Submitted by savuporo t3_1256dh9 in technology
Prophayne_ t1_je2s6x8 wrote
I'm sorry, but did this person just say that making it ourselves isn't good enough and we should just subsidize asian industries?
Thats undercutting the entire point of this, get rid of our reliance on china and other countries for things we deem important for national defense. I know its not that simple and clean cut, but thats the gist of what the bipartisan politicians who passed this wanted. It brings industry and jobs back to the united states and secures a production line for a valuable strategic asset that would otherwise be cut off by china in a worse case scenario basis.
I agree that its weird to plan for the biggest bad out of the hypothetical, but I'd rather have this stuff and not need it than say, lose an important war due to lack of it.
War is shit. The reasons all of our nations do these things are shit. But until an actual global government takes shape (that places like china, russia and N. Korea will recognize), we gotta keep ourselves safe first.
547610831 t1_je2y9to wrote
It's pretty simple; the US can't manufacture these chips as cheaply as Asia. So you either have to commit to tens of billions in subsidies a year ad infinitum or accept that the production will all end up overseas.
DonQuixBalls t1_je33owe wrote
> the US can't manufacture these chips as cheaply as Asia
Chip fabrication isn't heavily dependent on labor costs. Can they really not be made about as cheaply, or have we just chosen not to do it because the odd penny here and there has been considered a sufficient savings?
547610831 t1_je34a5q wrote
It's not just labor costs. There's also a lot of regulations in the US which increase costs.
DonQuixBalls t1_je35j0d wrote
Regulation definitely adds to the bottom line, both in real dollars and the cost of added time. Sounds like a streamlined approval process is what's desperately needed. Same is true for mining permits.
savuporo OP t1_je3f0lc wrote
> Sounds like a streamlined approval process is what's desperately needed
That's ... precisely what the article advocates for. And also for streamlined immigration of absolutely required skilled talent, because US education system isn't producing nearly enough
"Streamlined approvals" ( aka less regulation ) is also desperately needed for things like building out infrastructure
SilverZero-03 t1_je87m3c wrote
You're somewhat right about labor costs. However there is an absurd amount of specialized labor needed to make the fabs run at the cutting edge. Look at how Intel tried and failed falling behind TSMC.
The other issue from a corporate perspective is the fabs are silly expensive. I'm pretty sure they are the most expensive buildings in the world once you account for all the equipment you need . Once you construct one, you need it to run 24/7 pumping out chips to even pretend to make the expenditure worth it. Hasn't the USA had some large profile power failures in the not to distant past? You'd be screaming at the moon as a fab if you suffered a shutdown caused by inadequate infrastructure outside your plant.
China is also trying to get at the high end of chips, and they earmarked over $140 billion USD, and remember that with purchasing power parity that money goes a lot further in China vs USA. All this is to say it is very expensive and technically difficult to be at the high end of fabs. I have a feeling both countries will end up with some higher end fabs, but give it time and they'll fail at keeping up the pace.
DonQuixBalls t1_je8bzmi wrote
> fabs are silly expensive.
This is NO exaggeration. You can build a lot of things in a garage, or a million dollar factory. Chips can't be built in a BILLION dollar factory.
> Hasn't the USA had some large profile power failures in the not to distant past? You'd be screaming at the moon as a fab if you suffered a shutdown caused by inadequate infrastructure outside your plant.
No country has 100% uptime. Like hospitals, you have batteries and generators onsite capable of picking up the load without interruption.
> China is also trying to get at the high end of chips, and they earmarked over $140 billion USD,
If they've done this, this will almost surely be enough to get them to the forefront.
savuporo OP t1_je2sltf wrote
> I'm sorry, but did this person just say that making it ourselves isn't good enough and we should just subsidize asian industries?
No, you apparently didn't read the article. What the editors letter is saying is that just throwing money at the problem isn't doing what's expected.
They point out three major flaws in the current plan - flaws that pretty much anyone in the industry could have predicted
Prophayne_ t1_je2veb7 wrote
Literally, the first paragraph (which I read) mentions how the "simple solution" is subsidies "prudently applied" and then talks about the merits of the asian sector over ours in the following. Thats literally the first half of the article. Also, subsidizing all these fucking corps to do our shit for us is literally how were here in the first place with most our industry shipped offshore.
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