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Adventurous_Ideal849 t1_jcepfj6 wrote

Do the rest of the mobile gaming industry now. I mean, again, since most of the big platforms* already got nailed once ten years ago for all the trickery and fraudulent purchases that are absolutely pervasive today.

* IIRC each of Apple, Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Facebook were each successfully sued by the FTC for ripping everyone and especially parents off in games.


markofthebeast143 t1_jcf0z8j wrote

"As part of a separate settlement, also announced in December, Epic agreed to pay a $275 million penalty to settle FTC allegations that the company violated the Children’s Online Privacy Protection Act Rule.

Double whammy for epic games.

Edit: Had look into what is ,"Dark Pattern Practices" to understand FTC reasoning.


WhatTheZuck420 t1_jcfl0q1 wrote

every tech bro uses dark patterns. here:

update? now. ask me later.

where is never?


UnfinishedProjects t1_jcfx1fw wrote

You'll need to update in order to continue using their services, it's in the contract you signed while signing up for the account. They don't want unsecure, out of date accounts compromising the safety of their websites.


alexreffand t1_jcg2y0p wrote

Don't need to update to continue using Windows, but they'll sure make it look like you do. And of course I'm going to be reluctant to update my operating system when "feature" updates are bundled in with those vital security updates. It's always a coin flip on whether the next update will break something or quietly revert my settings. Though, a better example of this practice in windows is during account creation. If you want a local account in Windows 10 (not a Microsoft account), you need to jump through so many hoops because it's a hidden option. They made it harder and harder to not use a Microsoft account. In windows 11 the option is just gone.


fockyou t1_jch12ip wrote

You do understand why software is updated and why it's not always the best idea to use very outdated software... Right?


alexreffand t1_jchwbd0 wrote

Dude i even called security updates vital. If you're that intent on missing the point, I've got nothing else to say to you.


Math-NotEvenOnce t1_jcftifd wrote

Looking at this very casually, this is approximately 5% of the earnings from FORTNITE for one year.

Not 5% of Epic's earnings.
Not 50% of Fortnites earnings.

If you make 50k a year, this is comparable to a 2500 fine. But don't forget in this scenario you are just one person living in a mansion already so it doesn't really matter.


calipygean t1_jcfhhnv wrote

Quick question do the people who were impacted get a portion of the settlement or does it just go in the US govs coffers?


send-dunes t1_jcfz9uf wrote

Per the article you are commenting on: "FTC will use the money to provide refunds to customers. Consumers who believe they may have been injured by Epic’s practices can visit for more information on the refund process."


drawkbox t1_jcg8ch7 wrote

They definitely had some schemes, also why they wanted their own store to pull more of this.

> In a complaint announced in December as part of a settlement package with Epic, the FTC said that Epic deployed a variety of design tricks known as dark patterns aimed at getting consumers of all ages to make unintended in-game purchases. Fortnite’s counterintuitive, inconsistent, and confusing button configuration led players to incur unwanted charges based on the press of a single button. The company also made it easy for children to make purchases while playing Fortnite without requiring any parental consent. According to the FTC’s complaint, Epic also locked the accounts of customers who disputed unauthorized charges with their credit card companies.

The most egregious part

> According to the FTC’s complaint, Epic also locked the accounts of customers who disputed unauthorized charges with their credit card companies.

I love Unreal Engine, Epic Games needs to stop messing around before they ruin it.


terrymr t1_jchvu00 wrote

>According to the FTC’s complaint, Epic also locked the accounts of customers who disputed unauthorized charges with their credit card companies.

There's far too much of this going on. All kinds of service providers will ban you from their platform for any chargebacks. Kind of negates the protection that you're paying for with a credit card.


Gojogab t1_jcf260e wrote

And Walmart, for charging for Walmart plus for online purchases.


BedditTedditReddit t1_jcflwv3 wrote

Is this the same epic ceo who tried to take on apple? If so seems he's earned enough L's to be given the boot.


Quentin-Code t1_jcfn2bw wrote

Yes, remember, he was “”fighting for the people””. What a joke. Epic wants the money, that’s normal for a company but they aren’t honest with it.


iceleel t1_jchq4yf wrote

Apple is getting investigated in multiple countries. They'll get fucked outside Murcia.


Quentin-Code t1_jchuit4 wrote

The existence of shitty companies should not be an excuse to be shittier.


Adventurous_Ideal849 t1_jci3ifg wrote

Apple are the single biggest benefactor, in aggregate, of everything Epic just got slammed for so Epic couldn't exactly be shittier at this stuff. What they got fined is pocket change compared to what Apple is making from whales, geriatrics and children.


Alllitup1 t1_jcg48kh wrote

People who are honest about trying to make money are good business imo


GibbonFit t1_jch9o3i wrote

Except he owns just over 50% of the stock. Another 40% is owned by Tencent. And the rest by smaller investors. But the company is not publicly traded.


-Josh-- t1_jcijvze wrote

Now do TurboTax. Did me and my wife’s personal and small business taxes today. Their entire model seems to be to hide the cost until you’ve sunk four hours into putting stupid info in, at which point it’s too exhausting to even consider price shopping…


tohara1995 t1_jcghymp wrote

Wimpy ass fines.


DillyDoobie t1_jch4kwl wrote

Yeah, I feel like this is more like a tax than a fine. They probably still made profit off of this.


cwesttheperson t1_jcfdu0u wrote

Can any fortnight player elaborate on these dark patterns?


iceleel t1_jcfkoip wrote

They made it easy to buy content. Epic has done work to adjust store so each purchase requires player to have to hold button.


b0xtarts t1_jcg1z2k wrote

Yeah I totally noticed that… one click and it buys… no confirm or anything


skilliard7 t1_jcfkige wrote

Dark patterns are essentially a form of user interface design where you make the buttons you want the user to press more prominent than buttons you don't want them to press. For example the "buy now" button will be big and bright in the center, whereas the "no thanks" button would be in the corner and small in a less eye-catching color. The idea is users generally take the path of least resistance, so you can manipulate behavior by making it easier for the user to spend money.

In the case of Fortnite though, I'm not sure what in their interface is a dark pattern, I find it pretty clear that I'll be charged. But it's possible they may have changed it in response to the lawsuit before I started playing. Or maybe kids were just playing dumb to avoid getting in trouble for impulsively charging their parents cards. "I didn't know I was spending money!"


PizzaPeePee t1_jcfttod wrote

They changed it. But before iirc one of the things was that opening a item preview on console and purchasing the item are the same button, so if the ui is slow and you double tap X you might have bought something. With also no option for a refund and banning accounts if players or parents of players did chargebacks on their payment method


guri256 t1_jcgdi0e wrote

This is partly true, but kind of misses the point. Pushing users towards the path you want isn’t bad. If the options are “Wipe my Hard Drive” and “Nevermind” it might be good to put up enough roadblocks that the user needs to think to get through.

A “dark pattern” is when you are being evil/deceptive by pushing or tricking users into doing something they probably don’t want to do or is against their interest.

Of course this definition would include almost every single EULA. Those don’t count though, because corporate lawyers are very good at their job.


aroundtown t1_jcfi7ot wrote

Probably too busy having their moms tell them to clean their rooms


terrymr t1_jchw013 wrote

Sticking a big green download button on a webpage that doesn't link to the download but to some scam advertisement for example.


RabidHyenaSauce t1_jch0q70 wrote

Yeah, I was not surprised... I know this might be a bit too soon, but I think Mojang is next on the block. Could be wrong though


Loki-L t1_jchf28q wrote

This would affect Epic Games a lot more if their financials weren't insane anyway.

They have what appears at first glance a license to print money, but actually aren't a profitable company. They make hundreds of millions in revenue every year, but still aren't profitable.

I have no idea how that is working for them and if this will affect their bottom line and if their bottom line matters in any case.


MadDistrict t1_jcirxg1 wrote

Yet multiple hedge funds and banks take high level risks and crash the economy and they all get bailed out. What a world.


soulsurfer3 t1_jcjbulc wrote

Great. But where does this money go? Fines like this should go to support small businesses or causes like that. Of course they don’t and just go to more bureaucracy


psycho_driver t1_jcjgw6y wrote

Damn, there goes some of that paid exclusive money.


th37thtrump3t t1_jck3b8a wrote

Fortnite alone generates upwards of $5b for Epic per year.

This fine doesn't hurt them, it's just the cost of doing business.


BDoubleSharp t1_jcfir7c wrote

How do I get my refund?


ckociemba t1_jcfpup2 wrote

It literally says in the article you can get a refund at does no one read the article before they comment?


ellzray t1_jcfoy68 wrote

You don't. The government does.

It's not about making reparations. It's about making money.


WhatTheZuck420 t1_jcfktl3 wrote

who gets the $245M?


send-dunes t1_jcfzol7 wrote

Per the article you are commenting on: "FTC will use the money to provide refunds to customers. Consumers who believe they may have been injured by Epic’s practices can visit for more information on the refund process."


Xboxgamer147 t1_jcfpy3k wrote

They do the same “dark pattern” when getting the free games. They make it seem like you have to check a box to complete the transaction, when it’s actually to subscribe to the developers newsletters. Glad this got attention. Shame on Epic.