Submitted by poke133 t3_zyw374 in technology
BababooeyHTJ t1_j28ucps wrote
Why? Are gas prices that high where it becomes such an attractive option compared to a hybrid like a Prius? Is the model y comparatively cheaper than other crossovers than in the US? Some sort of tax incentive? Average wealth higher?
I’m genuinely curious and don’t know enough about the EU economy.
Pdxlater t1_j28yv5i wrote
You will find a really negative narrative here, but it’s a really great car. The size is very functional, the tech is great, it’s very comfortable, and range is very high. Tesla still tops the industry in customer satisfaction.
BababooeyHTJ t1_j2981bt wrote
I completely understand that. I’m just surprised that such an expensive car is the top selling car in Europe. There’s something more to it. It’s 3 times the cost of a Prius here in the US. I can’t see the gas and possible service savings ever covering the difference not even including interest payments on the higher valued car.
Pdxlater t1_j29jgkj wrote
People don’t buy it for the cost savings. As much as people harp that Tesla isn’t a “luxury” brand, a big part of its market is taken from customers who would otherwise buy BMW, MB, etc.
BababooeyHTJ t1_j29xtfa wrote
When are any one of those status symbols the top selling cars in any area?
Pdxlater t1_j2a4hon wrote
It is a consolidation effect. The top monthly car in Europe is typically a compact car selling about 15K units. There is just not anything in the Model Y's league in terms of size/price in the market right now. A base Y in Germany is 54K euro. An ID.4 seems to be about 44K, but is significantly smaller. Now that production is fully underway it takes demand from a lot of other classes. That has been part of the sales success in the US. Prior brands of Tesla owners in the US range from Toyota to Mercedes.
BababooeyHTJ t1_j2aacwd wrote
Thank you! That makes a lot of sense.
paintball6818 t1_j2avooa wrote
I mean in Germany you can get like $9000 in incentives and tax savings, and then you go about saving $700 a year in gas, less maintenance and helping the environment.
Alimbiquated t1_j2b1vgd wrote
Also a lot of the cars in Germany are company cars, and there is a price range built in to the contract.
happyscrappy t1_j2b58zw wrote
It's just one car. It has this effect where people who buy an EV are disproportionately likely to buy this one car.
Non-EV crossovers as a whole massively outsell it. Also VW sells more EVs than Tesla does in Europe also, it just is spread across multiple models.
But if you are just looking at which car sold the most it's that one.
It won't last. All the European car companies are targeting Tesla and making gains. Another car (likely from a European make) will take over to become the most sold car in Europe.
AR2185 t1_j29cl66 wrote
When I bought my Tesla Y in early ‘21 it was about double the cost of a Prius. I work in construction management with some very long commutes and the math worked in its favor when I compared gas savings to larger car payments. Added bonus is I can charge at work for free most days as well, but that didn’t factor into my decision to buy because that can always go away. But I think they have more expensive in the time since. Prius is also much smaller, so the closer comparison would be the Rav-4 hybrid
themiracy t1_j29f3qa wrote
I thought that the quality reviews on this particular model were quite poor. Has this stuff gotten a lot better?
poke133 OP t1_j2a9amm wrote
Consumer Reports - 14 Dec 2022 - Tesla and Nissan Make the Most Reliable Electric Vehicles
> The relatively strong reliability of the Model 3 is unique among Tesla’s lineup: Its other models remain below average. Closely related to the Model 3, the newer Model Y has improved in recent years but still shows some suspension issues and body hardware problems associated with closing the hatch, and paint and trim. Owners have reported problems with the air suspension on the higher-end Tesla models.
it seems ModelY still has to catch up to Model3 in overall quality.
themiracy t1_j2aa05k wrote
Ahh, thanks for the point about the 3. I didn't know that it was doing better, that's nice to hear.
Apolitik t1_j2b7gxs wrote
I got a Y in October. A year before I test drove a 2020 Y—it was shit. The Y I got is one of the nicest cars I’ve ever been in. Spartan minimalism aside, the interior is incredibly comfortable and well put together. I’d say they’ve improved the quality a lot, but I also got an Austin built Y where I know the original Fremont built Ys were dogshit.
Pdxlater t1_j29h38t wrote
Initial quality that also includes cosmetic defects can be very different than overall customer satisfaction where Tesla excels.
SponConSerdTent t1_j29t30z wrote
I have to imagine that part of it is the fact that Tesla has so few models.
Since other manufacturers have what, 10, 15 different models to choose from, they could sell 10x as many cars, but the model Y could still be the bestseller.
If someone wants to buy a Tesla, they get the Model Y.
kuldan5853 t1_j29x0pi wrote
Yeah, that's basically the reason.
Teslas are still a speck of dust compared to the rest of the car market, it's just this single model gets sold more than the hundreds of other models on the market.
Even if the number are like 100 Model Y and 99 of each other car on the market, it would still be #1 even though overall it's not even a dent in the full picture.
swistak84 t1_j2bvsk4 wrote
With all fairness Tesla is more then a dent now. They sell more cars then Mazda, so they are not some minor player anymore. But you are completely right, the way they deliver cars and limited amount of models (really only 2 of them are mass market cars: 3 & Y). Means they are very high in sales-per-model stats.
kuldan5853 t1_j2bwj3d wrote
For sure - Tesla is still building some interesting tech (even though I personally hate the UX concepts and design principles that go in those cars) that is interesting to some, maybe even many.
But - their technological leadership (mainly drive train/battery tech) will not last forever, and more and more legacy automakers are now coming to market with attractive EV options that might appeal to a more conservative audience like myself.
It doesn't help that Tesla seems to be developing more and more for the tastes of one egocentric person instead of mass market appeal (the "Homer" comes to mind) - Sure, there's people that love whatever Tesla is doing with the yoke, stalkless design, the games, the fart modes and whatnot, (as well as the screen focuses UX that is divisive) but that's not mass market appeal.
I think the next three years will be a hard time for Tesla, especially in Europe - their cars are simply not adapted well to the European market at the moment, and good alternatives are coming to market at an ever increasing rate.
Leuchty t1_j2anekq wrote
Because Tesla delivered all their model Y in November. Look at the statistics for October, you won't find the Model Y in the top ten
rootbeerdan t1_j2a311i wrote
Taxes are so incredibly high in the EU and EVs have substantial VAT and registration exemptions to the point where a Prius would be the same price as a Tesla Model Y in some countries.
You can get a brand new Prius OTD for ~30k USD in most of the US, but you aren't getting a Prius for less than 45k EUR (50k USD) in most of Europe, and then you also have to pay 8 dollars per gallon to fill it up.
Imagine if you had to choose between a 50k Prius or a 55k Tesla (after subsidies), and you can see why these higher end EVs are doing so well.
BababooeyHTJ t1_j2aai0s wrote
That’s not even a decision at that point lol
TheUnfathomableFrog t1_j28x418 wrote
Among many reasons, gas is very expensive in Europe, much of it is cities that are poorly suited for combustion vehicles (city driving is inefficient, hence burning more gas), many governments are outlawing the sale of new consumer combustion vehicles in a few years to combat climate effects of combustion vehicles (so many people are getting ahead), to facilitate this many counties has increased taxes on combustion vehicles (IIRC Norway or Sweden has like 100% tax on combustion vehicles), so electric vehicles are better positioned price wise in some countries.
BababooeyHTJ t1_j298v8s wrote
I understand that but we’re talking about a car 3 times the cost of a Prius. Unless you can foot a much larger down payment you’re paying significantly more monthly in just interest payments that you’re never getting back. I’m having a hard time seeing where the savings come from.
Tax incentives makes sense but is just Sweden and Norway enough to skew the results for all of Europe?
I completely understand the appeal of the model y but it’s way out of my price range.
UnPlugged_Toaster t1_j2bq1vj wrote
its 3 times the cost of a prius here in NA, not really anymore as the new one starts at like 30k.
In Europe, your paying 8 bucks a gallon or even more, the VAT on ICE cars is really high to the point where its actually more expensive to buy a Prius than a Model 3 upfront. Then you get into the whole cost of electricity versus gas, little maintenance (no oil changes, less break weak, no transmissions, etc)
Majority of Europeans pay out the ass for gas because most European countries don't really product any of their own.
Like gas cars are so absurdly expensive in Europe, a base camry hybrid is FUCKING 61K USD: https://www.toyota.dk/nye-biler/camry
The model Y is 50000 Danish Krone more which is 5k USD and the model 3 standard range plus is cheaper and this is without any incentives. So in large swathes of Europe, its cheaper to buy a expensive ass Tesla than a toyota base trim upfront.
NA is kinda spoiled with its super cheap prices. Everything is so cheap here.
MrDagon007 t1_j2ape09 wrote
Well, for example in Belgium, most of the relatively expensive cars are leased by the company. The leasing price depends on lots of things, including taxes, running costs and resale value. This is why back when I lived there, I had a nice mercedes C in diesel in the same budget as some nondescript hyundai in petrol. I now see many of my colleagues, depending on the job level, ordering Tesla 3, Y, Polestar or BMW i series cars.
lord_pizzabird t1_j2996m7 wrote
I think the biggest issue with the Prius is just it's Dorkyness.
It's societally considered one of the least cool, rock bottom things you can buy. Where Tesla's may be unreliable, but they're atleast super cool.
Alimbiquated t1_j2b2rzf wrote
All the cars in the showroom of the the local Toyota dealer here (in Germany) are hybrid. They sell pretty well.
lord_pizzabird t1_j2b3wyz wrote
Yeah, nobody said that they don't sell well.
paintball6818 t1_j2aut2c wrote
Gas is like $7/gal there. The economics is much better.
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