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Ahab_Ali t1_jcb2aee wrote

It is no secret that while your country may be a democracy, your company is most likely a dictatorship.

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memberjan6 t1_jcbcbeo wrote

Was he quoting in support or against though?

I like to quote Trump. Do you think I support Mango Mussolini now?

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Whats-A-Justin t1_jcbcp0m wrote

And so did Dwight from the office. Literally, there’s an episode where Jim gives him talking points and they’re speeches from Benito Mussolini

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arbutus1440 t1_jcbd9m8 wrote

Replying to colonel_beeeees (#2,236,490)

That's such a weird way of putting it.

I think more Americans realize how post-democracy we are than you think.

And our "authoritarian workplaces" are a shitty example. How about the fact that our government just took away abortion rights that almost everybody wants, that climate change is ignored despite the majority wanting it addressed, or the fact that large companies get to dump waste, steal wages, predate on lenders, and rig prices with impunity?

FFS everybody stop making fascism about PERSONAL FAILINGS of such and such a population. The rise and fall of authoritarianism is a force of history, and we have to fight it for what it is, not what makes it easy for us to pigeonhole and redirect so we don't feel any personal responsibility to act.

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The_IT_Dude_ t1_jcbdaxs wrote

It's almost like narcissistic people are often put into positions of power, especially in the tech industry, and like 1% of the time, something wonderful like this happens, they out themselves, and things can be set right lol

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ShakaWTWF t1_jcbegf7 wrote

Replying to colonel_beeeees (#2,236,490)

Nah, I got a pretty good Union and my company is pretty generous anyway (free health insurance, unlimited sick days, optional Friday “work from home”days, performance based bonuses, etc.)

I know this isn’t necessarily the case for everyone tho.

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Jarnagua t1_jcbjbtw wrote

He should have said it was a Taylor Swift quote.

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WoolyLawnsChi t1_jcbm0me wrote

You know

Corporate Heirachries seem to attract a very specific type of person

and maybe that's bad

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silvaifrondosai t1_jcbmjr5 wrote

Replying to memberjan6 (#2,236,774)

As the article says, "In the original speech, Mussolini asserted his power over Italy and admitted to murdering his opponent Giacomo Matteotti, a politician who had criticized the government." But surely he wasn't supporting Mussolini quoting that speech/s Maybe next time, try reading the actual article: The quote is just in the first paragraphs.

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select_L0L t1_jcbsei1 wrote

Replying to colonel_beeeees (#2,236,490)

The fuck kind of argument is that? “Democratic control over a workplace” is quite possibly the dumbest thing I’ve heard in a while, especially while trying to say that a country isn’t a democracy because of that

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select_L0L t1_jcc005s wrote

Replying to cheese131999 (#2,237,976)

I think you missed the part in the comment I responded to where the person claimed the US wasn’t a democracy because we don’t have democratic control over our workplace. You quite literally missed the whole point they were making, and yet you still defended it

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cheese131999 t1_jcc1mpu wrote

Replying to select_L0L (#2,238,004)

I mean, you said democratic control over the workplace is the dumbest thing you’ve heard in a while, which I think is the dumbest thing that IVE heard in a while. Unions are democratic control over a workplace. If you really meant that calling the US an undemocratic nation by virtue of all of us not all being in unions or co-ops is stupid, you have an actual point there. I still disagree with it, as an American, but at least it’s not extolling your ignorance as a virtue.

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colonel_beeeees t1_jcc5kw5 wrote

Replying to AceWanker3 (#2,237,287)

Leaving an uncontrollable situation isn't exerting control over a situation

The vast majority of American workers have no real democratic say in their working schedule, environment, or compensation. They spend the majority of their waking life under authoritarian rules

The already mentioned exceptions would be union or co-op workplaces, where workers actually have control/negotiating power

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thisisinsider t1_jcc64bj wrote

From reporter Sawdah Bhaimiya, "The boss of an Italian government-controlled technology company resigned after he quoted the fascist dictator Benito Mussolini in an internal email, according to numerous reports.

Claudio Anastasio resigned as the chairman of 3-I — a tech company that provides software services for Italy's welfare and statistics agencies — on Tuesday, two government sources told Reuters. The story was also reported by Italian newspaper La Repubblica.

Anastasio, who was appointed by Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni in November, sent an inauguration email to board members quoting Mussolini, who ruled Italy as a dictator from 1922 to 1943.

The former chairman quoted from a 1925 Mussolini speech and tweaked it to substitute the word "fascism" for "3-I," per the Times of London.

"But then, oh gentlemen, what butterflies shall we seek under the arch of Titus? Well, I declare here, before you and before the entire Italian government, that I assume (I alone!) responsibility for 3-I (political! moral! historical!) of everything that has happened," Anastasio wrote in the email.

"If more or less distorted phrases are enough to hang a man, out with the gallows and out with the rope! If 3-I was my fault, the responsibility for this is mine, because I have contributed through my role to the historic, political, and moral climate."

Anastasio provided no clear reasoning for his unusual choice of quote, the Times wrote."

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select_L0L t1_jccg47g wrote

Replying to cheese131999 (#2,238,067)

Unions are most definitely not a democratic control over the workplace. Hell, one of the biggest battles for unions is getting the company to listen to them

But yeah, my point was about the US not being a democracy because of that. At least we can agree on that, which was what the original comment was trying to say

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cheese131999 t1_jcchxq2 wrote

Replying to select_L0L (#2,238,851)

Ill freely admit I straight up didn't see your second half of the comment, to the point where I thought you edited it until I saw that wasn't the case. My bad, does no one any good to argue against a strawman.

In any case, our unions aren't near as good or as effective as the unions in Europe, and the difficulty they have in trying to get companies to listen to them is indicative of the problems we have. Our democracy is subverted by the cold truth that companies buy out our politicians, which means that unions are disempowered by both federal and state lawmakers.

Our government works to ensure that the work place can only function as a dictatorship, and they push the narrative that unions are weak and ineffectual and just take your money through dues. The government made things this way.

I mean for Christ's sake, Biden busted the most important strike in this country in probably the last three decades, and we're already seeing the horrific consequences.

This country is democratic, more so than a lot of places, but it is wildly less democratic in our day to day lives than a lot of our allies in Europe. It's not hard to see why they think we live in an authoritarian hellhole, because by comparison to what they've got, we freaking do.

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CoolPractice t1_jcckout wrote

Replying to colonel_beeeees (#2,236,490)

Democracy is a political structure, labor is a socioeconomic structure. Yes we absolutely live in a democracy but the socioeconomic structure for labor is capitalism. Capitalism doesn’t give a shit about who controls the workplace as long as it’s the one with the most money.

Swing and a miss. But nice try shitting on people at the bottom rung for no reason I guess.

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E_Snap t1_jcckyyi wrote

Replying to arbutus1440 (#2,236,829)

It is about personal failings of the population though. If we were able to stop rabidly chasing our own goals at the expense of everyone else, the political elite couldn’t divide and conquer us. Here’s a video explaining how this happens. By manipulating the order in which policies are voted on and always making sure that each successive policy alienates a different out group, politicians play our selfish interests against each other to get us to vote our way out of a stable compromise and into a legal policy that no demographic wants.

This is to say: when politicians start pandering to a rotating cast of a slight majority of the population and telling each group left that they already had their turn and to wait, that’s tantamount to gerrymandering. “Progressive” politics (in name only, obviously) repeatedly fall prey to this. They’ll strategically let each demographic successively drag the window of what is appropriate far into their own court. This wild back-and-forth-and-to-the-side swinging eventually walks the window into a portion of “legal policy space” where the obvious and easily passable compromise between all demographics is something that would be considered shocking and outlandish to most of the general population.

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CoolPractice t1_jccotrg wrote

Replying to colonel_beeeees (#2,238,265)

Having agency is the definition of exerting control. No one is holding you hostage at work. If you hate the rules and the situation, leave. Start your own business like millions of Americans do. Find a better job, like millions of Americans do. Study for certs/diplomas if you have to, like millions of Americans do.

It’s incredibly naive to think unions or co-ops don’t have presidents and boards at the top making the important moves. Deciding which votes are made, for what. The IATSE strike threat was a perfect example of this: the workers were in a great dealmaking position when the union leaders drafted a deal that failed to address core issues. It’s always top down, in every situation. The only real solution is to be the decision maker.

Or to simply accept that life doesn’t allow you have 100% of the power 100% of the time.

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-Gramsci- t1_jccqhdb wrote

Meloni palling around with Mussolini stans is something we all had on our bingo cards.

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colonel_beeeees t1_jccvq95 wrote

Replying to AceWanker3 (#2,238,876)

When the alternative to what someone's offering is homeless and starvation, the exchange is no longer voluntary. Hence the term wage slavery

What do you do if no employer in your town is paying a wage that covers the bills? Use your power to leave... to where?

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FirmEstablishment941 t1_jccwdw3 wrote

Replying to Toxicz (#2,239,605)

It’s not essential… some times the proximity of one is enough… unfortunately Canada is following USAs lead on that front in many ways… at least we’re more closely aligned to the eu with respect to parental leave.

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arbutus1440 t1_jccwhkx wrote

Replying to E_Snap (#2,239,086)

I really don't get why people keep framing it this way. Scientifically, and from an evolutionary perspective, it's utter nonsense.

>chasing our own goals at the expense of everyone else

...is what our species has done throughout its entire existence.

>politicians play our selfish interests against each other

...as they always have, throughout our entire history.

People keep talking about these things as if somehow people could ever do anything different. They can't.

"Human nature" is a phantom opponent. We are who we are. We're not evolved to do things like separate truth from fiction when the truth threatens our well-being. It's just evolutionary fact. People do what they're wired to do, and expecting people to all behave like model citizens when that's literally never happened in the history of our species is just a recipe for frustration and futility.

Focus your ire on the systems. The hippies were right, and they've always been right: It's capitalism. It's the plutocracy. It's the corruption. All of these are reversible—human nature isn't. Stop getting mad at people and start getting mad at systems. It's not emotionally satisfying but it's what's gotta happen if we're gonna survive.

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E_Snap t1_jccz4ul wrote

Replying to arbutus1440 (#2,239,662)

Lol no, it’s democracy that’s the problem. Corruption, plutocracy, tribalism, and capitalistic tendencies arise out of even small differences between demographics when they are given the “right” to vote based upon their prejudices, and you’ve already decided that we can’t expect voters to make informed decisions.

People like to slant-quote Churchill and say “Yeah whatever, democracy sucks but it sucks least out of everything we’ve tried,” as if we did a 100% no-reload completion of the game of History and we don’t need to try new things anymore (or give old underutilized ideas another shot). I’m here to say fuck that— we are still evolving our society. Anyone who says that the current status quo is the best we can do is trying to sell you a bridge. All democracy does is placate the masses for trying when the politicians inevitably choose to go their own way anyway.

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Efficient_Mix_9031 t1_jcd1awh wrote

Mussolini did nothing but eat shit too, even amongst facist. I mean hitlers Germany punched way above its weight so that’s something to respect if you just don’t care about morals, which you obviously should

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colonel_beeeees t1_jcd49n2 wrote

Replying to AceWanker3 (#2,239,707)

How do you move you and your family to the high paying town with high rents if you haven't been able to find a job that lets you save?

You're also ignoring the again large amount it requires to start a business, when you haven't been able to save. All it takes is a subpar credit score to keep someone from getting a loan

The actual long-term solution is to work to unionize your workplace, or move to co-op/public ownership. Why run from a problem when you can fix it?

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[deleted] t1_jcdfqso wrote

Replying to limitless__ (#2,236,172)

Huh? They literally vote in politicians who openly admire Mussolini, including relatives of…Mussolini. Italians in general are extremely right wing. Try finding an Italian Australian who doesn’t vote LNP, even the working class Italians vote conservative

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AaruIsBoss t1_jcdmktm wrote

“Blood alone moves the wheels of history! Have you ever asked yourselves in an hour of meditation, which everyone finds during the day,how long we have been striving for greatness? Not only the years we've been at war, the war of work, but from the moment as a child when we realized that the world could be conquered. It has been a lifetime struggle. A never-ending fight. I say to you, and you will understand that it is a privilege to fight! We are warriors! Salesmen of north-eastern Pennsylvania, I ask you once more: Rise and be worthy of this historical hour! No revolution is worth anything unless it can defend itself! Some people will tell you salesman is a bad word. They'll conjure up images of used car dealers and door to door charlatans. This is our duty: to change their perception. I say salesmen... and women of the world unite! We must never acquiesce for it is together, TOGETHER, THAT WE PREVAIL! We must never cede control of the motherland! For it is together that [the audience] we prevail!"

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sosomething t1_jcdyqms wrote

Replying to colonel_beeeees (#2,240,015)

Well here's the awesome thing about geography- there's lots of it.

You don't have to live in a place with a high cost of living.

In most of those places; coastal cities, Chicago, NY; the increase in your wages isn't commensurate with the increased cost of living compared to an emerging city or town. Someone making $80k in Cincinnati lives a lot better than the same person making $120k in Chicago. And that's only if your skills are the type that aren't marketable in towns without a tech sector. Although with emergent decentralized workforces and remote work, even that is becoming less of a factor.

I could do my job from anywhere with a halfway decent ISP, which means I could do it for any company that wanted to hire me and then live more or less wherever I wanted. Why, then, would I choose to pay $2000/mo for a shitty apartment in a major city when I could live like a king somewhere else?

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vezwyx t1_jce0syd wrote

Replying to luna_beam_space (#2,236,500)

In name maybe, but many of them pretty blatantly drop the pretense of democratic control otherwise. Like "we're dissolving parliament and making my emergency powers permanent by law" blatant

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Worried_Ad6191 t1_jcecsjl wrote

My team lead referred to me and a other guy as Double D’s since both of our names started with a D.

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Sp3llbind3r t1_jcedvav wrote

Replying to Ahab_Ali (#2,236,216)

You know, italy has a right wing, at least boarderline facist government now? And they are still trying to look not facist?

So nobody is really surprised by their fascist buddys doing fascist things?

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tuana122000 t1_jcf7a9u wrote

A Fascist party leader and famous admirer of Mussolini appoint another sycophant...

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Hamish_Ben t1_jcfm2sx wrote

Came here for the Dwight Schrute comments. Was not disappointed.

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Javaman2001 t1_jch0vxi wrote

Replying to colonel_beeeees (#2,243,618)

You think I made en error? In The USA you don’t get to vote on any laws, your representative does. And even if all his constituents want him to vote one way he can disagree and vote the other way. The only thing you can do is vote him out office at the next election. Democracy often results in tyranny of the majority over the minorities and often the majority is wrong.

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