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Rezhio t1_iy1t5jj wrote

So when are people going to wake up and realize it's all a big Ponzi scheme?


MechaSheeva t1_iy1vocn wrote

I miss when it was about using crypto to pay for sketchy shit and not investing/speculation.


Rezhio t1_iy1vsb1 wrote

Most crypto are not even good for sketchy shit since all wallets can be traced.


iruleatlifekthx t1_iy2a1c7 wrote

It depends? There are cryptocurrencies available that are stricter on privacy that people are able to skirt the law with. Certainly not unheard of. But most of is true, and that's crypto was originally meant to be a currency that couldn't be controlled or manipulated by any one government entity, free to be used by the world over. It was not meant to skirt the law.


taradiddletrope t1_iy2vk8f wrote

“Stricter on privacy” is not the same as untraceable.

Tons of mf’s in jail right now that committed crimes before DNA was used in crime investigations who got caught with DNA evidence.


JViz t1_iy2hwie wrote

Use a coin built on privacy. Monero, Decred, Zcash, and Grin were all built to be private.

So.... people think I'm wrong? Why/how?


DevAway22314 t1_iy45ba3 wrote

It sounds like you're shilling coins more than giving legitimate suggestion. I've spent a decent amount of time on darknet market places and never heard of decred or grin. Zcash I think I've seen like once, maybe?

The biggest oddity is that you didn't suggest Monero, which has been the #1 privacy coin for the entire history of privacy coins. It's also the only one you could regularly use to buy "sketchy shit"


JViz t1_iy8phc0 wrote

That seems to have garnered me even more down votes. Whatever, c'est la vie.


JViz t1_iy45pjp wrote

I know this might seem odd, but I hadn't actually heard of Monero. I added it to the list.


[deleted] t1_iy1ymfj wrote



promonk t1_iy28djj wrote

Are you referring to the $32 million he contributed to Democratic election funds, or the $24 million he contributed to Republican election funds? 'Cause it kind of sounds like you're trying to make this about Dems vs. Repubs, and from where I'm sitting, neither looks very clean.


phonafona t1_iy276cf wrote

It’s not a Ponzi scheme those last longer. He wasn’t paying out people with new investments he was just stealing all the investments.


optagon t1_iy3gx6m wrote

I have a coworker who's still saying bitcoin is the solution to the financial problem, and the inflation is the banks faults and they must be stopped. If onlyyyyy everyone would start using bitcoin all problems will be sorted out.

I'm always at a loss and just walk away.


jdmgto t1_iy556tc wrote

Bitcoin is massively deflationary and that just freezes the money supply in the other direction.

Crypto bros are just gold bugs 2.0.


Kedama t1_iy293q4 wrote

US Dollars are used for ponzi schemes too, but that doesnt make the dollsr complicit in that bullshit. Blame the people, not the tech


xdissent t1_iy2gor1 wrote

What percentage of all dollar transactions would you say are ponzis? (minuscule) What percentage of crypto transactions are ponzis? (a lot, more revealed every day) The difference is oversight and regulation. Show me a non-fraud use case for the tech that has value other than buying drugs or weapons, which basically doesn't even happen anymore since the markets are so unstable.


bamfalamfa t1_iy1v442 wrote

something tells me you arent living a rugged libertarian lifestyle in a cabin in the mountains raising your own livestock and growing your own crops


Rezhio t1_iy1v96p wrote

Because I do not believe in crypto but don't live by myself in the wood that makes me an hypocrite?


WolverineDifficult95 t1_iy1vxni wrote

Wait til you realize the USA just is FTX with a military that can’t even beat Afghanistan.


Rezhio t1_iy1w358 wrote

Good thing I'm no American. Also can't beat Afghanistan is bullshit because if they wanted they could turn the country to glass.


WolverineDifficult95 t1_iy1w8w9 wrote

Can’t turn someone to glass when you have rules of engagement. America would never fight a war like that because the outrage here would implode us instantly.


[deleted] t1_iy1xbju wrote



WolverineDifficult95 t1_iy1y9hz wrote

Americans here are furious when someone insinuates we are anything less than gods gift to earth and our money is not the most sacrosanct pact ever made backed by a military that has never failed and possesses absolute power over the planet.


didsomebodysaymyname t1_iy26mx5 wrote

I think people just accurately assessed your opinion was idiotic because you think USA=FTX, not because they shove flags up their own ass.

I don't think the US is the most sacrosanct whatever, I can just tell the difference between a corrupt nation-state and a ponzi scheme.

Rome lasted for centuries. Ponzi schemes last years.


WolverineDifficult95 t1_iy3roya wrote

Apparently you can’t tell the difference because social security is a textbook ponzi scheme. Newer deposits are being used to pay older investors.

Last time I checked Rome wasn’t running a Ponzi scheme like the USA is.


didsomebodysaymyname t1_iy56m4e wrote

You either don't understand how a Ponzi scheme works or how SS works or both.

The fundamental problem with a Ponzi scheme is that there's no actual business that's generating wealth.

But with SS there is real wealth generation, the entire US workforce. In a sense, the US workforce is the "business" that generates wealth for the retired. They do not (normally) put your SS payments in a bank for 40 years, they give them directly to retirees.

So literally the only way for SS to not have money to pay retirees something is if everyone is unemployed.

A ponzi scheme can run out of investors to buy in.

Do you think the US can reach 100% unemployment?

It is true that benefits can drop if there aren't enough workers making enough money, but the only way SS can completely fail is for no one to be employed. It should be obvious why that isn't going to happen.


belouie t1_iy20hx8 wrote

Funny because it sounds like you’re describing a 2008 righty, but you’re actually describing a 2022 lefty


Noah-Buddy t1_iy1nycn wrote

A little disappointed they didn't provide a link to the original Coindesk article.


firefox_2010 t1_iy1tdmq wrote

Yup, basically it’s just a tip of a real story, nothing much is written and the headline is a clickbait lol.


Noah-Buddy t1_iy24cmx wrote

IKR. "Two intrepid journalists break monumental story" ... fails to describe/mention story.


firefox_2010 t1_iy29txa wrote

It’s almost a beginning of a very interesting investigation then sort of stop and there is no more information. And it’s on a reputable site, not a blog lol. The writer is being lazy and just submit the quota of the week assignments.


Sip_py t1_iy24g0l wrote

And honestly that felt like it could have been a much longer piece that just ended kind of abruptly. I would love a long form, Texas monthly style expose on this.


Kinexity t1_iy26urp wrote

TLDR: Ponzi. If it's not Ponzi, believe it or not, still Ponzi. It's crypto after all.


TheNotGirthyAuthor t1_iy2uhov wrote

A Ponzi scheme would have lasted longer, because new money invested pays old investors cashing out.

This was just theft and/or fraud. A scam that funneled money directly into the scammer’s pockets.


jdmgto t1_iy570v0 wrote

The underlying problem was more fraud than Ponzi. Basically people were putting money and coins into theirbFTX accounts. The money was just supposed to stay there. It didn't. SBF gave it to Alameda to gamble. Which is uh, SUPER illegal.

When the market went south they lost it all. Turns out most of what they had left was FTT tokens, their own token they just magic'd out of thin air and wash traded to get the value they needed. When people realized some of what was going on there was a run on FTX to withdraw money which required FTX to sell FTT by the truckload. FTT went to zero, and now FTX has nothing.

Don't worry though, Sam and his buddies siphoned millions directly out of FTX's accounts to buy houses and all kinds of things. Also super illegal.


TheNotGirthyAuthor t1_iy5h1dm wrote

I have to imagine some of the assets can be seized (such as the properties they bought), but I’ve also heard a lot of the money was gambled away on other crypto. It will be interesting to see what happens going forward, and if the founders will be facing any criminal charges in the future.

One of the questions that nobody seems to be asking is why/how respected investors such as Kevin O’Leary were fooled by Sam and FTX. From what I understand, there were lots of warning signs and red flags that should have scared informed investors away. How were these seasoned investors fooled, and did any of them knowingly benefit from the FTX fiasco?


jdmgto t1_iy5u1zy wrote

Greed. That's it, it's greed. Sequia, Kevin, all of them were just horny for money. SBF wasn't a great conman, amazing fraudster, or brilliant guru. When asked for time to look over financials their response was "Fuck off," they didn't let sequoia have seats on the board. They basically said take it or leave it and they were all so horny for money they took it, and Sam took them.


TheNotGirthyAuthor t1_iy6ac19 wrote

I like how at least 3/5 of the sharks on Shark Tank have been involved in crypto scams and they still have the audacity to sneer at these other companies that make real products


jdmgto t1_iy7sxpv wrote

I’m about to be really dismissive but a huge part of being wealthy is getting very lucky with timing. You only know who Mark Cuban is because he sold off to Yahoo right before the dot com bubble burst. If he’d held out even a few more months he’d be managing a Wendy’s right now. Once you have a stupid amount of money it is incredibly difficult to not grow that pile of money because wealth compounds. Our society loves the Just World fallacy and if you’re rich that must mean you’re super smart or talented or deserve it in some way. How we’ve seen that’s clearly not the case. Elon Musk is currently imploding Twitter, Kevin O’Leary is Kevin O’Leary, in a lot of cases some terrible people got lucky and want to act like it was all their genius. Truth is they’re as stupid and greedy as anyone else.


Pontus_Pilates t1_iy2x1b7 wrote

Youtuber Coffeezilla interviewed a guy who claimed he offered the story to Bloomberg months ago, but they weren't interested. Who knows.

But there certainly seemed to be a Theranos level of willingess to crown this guy the next big business genius and not to dig too deeply.


[deleted] t1_iy2jgd8 wrote



ExcitedForNothing t1_iy4a8jm wrote

It is a pretty mediocre explanation of what went wrong with FTX/Alameda but it does have some interesting input from SBF himself about some shady wire transfers that he performed and an unnamed bank let him get away with what sounds like months.

That part gobsmacked me that there was a bank that would allow numerous account holders to perform wire transfers of the same size, daily to another country in another currency all to the same account. That shit should have been stopped and no matter the explanation not allowed to resume.


thedivinemonkey298 t1_iy3s0gm wrote

Looks like he donated enough money to the right people. This man should be in jail right now for the way he ran that company. There is no way for crypto to become the widely accepted and traded platform they want it to be when people like this are at the head, and we let them get away without any repercussions.


Only-Reach-3938 t1_iy30uhm wrote

Haha- damage control. They are fighting for their credibility as they have done almost zero investigative work, ever.


Big-Yogurtcloset2731 t1_iy35e8v wrote

Now everyone and their grandma are trying to take credit for bringing him down.


ImUrFrand t1_iy37h4d wrote

actual journalism can have a real impact, we don't see much of it anymore...

too many publishers afraid of stepping on their masters toes.


Fair_Department_4943 t1_iy2yieu wrote

I’m not crypto-versed, I saw this news of Sam Bang Friedman go bankruptcy spammed in media as the shock of the decade.

Why this guy had this impact on public opinion and what are the implications of his demise?


itdood t1_iy4923p wrote

>While there is nothing per se untoward or wrong about that, it shows Bankman-Fried’s trading giant Alameda rests on a foundation largely made up of a coin that a sister company invented, not an independent asset like a fiat currency or another crypto.

Now do tether.


Givemeurhats t1_iy4pucj wrote

The article in question came out November 2nd. People had apparently been screaming about FTX since June or July, and reporters were told by executives not to take the story


Amazing_Succotash677 t1_iy2g4g4 wrote

People still think all of crypto is a ponzi? Guess we really are early