ArcadesRed t1_j8jzrll wrote on February 14, 2023 at 9:33 PM

Reply to comment by dyyd in EU approves 2035 ban on new fossil fuel car sales by chrisdh79

No one is saying 30 years. Most are talking from 8 to 20 at the high end.

dyyd t1_j8k0hra wrote on February 14, 2023 at 9:38 PM

Do some maths. 1kWh of battery capacity lasts for about 10k km before falling below the "magical" 70% SOH level. That means that an average EV like the Model 3 which has a 60kWh battery, will last for about 600k km. The average European drives around 15k km a year. It would take 40 years for them to drive the battery to that level. Other chemical degradation issues will probably apply before the 40 year mark which is why I brought out 20-30 years.

Oh, and the 1kWh per 10k km is based on first gen Leaf without battery thermal management. Newer chemistries and better cooling/warming solutions might have already pushed that number up so I would not be too surprised when Model 3-s end up lasting a million kilometers.

ArcadesRed t1_j8k2zv3 wrote on February 14, 2023 at 9:54 PM

Ya, that's magical lab only numbers and you know it. Find me a single company boasting those numbers right now, not in the future and I'll ceed the point.

dyyd t1_j8k4689 wrote on February 14, 2023 at 10:01 PM

No, I have seen and driven the first gen Leaf-s with 300k+ on the odometer and 70% SOH, this is real life. With the original battery.

For clarification, there is a taxi company here that exclusively uses electric cars. They managed to rack up those 300k km quite quickly, using rapid charging as well. Really brutal usage pattern. And still the batteries had ~70% SOH at 250k - 350k km, there was quite a bit of variance which may be due to driver usage patterns or the chemistry change in 2013/2014.

ben7337 t1_j8kyqib wrote on February 15, 2023 at 1:48 AM

I can't speak from experience here, but pretty sure quickly wearing the battery down is only half the puzzle. 5-10 years of exposure to summer heat and moreso freezing cold in winters will do a lot more damage to the battery. Granted if you live somewhere where it never gets below 5C or above 30C maybe the wear from exposure to elements would be much more controlled. Similarly if you always parked the car in a warm climate controlled area it would likely be fine, but that's not realistic

dyyd t1_j8nlsov wrote on February 15, 2023 at 5:08 PM

Thats why newer EV-s have liquid cooled/heated battery packs which maintain a safe temperature for the pack even when not driving.

ben7337 t1_j8nnwqz wrote on February 15, 2023 at 5:22 PM

Wait you're telling me there's ev batteries that you can leave out for 24 hours or more at below freezing temps and it keeps the battery above freezing so it's not degraded? Any source on that because I've never heard of such a thing and I'd have to ask where the energy to heat the battery comes from, is it just actively discharging to maintain a set temp, and it'd be dead if you left it out in the cold for a week or something?

dyyd t1_j8nokv6 wrote on February 15, 2023 at 5:26 PM

Personal experience from a Leaf at -30C the winter before last :D That had accumulated enough heat in it from the previous days ride that it never got to 0C.

That specific car did not have liquid cooling but it did have electric heating yeah.

Sources are many, google it.

But yeah, if you leave the car unplugged for an extended period in winter (like weeks) then it will drain from maintaining the safe temperature and then there might be damage. Which is why for taking care of your car you leave it plugged in for such situations.