You must log in or register to comment.

macrofinite t1_je4zyy0 wrote

Normal companies have KPI or safety calls every week for their senior managers. Apple has Union busting calls. Managers are asked to report if they even hear any employee discussing unions in any capacity so the corporate terrorist, I mean union busting team can react quickly.

Source: worked at a store for 3 years and my MIL was a store leader for 5 years.


idontsmokeheroin t1_je525q5 wrote

I spent 10 years working at Apple. You could write several books about the darkness that envelopes the psychology of Apple. From store level to executives, I saw a fair amount of unethical and sociopathic behavior in that decade. Impressive and terrifying.


greatest_fapperalive t1_je57dz9 wrote

I work there presently, and this is 100% correct. I mentioned a union to a co-worker -- outside of work and suddenly I am getting harassed due to performance.

Things like going outside of our troubleshooting documentation to fix an issue (I told the customer to restart safari)

Being scored by a manager who has zero idea of how technology works, and trying to make me admit I am wrong about doing X, or Y.

Being harassed when I am not at work because their system stated I was still logged in and in an idle state. I hadn't even logged in that day, and the time frame was off that it would even be possible.

Gaslighting, bullying, harassment. It's disgusting when you see the image apple tries to put out -- but on the inside they're a bunch of bullies who are terrified to say anything in writing. But will most certainly call you into a meeting to chastise you.


RedHare18 t1_je5qmhx wrote

currently regretting reading this on my mac while wearing an apple watch with an iPhone and airpods in my pockets


Medeski t1_je61yfz wrote

What sucks is that there really is nowhere to go. All corporations are like this.

The best thing we can do is support unions and the people attempting to form a union.


CptSuperlative t1_je6otv0 wrote

So much this. It's not like Alphabet or Samsung or Microsoft have great reputations with regard to unionization. And we have to use this tech. There is no practical alternative.

But we can vote for pro-union political candidates and pro-union state initiatives/propositions etc.


Excellent_Concert888 t1_je73k5l wrote

Do they not realize that unions have a cleansing effect on the relationship between employees and management? It makes things clearer, better?

How many class action lawsuits have happened for unionized vs non-unionized labor for companies where the lawsuit was related to unfair labor practices?

If the point of Union-busting is NOT to control labor, then why is it a worthwhile activity? Aside from ensuring employer ability to exploit employee indiscriminately?


CptSuperlative t1_je7560m wrote

Honestly? I believe it's something mostly cultural which is engrained in them at business school and which these highly paid, highly esteemed executives lack the courage, curiosity, and intelligence to question.


Excellent_Concert888 t1_je77jed wrote

It can happen even with folks not from business school, people who go from the same role you’re in into management can show the same propensity.


Psychotrip t1_je76b4d wrote

>Do they not realize that unions have a cleansing effect on the relationship between employees and management? It makes things clearer, better?

Why do you think they want things to get "better" if they benefit from the status quo? Why risk losing power over the working class? Keeping us scared and desperate keeps us in line. Its kind of the whole point.


Excellent_Concert888 t1_je77dix wrote

I guess I was asking rhetorical questions. They don’t want things to get better, and if the best people end up quitting because of it, then fine. At least people who give a shit about unions or otherwise have eyes have left and those remaining have an example of what happens


HasAngerProblem t1_je9a7ss wrote

They have to try make more money than last year, even if last year was record breaking profits. If you’re the one or few people who caused the stock to go down over moral responsibility when you are in charge you’re getting sued for not doing your fiduciary duty.


swimtwobird t1_je6vlxd wrote

Corporations in America. If apple tried any of that crap in the EU they’d get nuked from orbit.


ukezi t1_je6xjre wrote

Tesla tried in their German plant. The union and courts were not impressed at all.


swimtwobird t1_je6xwe6 wrote

Yeah Germany is the last place on earth you should try any of that. They will drop kick you.


ukezi t1_je71n4v wrote

Sweden or France would be worse. In France halve the place would have probably burned.


Medeski t1_je72vce wrote

Would have been one hell of a fire had there been Li batteries.


Psychotrip t1_je76ef0 wrote

And yet the EU is fine reaping the fruit of rotten labor just like America. Makes no difference.


Psychotrip t1_je75rcv wrote

I mean we could dismantle the literal dystopian megacorps we've been brainwashed into thinking are helpful to us in any way. This whole economic system is poison and incentivizes sociopathy.


Medeski t1_je7e5tv wrote

That is the end game of capitalism.


TheCh0rt t1_je8ga37 wrote

I’m currently using my iPad Pro as a dildo. Imagine how I feel reading this!


chockobumlick t1_je763n7 wrote

I have good instincts then. I black balled them when they off shored their money to avoid taxes


Nach0Stallion t1_je7hl23 wrote

It’s sad, I enjoyed working there early days in red zone, but as soon as I entered a role with metrics the BS and knives in the back came out, it was like working at a highschool. One team member got spoken too because he mentioned a party in the break room and invited his friends and someone felt left out and reported as bullying Had the biggest shit eating grin when I handed them my resignation after 7 years. Perks were good, but that place was killing me. Stay safe internet friend.


xoraclez t1_je8cbam wrote

I refuse to buy or use crApple products for this and many, many other reasons, ethical and otherwise.


-The_Blazer- t1_je6st2x wrote

Always tripped me out that sociopathy and economic success seem to be so correlated in our society, EG there was that research that suggested that CEOs are among the professions with the most sociopaths/psychpaths. I don't know if "sociopathy should not be rewarded but punished" is a hot take.


iamthewaffler t1_je6ptny wrote

>I spent 10 years working at Apple. You could write several books about the darkness that envelopes the psychology of Apple. From store level to executives, I saw a fair amount of unethical and sociopathic behavior in that decade. Impressive and terrifying.

I've been working at Apple for 7 years, my experience has been basically the exact opposite of what you describe. Admittedly when I talk to the Career Experience (CE) folks we host for 6 month internships from the retail stores, the experience of working in retail sounds pretty grueling and awful, and has gotten much worse over the past 10 years. So like, that's a dark side, but I don't think its Apple-specific. Also, none of them can imagine leaving, because any other retail is worse (less choice in hours, much fewer benefits, less certainty in pay, etc).

But within corporate, like, sure, you can find empire-building and micromanagement and inept management and racist managers who hire exclusively foreigners from their home province…but you can find that in any large company. Most folks seem to care about what they do, care about customers' experience, and care about trying to have an overall positive impact. Management that I've worked with (up to VP level) has been occasionally kooky but always with their heart in the right place. My experience is that we'll go way out of our way to make sure that changes we make to improve supply chain integrity (ie not conflict minerals) or achieve eco-friendly goals are REAL improvements rather than just something we could claim without it making any actual difference. Like, tens of millions of dollars just that I've seen in my little corner of Apple to ensure the impact is real.

On the personal front, I fucked up majorly last year, my personal life exploded in a really nasty way, and I basically stopped working for a few months, didn't show up and didn't tell anyone much of anything, which was right during performance review season. My management basically made a formal note in my performance review that was like "we know iamthewaffler can do better and we're committed to getting them back on track" and they were like "hey let us know what if anything you need, also we have all these benefits that enable you to take a few weeks paid off if you're struggling, and you should definitely use them, just please let us know how we can support you, people get worried when you go dark". I feel very supported. So, I dunno. No real sociopathic or unethical behavior to report. I saw way more fucked up shit working in tort litigation with lawyers, and WAY more fucked up shit working in two hardware technology startups.

Just out of curiosity, how have you been able to interface with both store level dynamics and also executives? Seems like that sort of experience is quite uncommon. I have much more breadth at Apple due to my role than is typical, but I'm still not commonly interacting with anyone outside of engineering and above director-level (with the exception of our CEs).


Nach0Stallion t1_je7gzbm wrote

7 years for me, The empty promises of career advancement were second only to the constant bickering and backstabbing. At one time being actively asked to report on people saying negative things about the management.


Studds_ t1_je7v771 wrote

I wish they’d enforce antitrust laws. I prefer iphones over androids & that’s basically the only options. Stick with a product I don’t like or a company that’s unscrupulous because there’s no meaningful competition


rpotty t1_je7mj6v wrote

While I worked there they fired people for not smiling during all-store meetings… it seemed like a loose-cult at times because everyone seemed to be brainwashed by Apple (the examples sound petty to type them out but it definitely was an odd experience)


Entaris t1_je77df1 wrote

In like 2003 my highschool computer teacher showed us the movie “pirates of Silicon Valley “. That movie immediately turned me off of apple because If even a fraction of what is portrayed in that movie is based on real events then the core of the company is irredeemable.


kagethemage t1_je5gzrt wrote

Bargaining Committee member for Apple Towson here. If you want to hear more about the horrible Anti Union things apple has done hit me up.


deltron t1_je5uh16 wrote

You should hit up Vice News, they have some very good labor reporters.


kagethemage t1_je65fit wrote

We’ve talked to lots and lots of outlets already. I’m pretty sure they’ll wrote an article. Also wired, Bloomberg, WaPo, NYT, Just to name a few.


goinginforguns t1_je6lkck wrote

Get ‘em Towson.

  • from this (happily former) R271 (almost) Lead Genius.

… “almost”, because I was given the opportunity but refused to abuse my team the way store leaders demanded.

Hope things get / are getting better for you. The only thing that made it better for me was leaving and never looking back. Life is so much better - happier, more balanced, far less stressful, far more pay - on the outside. Do what you’ve got to do, and earn that self-promotion to customer. Best of luck.

I still love the products. I dislike the company, and I absolutely fucking hate the retail side of it. An absolute shitshow, for both employees and customers. Oof … the stories I could tell.

Edit (addition): fwiw I made $47,000/yr as a (sort of) Lead Genius, $23 an hour or something. $55,000 with all the forced overtime. I left, and two years later make $110,000/yr as an IT Analyst. It feels like playing the game on easy mode now. Apple set me up with good foundations (I still use basic customer service tools I learned at the Genius Bar in my career now) but that’s about it. They do a really good job at trapping you, always making you feel like the next step is just in reach, and then taking advantage of it; all the while making you feel part of something and that you won’t ever find anything better - even if you did, good luck! Heads up, just like an abuser who says all the same bullshit: it’s not true.

Edit 2: and ofc, here come the suspicious downvotes!


PomodoroPosture t1_je6s2d2 wrote

Any tips for a potential future customer? (I have had a string of bad luck with Android phones arriving malfunctioning).


alivefromthedead t1_je7e8kq wrote

also former r271 here. made some of my best friends there, and learned some of my hardest lessons. proof: jedshot.


battlesubie1 t1_je6ejmd wrote

Taking you up on that


kagethemage t1_je6g1yg wrote

One of the biggest things that hit our store were the captive audience meetings. They brought in an entire team of managers to replace our 10 person leadership team so that they could hold several “round tables” a day where they tried to scare us out of organizing and create divide among the team. They picked team members with anti union stances and gave them the pedestal to read talking points from Littler-Mendelson (The union busting law firm) and allowed them to peddle wild conspiracy theories and go on aggressive rants about unions. They masked coordinated talking points as “just expressing their opinion” and made hand picked groups of people to create the illusion of strong anti union support in the store to gaslight team members i to thinking support for a union wasn’t strong. They scaled back coverage on the floor and blamed the stressful and overloaded work load on the union. They pulled people randomly for one on one meetings with the store leader outside of the store where they were interrogated about their level of support for the union so they could assess people. They read anti union talking points in every morning meeting and announced withholding new benefits to our team as a result of us organizing.

That’s not even getting in to the very suspicious harassment I got online from bot accounts after our victory.


swimtwobird t1_je6wubg wrote

Yeah, there no getting around the fact apple are a very ugly company internally. The built in company culture of bullying and harassment seems to be across all divisions. Feels like a nasty, nasty shop with a country club veneer from the outside.


kingcobweb t1_je72d6a wrote

Solidarity from Verizon ✊


DannyBoy81x t1_je8bq9m wrote

I hope things are better where you are! In my experience Verizon (the wireless side of the company) is just as bad as Apple. Constant union busting. People who dared mention the U word or even hinted at organizing suddenly faced corrective action or were fired on some other pretense.


BadFaithAlways t1_je5hkba wrote

I wish unions would hire anti-anti union busting people.

Like hire some pipe hitting motherfuckers to just make the anti-union people uncomfortable when leaving their car and their house and stuff.

Not harassment, just letting these people know they’re there.


Xhiel_WRA t1_je5ud0r wrote

That thing you described definitely falls under the legal definition of harassment.

Not that I disagree with doing it. Just, ya know, snake is a snake and all.


BadFaithAlways t1_je5w94m wrote

I just want them to use the same legal slime ball tactics that anti-union companies use. Just turned up to 11


Xhiel_WRA t1_je5wgn1 wrote

We used to! People literally died so you'd have a 5 day work week.


Sdog1981 t1_je6skwa wrote

They did and that's why they were heavily involved with the mob. Which made unions easy targets for law enforcement during the Regan years. It fit their narrative perfectly that unions were just robbing the working man.


TheForbiddenFool t1_je6vy3l wrote

If you ever need proof unions are good for workers and not the companies bottom-line, look at what’s going on with Starbucks, Chipotle, Apple etc right now.


schwaboy t1_je7lqwg wrote

Union busting is an easy value proposition for corporations. The burden of proof is high. The rate of enforcement is VERY low. The punishment for doing it is really minimal. Even in a worst-case scenario, it's worth it for them to try every union busting tactic they can think of.

Until the punishment fits the crime, the union busting will continue.


Nouseriously t1_je6qmij wrote

Punishment if found guilty should be all Apple locations become immediately unionized.

That by itself would scare corporate America into no longer breaking the law. Punishment must be massive and disproportionate to get the C suite to notice.


housepuma t1_je72lzs wrote

Apple wants to be known as the "darling" of the computer industry. It's every bit as fucking evil as all of the other corpos.


Setekh79 t1_je8bt32 wrote

It's so fucking bizarre to see how America treats its workforce. Like lmao.


sids99 t1_je69d1p wrote

I love the image Apple has crafted for itself but you don't get to be the wealthiest corporation in the world without doing terrible things.


Puakkari t1_jeanwu1 wrote

Yeah, then they pay fines and continue business as is and know how to fuck people over without lawsuits.


mrot777 t1_je6hbc8 wrote

Apple, Starbucks, the same people who use and support these brands are the ones kept from unionizing. At some point you gotta make a decision.


Iwantmyflag t1_je7eca2 wrote



spaceocean99 t1_je7pcka wrote

I mean, it’s right in their contract that if they try to unionize they’ll be fired. Did they not read the contract they signed?


Salty_Nature_460 t1_je88hco wrote

Check how the unions screwed up the schools. Want them on your phones?


CarlCarbonite t1_je52l0n wrote

Just fine them for .01% of their profits for a day like always. /s


Cyclops_roxx t1_je51gux wrote

Why not arrested if its illegel?


wdomon t1_je52pyw wrote

Same reason you don’t get arrested for not using a turn signal. Not every crime is an arrest.


Reasonable_Ticket_84 t1_je5gm4w wrote

Not everything illegal is codified as go to jail . Many things have law written as only fines for punishment.


ShallowFreakingValue t1_je54f1r wrote

Depends on what apple actually did and why people were let go. I know zero about this case, but I am personally familiar with several cases where employees claimed labor discrimination to try and avoid being fired for something else (theft in my most memorable case)


SBBurzmali t1_je5af9u wrote

It's the latest hustle, work for a giant company, join a union, stop working, get fired, sue for the company's "anti-union activities" and hope for a quick settlement.


LavenderAutist t1_je5ef05 wrote

How is this technology related?


MrCreamsicle t1_je5yqtm wrote

"In what way is the technology company Apple related to technology?"


LavenderAutist t1_je6as4u wrote

These are people working at retail stores

It's equivalent to working at a Starbucks


MrCreamsicle t1_je6lchv wrote

The retail stores in which they sell technology? Oh, right. The technology. The technology for Apple, the technology chosen especially to benefit Apple, Apple's technology. That technology?


East_Onion t1_je5qucq wrote

private company they can do what they want


Xhiel_WRA t1_je5ulyw wrote

No they cannot. Those things they "allegedly" did are illegal. Private companies still have to follow the law. And it's against the law retaliate against your employees for unionizing.


East_Onion t1_je9vok6 wrote

No they don't they can do what they want 🤷‍♂️


Xhiel_WRA t1_je9zhr4 wrote

This account has chains of comments like this. Do not engage. It's just trolling like this, just going "nuh uh".


CommercialApron t1_je5jf4p wrote

Unions are just money grabs. Mad respect to Apple if true


BigSailBoat1 t1_je5fyev wrote

Unpopular opinion: unions promote mediocrity


Tyre_blanket t1_je5h4es wrote

Yup. Unions had their time. And that time has long past.


TehGuard t1_je5hhvw wrote

How so? We can presently see protections that unions gave us being eroded like children working laws.


BigSailBoat1 t1_je5mys7 wrote

You talking about the youth hiring act of 2023 ? It allows teenagers that are 14-15 the ability to get a job. No one is forcing anybody to work. It is just opening the way for teenagers that want to work to be able to get a job without the government having to give permission.


TehGuard t1_je5nral wrote

It allows companies to take advantage. It stipulates anybody 16-18 doesn't need an ID to get a job and 14-15 year olds just need parental permission. Aka, no official way to prove how old a kid actually is. This comes months after multiple meat packing plants were caught employing 12-15 year olds. We are going to hear many many more accounts of kids working jobs they should not once in effect.


BigSailBoat1 t1_je5t6ro wrote

🥱 no one’s forcing them to be there. They want to work. Why is this so difficult to understand?


TehGuard t1_je5u2ww wrote

Nobody forced children to be coal miners or to work on dangerous factory jobs last century either and many died as a result. Is that what you want to go back to?


--A3-- t1_je5u9q6 wrote

This is your brain on union busting: "I'm okay with expanding the extent to which a business can use child labor."


BigSailBoat1 t1_je5vwuw wrote

I am OK with teenagers that are 14+ that want to work to be able to get a job in a safe work environment. Having a job is a good thing, and being able to work from a young age helps teens to learn social skills, develop responsibility, manage money, and understand personal finance.

And I am also OK with businesses, being proactive against unionization in order to prevent mediocrity in the workplace, higher labor costs, slower rates of advancement for excelling employees, unnecessary lawsuits, slower rates of company growth ,etc.

Have a great and fantastic day everybody


--A3-- t1_je5xzjc wrote

If they understood personal finance, they would know that the best thing they could do right now is focus on getting a good education. Not only is education itself important to becoming a well-rounded member of society, but when primary education falls to the wayside because you want to make child-level wages today, you are likely dooming yourself to a lifetime of low-wage replaceable blue collar work.

Loose child labor laws rely on the fact that many children do not yet know this. Employers find it much easier to take advantage of kids who don't know their rights, feel intimidated to speak up, and accept lower wages because $7.25 per hour seems like a lot to a kid.

It's fascinating how you're so deeply invested in other conspiracies, yet you cannot see that the biggest supporters of union busting and child labor are greedy elites who want to screw the people over so that they can make more profit.


Iwantmyflag t1_je7fwwy wrote

I can't believe Apple is petty enough to send several paid shills to a reddit thread. Yet here we are.


--A3-- t1_je5tbk1 wrote

The only people who think this are the companies' managers, HR, and of course owners.

There is a direct correlation between the decline in labor union participation rates and the shrinking of the middle class. There is so much data to show that emplpyees represented by a union are better compensated for the hours that they work. Countries with strong unions enjoy much better labor protections and benefits than workers in the US get.


Definitely_wasnt_me t1_je4tr1l wrote

Read the article. These people stopped showing up for work, faked having covid, and assumed that they could use a union to protect their absurd anti work behavior.


Zahz t1_je4zfxa wrote

What article did you read? You either lie or you are unable to read.

From the article:

> "Apple management said I was fired for a typo in my timesheet that I had documented and tried to correct. Yet, it is clear the real reason I was fired was for exercising my right to organize and win a protected voice on the job," D'lite Xiong, a former employee at the Country Club Plaza Apple Store in Kansas City, declared in a statement.

It then goes on to describing the intimidation, interrogation and coercion that apple has used against people who are in a union.


kagethemage t1_je5gwvw wrote

So I am in the bargaining committee for the Apple Store in Towson MD. The moment we won our vote I was bombarded with DMs on instagram telling me to kms. I have zero doubt Littler Mendlson is botting and Astro turfing.


Sorge74 t1_je55l4x wrote

Yeah, apple declined to comment doesn't seem to support it being in the article.


Chobeat t1_je4ymjh wrote

these sockpuppets are getting weirder by the day