big tech companies
Yeah, there's like a dozen of those, but there are thousands of smaller companies, and other fortune 500 companies that aren't tech focused who are still hiring.
Job market is hotter now than its been in decades
sameguyontheweb t1_j916o78 wrote
Lol you fell for headline bullshit. Tech sector is down bad and all the big ones are laying off.
meelawsh t1_j91qga3 wrote
Tech sector is both laying off and hiring a lot. There are published statistics on this on google if you’re interested
whatweshouldcallyou t1_j91b6rf wrote
Considering that Twitter is still working fine I'd say it's safe to assume the best and the brightest Twitter employees are still there.
meelawsh t1_j91qklr wrote
If by “working fine” you mean “goes down during Super Bowl” then sure
whatweshouldcallyou t1_j91qp4k wrote
Because Twitter never had outages before.
Taraxian t1_j92tlvy wrote
At that level? Not since like 2013
Arkeband t1_j91yro7 wrote
you clearly don’t use Twitter, the feeds and trending tab have been completely broken for months, it’s been down repeatedly, they’re taking away 2FA so it’s become less secure, and Musk let all the self-proclaimed Nazis back on.
Taraxian t1_j92tphl wrote
Even when someone links a Musk tweet from here you get this routine "Did he delete it?" "No you have to hit refresh a bunch of times before it loads"
whatweshouldcallyou t1_j91bcam wrote
"Someone I don't like bought the company I worked for, so government should come in and tell him how to run his company"
IMTrick t1_j91r52o wrote
From where I'm sitting, this is a really weird take. I get that it's upsetting to see the culture of an online space destroyed; that's the reason I rarely visit Twitter any more. It is, indeed, a festering shithole these days.
The idea that regulation would somehow have prevented that, though, is dubious. It's just as likely that regulation would have prevented the culture the writer enjoyed from ever appearing in the first place.
The problem here isn't a lack of regulations; it's a simple matter of one guy being in charge of a popular platform and enacting his own agenda on it (in addition to that one guy having a cult following that includes a disproportionate number of toxic assholes). It's unfortunate that Musk's priority with Twitter seems to mainly be to piss off as many people as possible for clicks (a tactic familiar to anyone who's followed other media for any length time), but how could you possibly regulate that in a way that wouldn't stifle innovation elsewhere?
I just don't see how any attempt to use regulations to enforce user behavior at a government would be anything but a dismal failure. It'd be subject to the priorities of whoever's in charge at the time, and it seems to me that this is one of those cases (and as a flaming liberal it pains me to say this out loud) where free market forces would do far good more in the long term than any legislation would. If Twitter continues to be a shithole, people will continue to create alternatives, and users will continue to flee.
This all just sounds like it's treating Twitter as a platform that's too big to fail, so it must be "fixed" rather than to let it go the way of countless social media media platforms before it for which there were better alternatives. We don't need to force Twitter to be better; we just need to let someone else do it.
TeaKingMac t1_j9492li wrote
If you read the second half of the article, it's not really about Twitter, it's about oversight of algorithms generally.
Author is basically arguing for government creating an external "machine learning ethics" oversight committee and/or open sourcing everyone's algorithms to public entities for bias checking.
rysworld t1_j9216qc wrote
Good. Twitter is bad for people and discussion and should be replaced by something better, or we should go back to blogs.
Scary-Perspective-57 t1_j913xoy wrote
I dunno I like Twitter more now. It's refreshing to be part of a platform that tries and fails often. Rather than the static, nothingness under the previous regime.
Taraxian t1_j92trqt wrote
You know who doesn't like that? Established businesses with investors to answer to
[deleted] t1_j91l3yq wrote
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Dry_Budget_1450 t1_j91xidy wrote
Schizophrenic echo chamber is not culture
Absolute_cyn t1_j925flt wrote
What a garbage take. We absolutely do not need more "oversight" from government, or from shady third party companies. Last I checked, the government does not do well with oversight or accountability, and third party companies follow wherever the almighty dollar takes them.
I'll take a bit of chaos please over that please.
johnsmithbonds8 t1_j93mrvv wrote
Elon Musk is buying Reddit!? WHAAAAAT!?!!
MpVpRb t1_j927xme wrote
The line between genius and madness is thin and fuzzy. Musk made a stupid and terrible mistake. I hope this is just a one time screwup, and not the start of a descent into madness
sonoma12 t1_j92whrm wrote
Why should the govt protect a toxic echo chamber? Who does that help? At whose cost? Twitter is a net negative the last thing it needs is government protection.
Christoph47Dev t1_j968vrs wrote
I guess it doesn't matter if I hit the paywall since the publication has baked its bias into the headline.
InterscholasticPea t1_j982rf4 wrote
You mean killing the culture that didn’t generate any profit ? Where was the shareholder value ?
HannyBo9 t1_j98nvsp wrote
Why do people hate freedom so much.
hour_of_the_rat t1_j90q26o wrote
Maybe Twitter doesn't actually matter, and if some guy wants to ruin his privately-owned business that's his prerogative.
Cheeky_Star t1_j90xthp wrote
It’s his own private company 🤷🏼♂️
aphasial t1_j91kn5g wrote
Pretty sure Elon buying it out actually constitutes "meaningful tech oversight" over a "culture [of] the inside."
No one would have been hankering for it, and Elon would never have threatened and them gotten forced to follow through with, a purchase if it hadn't been failing its own oversight and failing to stay neutral on public debates to begin with.
That007Spy t1_j91wlef wrote
What gets me is her reaction to the image cropping feature in that her reaction to something being slightly biased is to shitcan the whole thing rather than idk adding more black people to the dataset. Really speaks to the ridiculous mindset and indicates to me that it was a good thing that she got fired.
TeaKingMac t1_j949hcr wrote
I doubt that was her call to make.
I think they probably reported the problem, and then the company decided it was cheaper to trash the feature than try to fix it.
That007Spy t1_j94p1x6 wrote
I quote " Our solution was straightforward: Image cropping wasn’t a function that needed to be automated, so Twitter disabled the algorithm." Our solution means that it was her suggestion. Anyone who's solution to a problem like that is to shitcan the feature should be fired on general principles
Inconceivable-2020 t1_j91zsv5 wrote
What is Musk's and MbS's endgame? They are the Face and "Silent" Owner of Twitter.
Valiantheart t1_j91lbcv wrote
Hilarious that this guy finds the horror of Elon shaking things up, but all the meetings with government Alphabet entities is perfectly fine. FBI tells them to suppress an actual factual story? Perfectly fine. Elon cut costs then evil bad man.
travelbugeurope t1_j90knw0 wrote
“He has embraced far right talking points…”
Yet advertisers continue to pay…all the self proclaimed woke artists and famous people continue to tweet….media companies and personal continue to use it as the the president
What does that all say about society as it is?
depressing…
Valiantheart t1_j91nbsw wrote
The man is a liberal, but because he supports free speech and exposing government manipulation of civilian industries suddenly hes Far Right. Not a moderate, not a centrist, not a moderate conservative. Nope Far Right like everyone else who doesn't agree with the current talking points de jour.
Blacksbren t1_j90o6sj wrote
As someone who leans right I am personally thinking Elon is more central leaning then not. One of the problems I find with the far left that twitter had become was it was stopping the voices so to speak. They were taking it under there own hat to be the gate keepers of speech. What Elon has doe. Was to open the flood gates back up.
bairbs t1_j90pklh wrote
He is not central at all. He's very much right wing
laserwaffles t1_j91b3os wrote
Elon regularly bans people for disagreeing with him. He is worse than Twitter used to be about banning, because Twitter used to ban for violations. Now they'll ban you if Musk just doesn't like you.
Musk has gone pretty far right, and definitely isn't in any way for free speech for anyone but him.
Valiantheart t1_j91nlfr wrote
What does banning have to do with being Far Right?
It might be authoritarian, but neither side of the political spectrum has exclusivity with that notion.
mysticalfruit t1_j91dvw5 wrote
When I heard that Musk wanted 50 pages of code printed out, I knew the end was coming. That is the most useless metric you could possibly measure by.
The haphazard firings, then the "Please come back" we fucked up. The dismantling of anything resembling moderation on the platform.
The fact people are coming forward and telling tales of an environment being run by an unhinged lunatic with delusions of grandeur doesn't surprise me one bit. This is his shtick.
Though imagine your a DC engineer who got let go from this shitshow, getting a job right now..
"Yeah, nobody is left, but we built such a resilient infrastructure he can unplug entire racks and it'll keep working.. for a while.."