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Fallacies_TE t1_iy0elbb wrote

That's just a dehumidifier...

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edgemint t1_iy0ji75 wrote

Yep, every. time.

I'm open to the idea that maybe someone can make a better dehumifidier at some point in the future, but any article that talks about "water from air" which doesn't acknowledge that dehumifidiers exist is automatically suspect in my books.

So I suspect that this is the usual project that hopes to rip off some people on Kickstarter or Indiegogo or wherever.

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Fallacies_TE t1_iy0kctl wrote

A better dehumidifier can't really exist physically, current technology is pretty dang efficient. Water is just incredibly energy intensive to phase change, which will always make taking water from the air high energy. Not to mention dehumidifiers work best at high humidity, and the places that are in drought are not humid places.

Ventures like this have tried and failed many times, it is not a viable solution now or ever.

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ahfoo t1_iy28k9b wrote

Well that last part is a bit hasty. I would agree that phase change systems are already well explored and it is true that high humidity (and temperatures) make dehumidification much more efficient. But it is also true that dehumidifiers in fact do work and can extact moisure from the air in significant quantities.

The scammy stuff in my opinion are the ones that claim to work with no energy input or passive water collectors. Those are gimmicks that only work in ideal circumstances and produce very little moisture and still require significant maintenance.

On the other hand, powering heavy duty compressors with renewable energy is a very different story. In this case, there is no question that the technology is effective and very real in the here and now. The catch in this latter case is the cost and that would include things like, for instance, tariffs that artificially increase those costs. I would say there is a big leap from something being too expensive in the current market snapshot to "This is not a viable solution and will never be." That's too big of a jump.

Moreover, a dehumidifier isn't engineered for maximzing water production, it is engineered to reduce humidity and it happens to create water as a waste product in this process. Simply looking at a compressor powered dehumidifier and saying that it is impractical for producing water at a large scale is a small-minded way of looking at the situation. That device is not intended for water production, it merely suggests an interesting possiblity.

With a large compressor and a very large condensor array coupled with dessicants there is no question that water can be extracted from desert air much like the scenario shown in in the Star Wars movies on the planet Tatooine. Making such systems affordable is a serious challenge but writing it off as completely impractical is going too far. Anyone with a dehumidifier can see that it's possible.

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E_Snap t1_iy04wwl wrote

This just moves the drought downwind…

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Royal_Aioli914 t1_iy0fnvx wrote

They have these already on the market. Perhaps these researchers are doing something different, but I have a hard time seeing how they'll overcome the constraints of the existing tech. Those are: Tons of power draw per gallon of water produced. Variable efficiency depending on relative humidity, temperature, and other weather conditions. Huge startup cost.

The result. Rich people in the Sonoran desert drawing huge amounts of power to create only enough water to drink (not enough to farm).

The effect. Subsidized (by the general population) power to support some weirdo in the desert who has too much money and not very good critical thinking abilities.

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ahfoo t1_iy28pui wrote

If the power is from a renewable resources such as solar, then what's the problem? Obviously the costs are a huge challenge, but if someone wanted to invest in such a system then why would it be immoral or make them a "weirdo" to do so? That's a strong value judgement with little justification.

You use the term "drawing" huge amounts of power as if it has to be extracted from somebody else as if they were vampires sucking the blood of their neighbors. If the power is from the sun, why should it be anybody's concern?

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Royal_Aioli914 t1_iy4xgs4 wrote

Well. It isn't being drawn from renewable resources, nor will it be in the near future. Renewables are great, but there are a lot of hurdles to overcome if we want to use renewables for all of our energy. In the US, all of the industry, manufacturing, etc. alone will need coal/natural gas plants for some time. We just simply cannot get enough renewable energy out of our available methods. That doesn't mean we shouldn't push towards that of course, but this is a whole different topic.

It is weird to burn a bunch of natural gas and coal to produce a gallon of water in the middle of a desert. And only rich folk can afford to do so.

We all share the energy infrastructure in the US. It is regional, but it is a shared UTILITY. Huge draws of power increase the cost of electricity for everyone, not just the consumer of said power (to some extent, some power companies will charge you more if you have large surges). If you ever work with a power company commercially, you would understand that unnecessary power consumption raises the costs for everyone.

There is simply not enough solar power available to meet our energy needs (nor will there ever be unless we CONSUME LESS POWER) and because your argument hinges on this, I don't know what to tell you..

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Royal_Aioli914 t1_iy51ik5 wrote

Imagine our power needs if we can't export as much of our manufacturing/industry to China or other countries as easily (who are also burning some dirty). Tag in electric vehicles. We just consume so much freaking power as a single country that it's just wild to think that it ISN'T immoral to draw a bunch of power to get a gallon of water in the middle of the desert.

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LightInthewater t1_iy1dk15 wrote

Hold on here. I've seen hwo this plays out in the anime One Piece.

Stay the fuck out of our clouds, Crocodile.

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anti-torque t1_iy0qcvv wrote

Aren't we about a decade beyond this level of tech, just with what te UN has been doing in Peru?

It's not even a better mousetrap, from what I can see.

The headline makes it sound like Climeworks, but it's just something people already do.

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Netplorer t1_iy0uxco wrote

Is it time for this shit again ? Who is doing a startup to rip a few mill off this time ?

Starting to feel like a nigerian prince letter at this point.

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nokinship t1_iy26ex4 wrote

It magically won't be feasible in California though because of "the environment".

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ahfoo t1_iy29ihk wrote

In fact, I've discussed this with the Planning Department in San Diego and they were very excited about the idea and offered to work with me on the permits if I was serious about installing the equipment. So, that's a bit of a real-world counterpoint to the California hate. I think California is overly regulated on many fronts but if you actually sit down with the regulators they're not necessarily your enemy.

For most of California, though, desalination is the way to go. It's only in the far eastern deserts that an alternative could gain a foothold and with tariffs on solar nothing based on renewable energy is going to happen in any case.

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Captain_N1 t1_iy6ylco wrote

those country bumpkins must be dumb, who farms moisture on a desert planet with 2 suns....

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[deleted] t1_iy04bml wrote

[deleted]

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Bo_Jim t1_iy16016 wrote

California has more than 800 miles of coastline. They can get far more water from desalination then they can from any form of condensation technology.

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