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jphamlore t1_iu63zoh wrote

So is Europe going to have a recharging solution in 13 years for people living in apartments who own EVs, or is it going to be a feature that many will be forced to give up the idea of owning a car?


botfiddler t1_iu67xqp wrote

You would "only" need a regular power outlet in the parking space, since it can load all night. Same for the workplace, though one would probably be enough. Additionally the local grid would need to be strong enough, but this could partially be mitigated with some sort of locally installed flywheel accumulators. A important aspect is, that people in cities are probably going to have fewer cars in the future and will travel more per bike, roller or public transportation, if they don't work from home in the first place. Also keep in mind, that this is only about new cars. So it is not necessary to have power outlets for every car in 13 years, for that it's rather around 25-30 then.


deridius t1_iu6iaun wrote

I’m an electrician and usually wire is ran in parking lots for the lighting so why not just lay an extra pipe for charging. Literally just that simple.


[deleted] t1_iu7nwhq wrote



ChinesePropagandaBot t1_iu8h3no wrote

A slow charging car uses roughly the same as a running fridge I believe. Do you'd need to make some minor changes to your wiring, but nothing that can't be done.


DonQuixBalls t1_iu9kxdl wrote

More like a hair dryer, but it's still easy to pick up 5-10 miles of charge per hour. 50-100 miles of added range overnight is doable for many drivers.


Chupitomiculito t1_iu6adr0 wrote

Don’t regular power outlets barely charge the vehicles, like -a few percentages over night, this wouldn’t be enough for people that need to drive daily


neuracnu t1_iu6cbja wrote

The definition of a "regular" power outlet can vary (how many amps are on the circuit, is it dedicated to car charging or is there other hot stuff on it as well, etc).

Also, a lot depends on the size of the car and the amount of travel you expect to do on a given day. If charging overnight on a 20 amp circuit gives you 50 miles of driving (and your commute is less than 25 miles each way), then the "regular" charger may be all that you need.

Technology Connections made a wonderful, long-form video about this exact thing:


project23 t1_iu7bi4i wrote

I love Technology Connections. He deep dives into such strange stuff and gives it a good honest go to be precise and informative.


Chupitomiculito t1_iu6d3rb wrote

Seems like a great resource I’ll have to watch today after work. Appreciate the explanation since I’ve just started looking at an EV as my next vehicle so trying to understand practicality.


Dr4kin t1_iu6vtyp wrote

The short version is: charging speed matters less and less if your car is plugged in long enough and when it isn't driven far. If you come home with 100km missing even a slow charger is going to fill up your car in the hours you're at home.


Brosie-Odonnel t1_iu6emey wrote

Generally it’s 4-5 miles per hour plugged into a 110 outlet. It takes a while if you’re in a hurry but plugged in overnight for 8-12 hours is plenty good for most driving.


KirothCH t1_iu6gmoh wrote

don't forget the 220-240 outlets in EU


Brosie-Odonnel t1_iu6of2s wrote

Great point! It’s nice to have a level 2 charger but it’s not completely necessary. There’s usually a charger near most places we visit and it works out just fine not having a faster charger at home.


botfiddler t1_iu6aoir wrote

Depends on the size of the vehicle, and it's not just a small percentage.


jnemesh t1_iu6v29s wrote

Fun fact: Most of Europe uses 220v for "regular" it shouldn't be that big of an issue.


funandgames12 t1_iu65glz wrote

I’m sure complexes will be happy to build in charging stations for a “small” raise in your monthly rent. I mean after all you need to drive and all cars are electric so what are you going to do ?

Either that or the tech to charge all cars battery’s fully in 10 mins needs to exist. Kinda like what we have now with gas stations


drgrizzly24 t1_iu7oqtk wrote

I think instead of a raise in rent to they will charge for the electricity used and some more to recoup the costs of installing the charger


[deleted] t1_iub5hsw wrote

Apartment complexes are like "Why not both?"


drgrizzly24 t1_iucm7xz wrote

Don’t know about that cause they will face competition from other rental apartment complexes for that


Charming_Oven t1_iu6bhey wrote

The only thing that people have been forced to do is live under the tyranny of car dominated infrastructure, which has been the determinate cause of suburbs without density and the loss of connected communities without even mentioning the overwhelming cause of climate change


Jalal_Adhiri t1_iu6hokk wrote

At least in Europe they are more diversified than US so the transition mught be easier


Spare_Industry_6056 t1_iu6c61o wrote

This is a super easy fix. They're called gas stations, but they use a different type of fuel.

Seriously, you're nit picking. Compared to the problem they address, this is lame.


in2q21 t1_iu7q1ux wrote

the difference is 30 mins charge against 5 minutes in gas stations. All would be better if mr Elon Decided didn't decided hydrogen is not cool


Dinokknd t1_iu8566g wrote

The key is better public transportation and bicycles. No need to charge a car if you don't need to own a car.

Also. ICE vehicles aren't banned, you can still get second-hand models.


DonQuixBalls t1_iu9lg9n wrote

He didn't decide it, he just recognized it. Hydrogen is a dead end pushed almost exclusively by the fossil fuel companies selling it.


Spare_Industry_6056 t1_iu7t97g wrote

Contemplate the thousands and thousands of dollars saved by an EV over ICE, getting a coffee or a quick lunch once a week while you charge up isn't really a world ender.


zeoslap t1_iu6ej76 wrote

You don't necessarily need to charge at home if you're able to charge at typical destinations, parking lots for example which would be relatively straightforward to upgrade.

A lot can happen in 15 years.


nativechaparral t1_iu6jfhk wrote

Car ownership is not the same in Europe as it is in USA. They generally have great public transportation and don’t need a car. A majority of Europeans are not car owners or they only have 1 car per family.


crazicus t1_iu6lfea wrote

Is it the worst thing in the world to not own a car?


kingjasko96 t1_iu6dyzv wrote

Mate Rimac, founder and CEO of Rimac Automobili said in an interview with a Croatian youtube car channel that the longterm plan is for cars to become less accessible to ordinary folk and that majority of people won't even own a car, take whatever you want from that. :D


poke133 t1_iu8xuat wrote

you don't have a gas station in front of your flat.

so.. parking lots of super markets/office buildings/commercial spaces. they're empty and useless right now.

it will also boost their business probably, so there's an incentive on their part to accommodate EVs.

there you go, solved.


DonQuixBalls t1_iu9lskp wrote

Some European cities have charging on the street lamps. Easy solution since the power is already there.


That-shouldnt-smell t1_iu693fe wrote

No. I'm guessing they will just require people to do it, expect business to cover the costs, and fine or jail all those whom do not.


jtmackay t1_iu6f1jg wrote

Why is it so hard for people to understand how easily this small problem is solved? The apartments install chargers and charge you for the electricity... Just like they do for gas and everything else.


REOreddit t1_iu9r3lo wrote

Are you aware that not all apartment buildings have parking spaces?


FacelessFellow t1_iu9rhlj wrote

But the tenants have cars??


REOreddit t1_iu9rjw0 wrote

They park on the street.


FacelessFellow t1_iu9sce8 wrote

Is there enough street parking? For all the tenants?


REOreddit t1_iu9su2l wrote

It depends on the area. Some people park their cars on nearby newer buildings that have a surplus of parking spaces, so not everybody parks on the street, but plenty do.


snap-erection t1_iudaikp wrote

Are you aware that things aren't great for a vast number of people on the planet?


FacelessFellow t1_iudfvur wrote

Well people complaining about parking usually aren’t the poorest.


snap-erection t1_iudh1d1 wrote

Dude we're not talking about people who live in a trashcan ok? They couldn't give a rat's ass about cars or petrol prices. There's lots of people even with jobs that are pretty poor, and they need to have a car to get anywhere also, and their shit landlords didn't actually build any parking but they have to park wherever they can.

And even if they are complaining about parking, they still can't run a 200m cable across the street to their car to charge it. None of this is "solved", like people here like to comment, just because they just thought of it 5 minutes ago.


Sigtau1312 t1_iu6eont wrote

How do you recharge your ICE vehicle today in the apartment? By going to the gas station. You can always recharge at a charger similar to visiting the gas station…


Lumpyyyyy t1_iu665l4 wrote

Do you have a gas station at your house?


snap-erection t1_iudaut2 wrote

No, just on every damn block. There's one literally around the corner from where I live, and another 1 minute in the other direction, and another 2 minutes in another direction etc. Plus it takes ages to charge a car. Yeah 30 minutes over a coffee won't kill you yadda yadda, except you get there and everyone is waiting to plug in their car. Have you ever been at a gas station? They're not always empty, sometimes you stand in line and even though pumping petrol is way fast people still take their stupid long time.


PoorPDOP86 t1_iu67tyc wrote

Yeah, take the bus and the train commoner. That's the solution. Environmental Classism. Basically the roads will become the future version of the Moscow Ring with your betters in the new fangled ZiL Lanes, know your role and your place for the good of Mother Earth peasants.

I'm obviously exaggerating but not an awful lot.


Cutecumber_Roll t1_iu6c0sx wrote

"A developed nation is not a place where the poor own cars, but where the rich use public transportation."


Yotsubato t1_iu6ihpf wrote

If the transit is like that in Japan, Sweden, Germany, sure. If it’s like NYC, SF, LA. Nope.


crazicus t1_iu6l9qh wrote

Public transit is perfectly usable in NYC and SF, and in a lot of other cities too. Here in Boston, a third of households don’t even own a car


Cutecumber_Roll t1_iu7esnk wrote

New York has the best public transit in the US and it's still mediocre compared to the the rest of the world.


crazicus t1_iu7h24i wrote

This honestly just feels like an excuse. NYC’s system is perfectly usable and one of the few in the world with 24/7 runtime. Every transit system has its issues, those in the US especially, but it works.


rastilin t1_iu69qxe wrote

I know you're being sarcastic, but I'm super ok with your horrific dystopian future.


crazicus t1_iu6foun wrote

Cars are already “environmental classism”. Poor people are much less likely to own a car, and much more likely to be negatively impacted by cars. Freeways are built through lower income neighborhoods, busy streets go through the same, killing poorer people at disproportionate rates, and poorer people are more likely to feel the impacts of climate change.

Not to mention that even among poor people who do drive, transportation is a much larger percentage of their budget than richer people due to the high cost of car ownership. Parking mandates also raise the price of homes and goods, passed along to poor people that don’t own cars.


shadow1515 t1_iu6d43o wrote

It's not that unprecedented...US states totaling something like a third of the country's population already have similar laws on the books, don't they?


project23 t1_iu7aibb wrote

> 'without precedent'

I'm not in the EU but I think it has something to do with EU law. It is is just a legal term. Something along the lines of 'this EU law is above individual member national laws'. (please correct me if I'm wrong)


Fuzzl t1_iu6anof wrote

Solar on the roof, battery powered house and car charged by solar could make a great difference. Its a great start but we still have a long way to go.


Kukaac t1_iu80ul3 wrote

Unfortunately the battery tech is not there yet. Most of the European grid is struggling with solar and burning coal when there is no or low production.


Fuzzl t1_iu866s3 wrote

Give it 10 years and it will be.


42Pockets t1_iu6c7mi wrote

Honestly it's probably better for the economy just to pay for everyone's electricity when they Park through taxes. What are people doing? Going to work? Picking up kids? Give a certain amount free and then any excess is what we pay back.


FearlessDragon2022 t1_iu6ckc9 wrote

So now it's a good time to buy a Ford Mustang Shelby GT500, right?


Amckinstry t1_iu7y2w4 wrote

As a collectible, sure.

But as gas is phased out, actually driving it ceases to be realistic.


skellener t1_iu636vl wrote

2030 would be better.


swisstraeng t1_iu82ql6 wrote

While electric cars are cleaner, we must remember that the car itself as a concept is horribly unoptimized.

To me, making electric cars mandatory just pushes the problem further. You're still moving 1.5t of steel for a 80kg human being and his groceries.

The main issue isn't the ICE cars, it's that our current society needs them. I can't think of many people that say "Hell yeah I'm gonna get stuck in traffic jams for 2h while going to work".

Pretty sure people would move closer to jobs if they could even afford rent....

Sure it's great that we're changing to electric, but it's still not as good as what things could be if we were to design cities with efficient public transports. Not mentioning that electric cars have a high upfront cost and that battery productions may not always follow.

I mean,

The best car is the one we never need to use.


elictronic t1_iu6benl wrote

Stupid hysterical titles. Cars and Vans not all vehicles. Unless we are considering trucks, 4 wheelers, big rigs, airplanes.


snap-erection t1_iudb2ve wrote

So that makes for 90% of vehicles though right?


elictronic t1_iuid4kg wrote

Lets say sure, because I don't feel like looking up EU vehicle sales by specific models.
Most people only read the headline especially on articles that are paywalled. From that headline I infer that 'ALL' new vehicles will be electric by 2035. The without precedent really brings that home, not 90%, or all vehicles under some weight, or all consumer grade vehicles or whatever other delineation.

Why does this matter, because I am really getting tired of explaining to idiots in real life why their truck, big rig, boat, or other major piece of equipment isn't being taken away from them in the next 5 years, and their panties can be untwisted.

This shit actually matters, and articles like these are causing hysterics that then lead to people voting against policies that make sense. Considering the Washington Post is a legitimate news source it is doubly annoying.


Zagrebian t1_iu754r8 wrote

Way too late. We need to invent cars that run by pumping carbon out of the air.


Bambamtams t1_iu8ko39 wrote

Nuclear energy seems to be the plan.


RejZoR t1_iu9wowe wrote

That's over a decade away. That's like saying "water will still be wet in 2035". Pointless statement.

At prices EV cars are being sold now, they are just not feasible. Every even most basic one cists 30k €. Unless EV's will cost the same as petrol cars cost now, good luck with full switch to EV's till 2035.


aintbroke_dontfixit t1_iuayjmm wrote

Unprecendented within the EU maybe but the UK has already implemented it.


darklink594594 t1_iu7asv2 wrote

My hybrid is 5 years old at 128k miles and I already have to replace the battery at $6,000 amd I still owe $5000. Idk if electric batteries are any better but that's already a huge problem. I'm sticking with fuel efficient gas cars for now

Edit: idk what's up with the downvotes.. but this is my experience. They only warranty 100k miles which is not a lot anymore and I'm faced with having to spend all this money on a car I still owe on. I was really excited to get a hybrid


VexatiousJigsaw t1_iu7h1jh wrote

That is strange. Which model of hybrid are you referring to? My hybrid turned 10 this year so I began budgeting a new battery while it is still working and I came up with $2k before taxes and shipping.

Can you find your model on this website?


darklink594594 t1_iu7hazw wrote

It's a '17 sonota and I was thinking of getting it from there but I ended up finding one for $1100 after shipping on ebay with only 50k miles on it. And the dealer said they can install it for $1.3k. An oem battery is almost $4k. But I didn't expect for it to go out so soon. And most gas cars get the same mpg as my 5 year old hybrid now so it feels like diminishing returns for me. I drive 30k a year with my commute alone so I'd rather have a gas car where the 2 big things that can go out is the engine and trans. Where a hybrid has that plus the battery


DonQuixBalls t1_iu9mcnm wrote

Hybrids are better than gas, but only juuust barely. Small savings for the added complexity.


darklink594594 t1_iu9n0sk wrote

They're great for in town but 90% of my driving is highway. And idk why I'm getting all the down votes I'm just expressing that I have to spend all this money on a new batterey for a car that I stoll owe thousands of dollars on, like this is a real thing that's happening to me and this is my experience lol


12kdaysinthefire t1_iu7m6ht wrote

This unprecedented plan is going to pair amazingly well with all of their unprecedented rolling brown outs and black outs.


user4517proton t1_iu7z8tq wrote

good luck with that. I'll enjoy watching the train wreck from here.


Sad_Ad2489 t1_iu6ap6j wrote

Great, and I don't doubt BEVs are much better for the enviroment compared to ICE vehicles. However, how are they powered? Can renewables scale up as fast? Could we achieve better returns on investment by upgrading house insulation and converting homes to electric heat? Should it start with commercial and government fleets?

While it seems good, it sounds like politicians making policy they don't understand and don't need to be responsible for personally...


Bensemus t1_iu6qrzg wrote

The great thing is they are just greener even on current power grids using fossil fuels. This is because ICE cars are just terrible. They set the bar extremely low. Renewables are also constantly being added as we expand our grids and not just because they are green either. They can also just be the cheaper option which makes it even easier to do.


Jaze_ca t1_iu67sjm wrote

But how are they going to produce all the electricity needed to run them?


funnysunflow3r t1_iu8192k wrote

The EU would really step up the game if it started helping landowners to produce small energy at home from wind and solar and directly distributing their energy to the grid.

Talk about wars, politics and freedom all you want. This would be real freedom.


AyBruhBee t1_iu69np7 wrote

Outsource Energy Production to Russia and resource gathering to Africa so no one sees all the icky fumes and they can think theyre saving the planet


mdielmann t1_iu6evq2 wrote

It's probably been said a million times before, but an electric car is less polluting than an ICE car, even if the electricity is generated from coal (the most polluting option). Also, the pollution won't be at street level in a densely populated area, so will have less immediate affects to the population, let alone the reduction of effects to the environment.


Twerkatronic t1_iu6anq2 wrote

How about hydrogen though? I can't read the article due to paywall


Dr4kin t1_iu6wun8 wrote

Hydrogen infrastructure is a lot more expensive and not as easily deployed as charging. You can charge an electric car on a regular wall outlet, but you need fuel stations for hydrogen. Hydrogen fuel cells are more expensive. Hydrogen cars are EV's with a smaller battery (yes they have batteries as buffer storage), but with the added cost of a fuel cell and tank. It is also a lot less efficient. You're only going with hydrogen when batteries can't hold enough energy.

No hydrogen isn't needing more funding to be more efficient. Hydrogen is still needed, but you are always going to convert energy more often than just charging a battery. Energy conversion isn't free, so it is always going to be less efficient.

EV's also have the added benefit that they could be used as grid buffer / storage when plugged in or as a backup for your house


SniperSRSRecon t1_iu6cgbl wrote

Ah yes. Make it so no one can drive because the power grid can’t handle it, russia controls the power, electric cars have no range and are way too expensive for 90% of people.


volkinaxe t1_iu67q8u wrote

good lick finding that much lithium


Bensemus t1_iu6r05d wrote

It’s really not hard. Australia is the leader in lithium mining (not China, which is actually 3rd and a quarter of Australia). The US is starting to develop its lithium reserves along with other countries. Tech is being worked on to reduce the cost of extracting lithium from salt water. It can also be extracted from geothermal plants.


AyBruhBee t1_iu69h0i wrote

Powered by 100% natural Russian Coal ♻️🌱


hgravesc t1_iu6e2i1 wrote

Even if that’s true, the efficiency of charging an electric car from the grid where fossil fuels are the main power source is still greater than that of an internal combustion engine.

I love how people make this comment as if it’s some kind of slam dunk when in reality you’re just admitting the fossil fuels are bad for the environment.