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waterbed87 t1_iu76nyx wrote

Reply to comment by therealzombieczar in EU approves effective ban on new fossil fuel cars from 2035 by Wagamaga

Ford Lightning? Others to come? Electric school buses are coming, I’m sure vans will still be a thing.

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therealzombieczar t1_iu7fva7 wrote

cost per mile plus longevity is of huge importance to agriculture as they have lots of miles to cover carrying heavy loads over rough terrain without high wattage available...

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waterbed87 t1_iu7ic6t wrote

And the electric truck from Ford in 2022 has 240 miles of range, considering how much they've improved in just the last ten I imagine by 2035 they will be exponentially better. 12 years is a long long time in the tech world.

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therealzombieczar t1_iu7j4gx wrote

it doesn't when towing/hauling or off road...

iv shoped these things, the tech isn't there... the battery replacements alone would set most ag into the red...

the improvements are happening fast, but as with most tech there's a burst and then it slows down, as you get closer to real physical limitations of a technology the harder it is to improve...

al;so very little of lithium batteries are actually recycled...

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waterbed87 t1_iu7jvya wrote

The tech isn't there, today. With some countries banning fossil fuels in cars the technology will continue to improve drastically over the coming years and charging stations will become as common as gas stations. I agree that Lithium Ion isn't great but we're working on replacements for those too.

2035 is a long ways away, have some faith in the technology catching up. All you're really doing is being pessimistic presuming the tech has gotten as good as it's going to get, I promise you that's not the case.

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therealzombieczar t1_iu7ky42 wrote

i just don't think batteriie driven vehicles is applicable in many scenarios...

why not just push for higher mpg?
diesel hybrids would work great for rural work, carry tons of millage and torque, get bio diesel tax breaks and bam carbon nuetral, more so than electric vehicles in many countries...

but out right banning ice is like banning gravel roads because they suck in the city...

i have the most hope for nuclear generated hydrogen, but i'm pretty alone on that it seems...

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waterbed87 t1_iu7ll04 wrote

I'd love to see higher MPG but unless someone forces them to do it automakers have no incentive to do it. I believe Obama had gotten some passed to force them to invest in more efficient vehicles but Trump cancelled them so here we are, now everyone is all-in on electric what do you do.

I think electric vehicles will become completely different animals by time ICE is getting phased out and if it's not up to certain jobs I'm sure exceptions will be made so farmers can still do their jobs until the technology catches up. I personally believe by 2035 we'll both be in awe at how far the tech has come but time will tell.

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therealzombieczar t1_iu7n35r wrote

the only reason electric vehicles exist as a consumer product is lithium batteries... which were invented in the 70's...

the governments can and do put a minimum average mpg on manufacturers, and that's all they need to do. picking a winner before theres competition is idiotic(and very typical of bureaucrats)

ice ban effectively bans hydrogen combustion/turbine... but i bet it doesn't ban steam driven...

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waterbed87 t1_iu7ndxe wrote

Look unless you can jump to 2035 and tell me how wrong I was this is a pretty pointless discussion at this point. I've agreed the tech isn't there and our primary difference is I believe it will catch up and you assume it won't. Time will tell nothing left to be said. If ICE is still required for certain working conditions it's not like the EU or other governments are going to go 'tough shit guess we all starve', exceptions will be made.

But as I said, I think we'll be in awe of what 2035 electric vehicles are like compared to 2022 ones and it's well known that Lithium Ion isn't the solution forever which is why huge investments are being made in alternatives.

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therealzombieczar t1_iu7nzoi wrote

my point is with the exception of digital/virtual tech nothing improves that fast...

the electric car was first in circulation in the 1920's...

however hydrogen, bio diesel and ethanol are all refuelable with a much higher energy density than batteries. and that is unlikely to change.

still have high hopes for hydrogen fual cell..

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waterbed87 t1_iu7on48 wrote

It does improve that fast. In 2010 the Tesla Roadster got 240 miles of range and it's performance was 0-60 in 4s. In 20202 the Tesla Model S gets 400 miles of range and 0-60 in 2s Double or Nearly doubled in both metrics. I'm confident by 2035 there will be electric trucks with like 500+ miles of range and like 200-250 towing which will be comparable to ICE and if fast charging takes 20 minutes today it will probably take like 10 by then.

Regardless this is still pointless, I really don't want to argue about hypotheticals. Time will tell, if the tech doesn't catch up ICE will stick around to fill in the gaps until it does. If something better than Electric comes along we'll see a shift to that instead eventually. The world isn't going to end because ICE gets completely or mostly phased out.

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