SkySchemer t1_ixx0lbh wrote on November 27, 2022 at 1:13 AM

Reply to comment by moknine1189 in Electric-vehicle charging stations could use as much power as a small town by 2035 — and the grid isn't ready by Sorin61

>The grid as it exists today has taken into account running them both simultaneously.

The grid doesn't directly care how efficient something is. It only cares about how much power is being drawn. A central AC is roughly 3 to 5kW. A dryer is roughly 2 to 5kW. That's 5 to 10 kW, and a level 2 EV is right in the middle of that range. So, by your statement, "the grid" can handle EV's charging at night, since it can already handle AC+dryer during the day.

>Programming vehicles to charge between any times doesn't guarantee that it will always be so, again what you are describing is an ideal situation. Even with programming you cannot guarantee that the day wont ever come that people wont charge their vehicles during peak hours. This is not due to stupidity, maliciousness, arrogance, or anything of the sort. It may come in the form of an emergency where people may have to evacuate, or other unprecedented scenarios. Think about it like this if there is ever a situation where you think you might lose power are you really going to wait to charge your vehicle?

Of course it's no guarantee, but money is a powerful motivator. Yes, we have accidentally charged our car during mid-peak hours, which costs me not quite double what off-peak costs. Of course mistakes like that will happen, but so what? Every EV owner is not going to make this same mistake at the same time. You keep insisting that the grid needs to plan for this extremist nonsense. And I say, no, it doesn't. That would be throwing tons of infrastructure money away, overdesigning for a theoretical edge case with a likeliness of occurrence so low that it may as well be zero. That is not how you do capacity design.

As for emergencies...so what? If I lose power, guess what? The battery in my car still holds its charge. And unlike an ICE vehicle, it doesn't consume a significant amount power while idling in traffic (an ICE engine burns roughly 1/4 to 1/2 gallon per hour while idling). Remember that big snowstorm in the NE? EV's, it turns out, did just fine. More than fine.

If a storm is coming, maybe I'll charge to 80% even if I'm not down very much. So what? That's going to be a really short charging session. Or, if I am especially worried, maybe I'll take the extra hour and go to 90% so give me more usable miles. Most ICE car owners will also gas up to a full tank, too. It's the same strategy, only I don't have to wait in line to do it.

If it's a sudden disaster, like an earthquake? The car is the last thing I am worried about.

You're way too lost in whataboutism.

>far as trusting you goes I'm having a hard time doing so (I'm not sure if you truly meant kW or kWh two different things one is power the other is energy you consume energy and power is the rate in which you consume that energy it seems they may have gotten mixed up)

The "7 to 8 kWh" figure I used for Level 2 charger, stating kWh instead of kW, was a simple typo. I know those are unusual on the internet, but there you go.

>If any of it gives you FUD that's because life is that way there are many things we don't know such as how the future will play out, there is a lot of uncertainty in reality, and doubt is something we all deal with everyday. Ignoring the facts doesn't make any of that go away.

It's FUD because it's based on hypotheticals and extreme cases. Read that third article you linked to, again. The grid is able to handle current adoption rates. There is plenty of time to plan for years from now, when adoption rates will be forced to accelerate further. Money has been allocated for exactly that purpose.

moknine1189 t1_ixxg7xn wrote on November 27, 2022 at 3:22 AM

The grid may not directly care about efficiency of individual components but to the system as a whole makes a huge difference. A 5kW dryer that's only 80% efficient will actually consume 6.25kW of power (imagine if that was the case for 1000 house holds that would be equivalent to 6.25MW of power, thats something that cant be ignored) the fact that things are more efficient helps a fuckton.

Also I never argued that the grid cannot handle EVs charging at night I'm not even sure how you came to that conclusion, once again the grid cannot withstand the worst case scenario of most consumers charging EVs during peak hours. Once Again if you read my original comment I was referring to the infrastructure upgrades to the substations that feed power to neighborhoods/homes to meet the increased demand. Also as far as need to be able to supply all that power I never said it was actually necessary to do that but the system but rather the grid needs to be either powerful enough to meet the peak demand or have safeguards in place to prevent critical faults/failures that would cause interruption of service to customers.

As far as the "Typo" goes its not just that you put kWh where it should of been kW. You incorrectly stated that your car charged 30kW in 5 hours that sentence does not make sense. I even explained the difference between kWh and kW (you can charge at a rate of 30kW for a period of 5hrs, giving you a total charge of 5 x 30 x 3600 doing this will give you the energy stored in your batteries in kWh (kWh is how batteries are measured or AmpHrs if know the voltage and divide by it).

As far as my hypothetical FUD goes: its not really a hypothesis if its happened. Electric grids have failed before, we have had natural disasters which have caused people to panic, and there's been too many examples of failures of infrastructures that have caused plenty of harm and property damage (I'm only here fighting to prevent it yet its FUD...). Once again if the information that I present to you gives you FUD that's a you problem, where I come from its simply reality.

I also like to point out you have tried multiple times to deflect from arguments by using words like FUD, whataboutism, and twisted my words to the point of calling people stupid. If you truly believe that these scenarios are as improbable as you believe them to be please articulate as to why you believe that to be the case. Saying we have this one fits all solution of just charge vehicles at night is complete BS. you yourself admitted there maybe a situation where youd charge during peak hours I wonder how many people will have the same thought during the same emergency? My point always was that you must have a plan to account for the worst case because thats when shit hits the fan not during "ideal scenarios".