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Correct_Influence450 t1_jdocunj wrote

Oh, NOW we get salty about using one's data.

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pier4r t1_jdqs2ar wrote

GPT 3,5 and 4: "we are trained over vast data collected over the internet, written by users over a long time. And books and articles on arxiv and all other things that needed quite some effort"

Also GPT: "you cannot copy from us!!"

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gk99 t1_jdqxbgk wrote

Not back when Bing was scraping Google's search results in order to try and make their search engine half decent, of course. They only stopped when they got caught, only fair AI rivals do the same.

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slashinvestor t1_jdoapb7 wrote

I wonder if that is anti-competitive... Has been a while since Microsoft's knuckles have been rapped.

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psyon t1_jdogs3g wrote

There was a court case I think involved Linked-In that was like this. A different company built a business from scraping their public pages, then Linked-in blocked them and got sued. Courts sided with the other business.

edit i have been corrected. HiQ was initially granted an injunction that prevented LinkedIn from preventing scraping. That injunction was initially upheld by the appeals court. It was later vacated and LinkedIn won the case.

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drysart t1_jdp0y1f wrote

LinkedIn won that case because the data that was being scraped didn't belong to LinkedIn (it belonged to the users who submitted it), so they had no grounds to claim copyright protection over it, and because the scraper otherwise had no contractual relationship with LinkedIn that would preclude them from doing so.

This is not that case.

Definitely for the former reason; since it involves the Bing API, which you do have to agree to a contract with Microsoft for access to and is not available non-authenticated or anonymously -- so normal contract law applies and if the terms of the contract say "you can't use this API to do that" then you can't use that API to do that.

And very possibly for the former reason too; since it's not the content of the indexed pages that being used but the compilation and organization of it; which courts have held is copyrightable even if you don't own the specific pieces of content themselves. Bing doesn't have copyright over the pages indexed, but they very likely could claim copyright over the fact that their search returns those specific results.

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pixel_of_moral_decay t1_jdpshin wrote

That’s not entirely correct. LinkedIn has copyright on the presentation. Data can not be copyrighted.

Scraping isn’t a right, any website can block or restrict scrapers regardless of content rights since there’s no SLA in place. Which is ultimately what it comes down to.

Users don’t really have a say in terms of the content they submit. They give LinkedIn the right to do pretty much anything with the data.

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gizamo t1_jdpk4ob wrote

That's incorrect . LinkedIn won that case.

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i_am_not_a_martian t1_jdplaye wrote

They could use Google's search results, so I don't think it's anti competitive.

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skywalkerze t1_jdqcpyh wrote

Microsoft uses Google search results, but blocks Google from using Bing search results. From this you draw the conclusion it's not anticompetitive?

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Buttons840 t1_jdosikk wrote

Step 1) Chat bot rivals use each others data.

Step 2) One of the rivals gets upset and sues.

Step 3) They argue that it's not fair for chat bots to be trained on other's data.

Step 4) They win their case and both chat bots are shut down.

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theoneandonlypatriot t1_jdq3jf2 wrote

Step 5) they continue training on everyone who doesn’t have the means to defend themselves’ data instead

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skywalkerze t1_jdqcugu wrote

Once the question is settled in court, it will be easier for smaller companies and individuals to defend themselves. Possibly not easy enough, that's true.

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marksda t1_jdrwn2i wrote

Bing spiders battle chatbot drones in a battle of mutually assured destruction!

I’d put my money on the openAI chatbots… (spiders are squishy)

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Ibebadatthis t1_jdobdg1 wrote

This is how we know AI chat bots are a long way from taking over…they use Bing

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TheFriendlyArtificer t1_jdod9fb wrote

Counterpoint: The AI chatbots have become so human-like that they now desire porn. Which is Bing's only redeeming feature.

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Street_Following6911 t1_jdodkui wrote

To be fair porn is always the early adopter of new tech.

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gizamo t1_jdpkduh wrote

Porn isn't adopting Bing.

Bing is helping users adopt porn.

Subtle but significant difference.

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ptd163 t1_jdpx8h3 wrote

>Which is Bing's only redeeming feature.

I know this is a meme, but Bing is really not that much better any another search engine anymore. What Bing is good (at least they were at the time I tried this which was many years ago so don't quite me) at is hiding that you're watching porn by using their videos tab. Your traffic won't say you're on PornHub for example, it'll say your on Bing.

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Straight-Comb-6956 t1_jdrk4q4 wrote

I keep hearing about Bing's porn search for years. Do people actually search for porn on search engines? Like, once you know about pornhub / rule34 / some nsfw subreddits / etc they become your one-stop shop for all erotic content.

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Thebadmamajama t1_jdphbev wrote

Correct. All they are doing is running chatgpt on the first results to summarize them, and point to the result. It's a pretty big waste of the opportunity.

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PaulClarkLoadletter t1_jdp5rb5 wrote

Microsoft: “Come on, people. Use Bing.”

Also Microsoft: “No, not like that.”

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ericneo3 t1_jdp285r wrote

Lol this is the quickest case of pulling up the ladder so that others cannot also have the success that you have, I've ever seen.

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wockyman t1_jdodvri wrote

The future is dumb.

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iIllIiIiIIillIIl t1_jdp6iqo wrote

Didn't Bing get caught copying google results verbatim?

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another-masked-hero t1_jdpeyil wrote

Yes they did though they never admitted to it despite the clear cut proof Google had provided.

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jeerabiscuit t1_jdq18tf wrote

I remember when bing was sued for using google results...

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OG_sirloinchop t1_jdoforg wrote

Yeah, force the market off your platform... makes total sense

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marksda t1_jdrx779 wrote

It’s like trying to sanction all your competitors to retain global dominance.

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MicroSofty88 t1_jdpum3h wrote

Next: websites order bing to stop using their data and content, rendering the search engine useless

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GongTzu t1_jdql4s2 wrote

Bing plowing through other websites data so they can come up with the right results. Bing being angry someone uses data they plowed from other websites, the irony is striking. MS are as usually playing the victim.

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whyreadthis2035 t1_jdokper wrote

As long as they ordered it, I’m sure folks will stop.

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gizamo t1_jdpko0i wrote

It's part of the ToS. This was a warning, if they don't stop (they won't), there will be lawsuits. The US companies will comply with the court rulings. The Chinese won't. And, that's how the Chinese win the AI wars. Game over, man. Game over.

This hyperbole brought to you by your friendly neighborhood bored drunk guy.

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Archy54 t1_jdpylqg wrote

Capitalism is about innovation...../s anticompetitive practices, what have they got to fear?

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Zieprus_ t1_jdq861e wrote

If this is true this presents a huge opportunity for google. History has shown that this closed/protectionist business model that Microsoft started a few years back and only seems to be getting worse eventually leads to them being left behind.

ChatGPT is not something they developed and the more it strays from Open-AI the more good people they lose. Having also a CEO who has only ever know Microsoft will eventually catch them out. Not saying they are not successful now just that the closed minded arrogance are warning signs to come.

Edit:Spelling mistake

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DreadSeverin t1_jdpsphz wrote

we're leaving AI development to companies with this mentality, great

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marksda t1_jdrnjej wrote

Is Microsoft is having trouble identifying bots?

Have bots mastered Microsoft’s Turing test?

Why all the bluster?

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littleMAS t1_jdpehbr wrote

Team OpenAI closes ranks.

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lightknight7777 t1_jdqgtzb wrote

Why would you use Bing? I seldom get what I want when I do, surely that would hurt their result accuracy.

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noctrise t1_jds9mhh wrote

no one even wants bings data. dont fool yourself

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Beardyhermit t1_jdunzgm wrote

It really doesn’t matter , I doubt that Bing has anything of value. It’s been rubbish anytime I’ve used it.

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thatmikeguy t1_jdpbhwj wrote

AI WarS, here we go. Eventually claim it's sentient, and then say it must have human rites.

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Top_Requirement_1341 t1_jdqaolz wrote

What, weddings and funerals?

ETA: sorry - currently re-reading "Equal Rites" by Mr Pratchett.

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Itchy_Tiger_8774 t1_jdpujp4 wrote

The AI can’t be very good if it’s using Bing to find its responses.

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SatoshisStalker t1_jdpx4x9 wrote

Microsoft just trying too look cool. I don’t think anyone (or chatbot) uses bing.

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ToShibariumandBeyond t1_jdqe3vw wrote

Always thought that there would be a reboot of robot wars 😅😅

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59ekim t1_jdrhtmm wrote

They should use DuckDuckGo.

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Mobiusman2016 t1_jdpl5dh wrote

Lol. The cats out of the bag. You wanted AI, here it is. You Cannot put it back.

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xal1124 t1_jdrpnsm wrote

What?

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Mobiusman2016 t1_jdrskpb wrote

Oh that was supposed to be internal dialogue with 2011 self. He sure wanted to see what AI could do.

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