Submitted by No-Drawing-6975 t3_zx9yji in technology
Bonez718 t1_j20354z wrote
Good. Everyone should unionize. Unions keep the power to the worker.
LiterallyZeroSkill t1_j226ygv wrote
Unions ruined my previous workplace. We used to get bonuses depending on performance. I'm on a 6 figure job and I'd get an extra $30-$40k per year with the bonus, which was great.
Then the union movement started at work, employees voted to unionize and the unions negotiated with management for some crappy % salary increase, year on year but in return bonuses were removed and it also reduced promotions.
I ended up leaving because I was making less than I was pre-unionization. Idiots who were bad employees couldn't get fired because the union protected them and they kept getting shifted from team to team because no manager wanted them on their team. People would magically start taking sick days on very important days in our year when we needed the most people at work, again management couldn't touch them because they were protected. Productive workers like me were given more and more work because the bad employees did less and less, so I was having to pick up the additional work, which would have been fine with me, except bonuses had been removed and promotions were gone. So there was no point for me to put in the effort I used to and I'd be better off slacking off like the rest of the idiots, put in minimal effort and just take that 3% pay rise year on year.
Unionizing just totally ruined the culture of the workplace. It turned into a shithole daycare centre for adults rather than a productive workplace.
9-11GaveMe5G t1_j228i81 wrote
This is libertarian fan fic
Charming_Wulf t1_j22i9xf wrote
I think this is some copy pasta as well. Definitely seen some variation of this in EVERY union post that goes big.
LiterallyZeroSkill t1_j22oe60 wrote
Not copy pasta at all, it happened to me.
It's probably a familiar story because it's not unusual for something like that to happen.
SofaKingStonedSlut t1_j22j6ly wrote
Well it’s a pretty fresh account so yeah, hardly authentic.
LiterallyZeroSkill t1_j22ohbd wrote
I mean you can look at my post history to see if I'm some sort of troll, which I'm clearly not.
Don't get why people dismiss others experiences for no reason.
TehRoot t1_j22srj2 wrote
because you're not allowed to run counter to the groupthink opinion
and most redditors have never been "high performers" ever, except maybe when they were in a grade school "gifted" class and got a gold star accompanied by a free lunch room pass for an extra ice cream for reading "The Phantom Tollbooth" the fastest.
AgnewsHeadlessBody t1_j22tit9 wrote
Ah yes something that goes against my view point. Must be fake.
AgnewsHeadlessBody t1_j22tfwn wrote
The down votes are flowing but in reality unions can be terrible for a workforce if managed incorrectly. They are sadly extremely important though. Where I work there are two unions for different groups. Both are absolutely hemorrhaging employees because they have terrible managers that only received their positions because of nepotism. I have spoken to 20 or so people who left the union to come over to the non union side because it was so bad.
LiterallyZeroSkill t1_j22u7sx wrote
>The down votes are flowing but in reality unions can be terrible for a workforce if managed incorrectly. They are sadly extremely important though.
That's fine, but I was just speaking about my specific workplace though. Wasn't commenting on all workplaces in the economy.
Unions might be great for some businesses, but for my previous workplace, it was terrible and I, and other employees who were really damn good at their jobs all left over the next few years.
>Both are absolutely hemorrhaging employees because they have terrible managers that only received their positions because of nepotism.
That'll never work. If you're employing people based on things other than experience, education, talent and fit for the work culture, it's likely not going to work out. Nobody wants to work for a business run by nepotism. Great way to lose talent. I don't know if nepotism is more prevalent in strongly unionized workplaces, but even without the union, they're going to crumble given enough time.
DelusionalZ t1_j2340el wrote
Sounds like the union fucked up their negotiations/were strong armed by the company. Hardly a common occurrence with good unions, and definitely not "working as intended" as you seem to be implying here.
Unionisation almost always results in higher pay and greater benefits and protections. They are, by definition, for labour. There are countless studies, cases, economists, etc. that back this up, and at this point it's common knowledge.
Unionise. If you don't, you lack the bargaining power as individuals, in a system where the owner-class already restricts that power.
Zombienerd300 t1_j21gn4z wrote
Not every field should unionize.
Example: Shitty teachers can’t be fired anymore. Instead they just move them to the next school.
Another Example: Shitty Refs can’t be fired, instead they just put them in the games that don’t matter as much.
Independent_Poem_625 t1_j21wwto wrote
The pros outweight the negatives
Arkenos8118 t1_j21jlwc wrote
Unions would ruin my work place. Fuck over young people who work hard for advancement, allow shitty workers to stay in place, the company would start to take advantage to force lower pay due to deal laws, I wouldn't be able to negotiate my own pay, and benefits would likely drop as administration is handed over to a larger union that promises better benefits but really just takes the cheapest deal. That ontop of union dues.
Unions are not always great.
Auedar t1_j21pbvd wrote
Unions are run by humans, which are elected to their position. So yeah, like any social construct run by humans, it can either good or bad. On the whole though, most industries/states that have heavy unionization have significantly better "real wage" income and healthcare benefits.
Businesses exist to create profit, with labor costs being the highest cost for businesses in pretty much any industry. A business wouldn't spend millions of dollars to fight a unionization effort if it wasn't going to lose them profit over having to pay higher wages or better benefits.
Arkenos8118 t1_j21u557 wrote
In the non union shop I work in we are above average across the industry in everything but life insurance, which we are average in. Locally, we are guaranteed to earn 5% more than any competitor. Why do people think unions are the best thing to exist? In the industry I work for, they only allow for all the shit I talked about, plus added distress from the actual hiring process and keeping your spot thereafter.
I did not say unions aren't great for some, but most certainly, as the comment I replied to was saying, they are not needed nor wanted in every workplace.
Auedar t1_j2a1z6u wrote
Solid response, and I get it. I have family in unionized and non-unionized shops. And yes, you are correct, they are not for everyone and not the right answer for every situation. I don't like the fact that you were downvoted for a completely reasonable response, and I'm sorry that you were.
But keep in mind, there are benefits to a union that benefit the industry/area as a whole.
For example, say a shop in Michigan pays $25/hr for an apprentice, with benefits, and around $35/hr for a journeyman of 5 years. Because of that, other shops competing for that same labor have to adjust compensation to compete. They can't pay $20/hr and have shitty raises if the unionized shop is hiring, since it will just snipe all of their workers. So even if you are not directly in a unionized location, if your INDUSTRY is heavily unionized (working trades, auto, etc.) it tends to benefit everyone within the industry. Also, because you can get compensated fairly well in trades, other industries in the area have to raise wages to compete for the same labor pool. You can see this really recently with the pandemic, since most businesses had to raise wages in order to get people to come work for them (they were competing with the governments unemployment of around $15/hr). Another great example was South Dakota during the shale boom, where places like McDonalds had to offer $15-$17 an hour for entry level workers in boom towns where the average was $7.25 elsewhere.
Pretty much all of my friends and colleagues who are not a fan of unions still deeply appreciate the protections to workers that they themselves have benefited from. Very few advocate for things like free labor movement so that any company can hire someone from anywhere, like South America, and move them here and pay them significantly lower wages. Very few advocate for child labor, which would again reduce wages. Very few advocate for companies being able to ship entire plants abroad, which crazy, reduces wages. Most people I've talked to are not pro-business or pro-free market when it stops benefiting them.
Arkenos8118 t1_j21ti7x wrote
Funny how people down vote just because their one sided view is challenged. If I still worked at McDonald's, I'd love a union. When I was working in the pharmacy at Kroger, I'd of loved a union. I don't. I work in manufacturing, and unless I'm working for a big 3 automotive union, then all it would do is fuck me and my fellow coworkers over. And even now, I still wouldnt be able to get a job at those places because first you have to work 5 years as a temp being underpaid and dealing with union workers shit for that entire time plus some extra before you actually get hired in. People really only consider the benefits for their industry, not others.
[deleted] t1_j20q0wl wrote
[deleted]
gnulynnux t1_j22glvu wrote
Horses are cool and they say neigh. What can't we be more horsey?
TheBatman327 t1_j20n7eh wrote
Go on strike let us know how much that union is going to pay you to picket? It’s Pennie’s compared to actual pay. You have no power.
Kevrawr930 t1_j21ak3x wrote
And the company makes even less. That's kind of the point, you big thicky boeboe.
TheBatman327 t1_j21qtco wrote
You don’t think they have people to bring in and do the work? It’s called contingency planning. All companies have it that are involved with unions.
Kevrawr930 t1_j222tly wrote
No, I don't.
Especially at a skilled job.
TheBatman327 t1_j22766k wrote
Odd I was in a union for 13.5 years and they had contingency plans each year for each job type that was up for negotiations. You don’t think the people they are using are “skilled” enough? They have already replaced McDonald’s workers with kiosks, and the employees that are preparing the food STILL mess it up. Vehicles that are produced by union workers mess up, some are recalled , some fail inspection because that “ skilled” worker didn’t do something right. So just how skilled does someone need to be?
I’ve seen some of the shittiest work ethic people get defended by the Union , and still got to keep their job. So does that job require a “skilled” worker?
Kevrawr930 t1_j22k71z wrote
You're confusing competency with skill and in so doing, confusing the issue.
Unions are no more evil nor repugnant than corporations. If we are to have one, we should have the other.
TheBatman327 t1_j22f4yv wrote
Thanks for the negative karma guys! Truly means a lot. How dare someone have a counter argument.
11B4OF7 t1_j20btm0 wrote
No they don’t. They put the power in the Union. You’re just a cog in another companies wheel
perfectworks t1_j20eojl wrote
real quick can you tell me the job title of the person you got that line from
dungone t1_j20fmsv wrote
It was his store manager at the McDonald’s.
[deleted] t1_j20p79e wrote
[removed]
11B4OF7 t1_j20i89t wrote
Chief executive officer. I got it from myself.
Kevrawr930 t1_j21add5 wrote
Ah, another CEO who thinks their job is important.
We should definitely just take your word for it, no really guys.
Astrix_I t1_j21ae0g wrote
Then your not a blue collar man and should shut the fuck up
11B4OF7 t1_j21aw98 wrote
At least I know the difference between your and you’re.
Armigine t1_j22b3cn wrote
> No they don’t. They put the power in the Union. You’re just a cog in another companies wheel
You sure don't appear to know the difference between "company's" and "companies" lol, Mr. "I promise I'm totes important on the internet"
shadowdash66 t1_j20fg9n wrote
Imagine being this brainwashed.
11B4OF7 t1_j20i40l wrote
Imagine being dumb enough voluntarily pay another company to manage you for your employer to also manage you.
Staticn0ise t1_j20mgv8 wrote
Your arguments are very misleading. Unions provide some major advantages over not having one. I'm guessing your a business owner who pays shit, and poor benefits. Who fears the union. As you provide the corporate boot licking arguments that are pure fiction.
Unions will provide you with better pay, better benefits and a better work life.
listur65 t1_j213pc2 wrote
I am guessing it's pretty rare, but he could have just had bad experience with a union. I work for a municipal utility/ISP and am covered under the local IBEW because of that. While I am still pro-union and pro-worker, and I realize my situation is sort of unique, I will give a few of the "meh's" about it from my angle.
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Over the last 15 years we have an average of 2.1% yearly wage increase, and that's with the last 3 years each being 3%. From what I see online that is below average.
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It is very hard to get rid of someone that is bad at their job. We had a tech banned from many of our larger customers locations(including other state owned businesses!), taken to court because of the quality of his work, and generally just gave a shit about nothing. The union made it such a pain to demote or fire him that the company basically gave up. It took a giant toll on the morale of the entire place.
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Our benefits are not great, but not horrible. Oddly enough even the other city employees that aren't part of the union have better. Our health insurance premiums went up 15% this year, which they squeezed in just after saying how amazingly lucky we are for getting a 3% raise.
DrakesDad_ t1_j210ree wrote
Unions were great when people were sleeping under their machines and getting paid 20 cents a day. Now, the idea of a union representing a bunch of blue haired video game developers is ridiculous. That being said, it will be awesome when they get their 45 paid sick days! Unions love getting their workers an insane amount of paid sick days so they can boast about how much they do for their employees 😂
Howdytherefella123 t1_j21b2jz wrote
"Workers with union representation enjoy a significant pay premium compared to non-union workers. The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports non-union workers earn just 83 percent of what unionized workers earn ($975/week vs. $1,169/week). When more workers have unions, wages rise for union and non-union workers."
You're a ghoul. Be quiet.
BraveFrakingToaster t1_j20foif wrote
Lick that boot, millionaire-to-be!
11B4OF7 t1_j20hsr0 wrote
Already a millionaire 😂
edit: for the uneducated. House + 401k + pension puts me in the millions. I can’t believe how dumb people are to think being a millionaire means you have access to millions of dollars to spend freely
ringjak t1_j20mfq6 wrote
Checked your posts. This millionaire is stressing over a $150 emergency fee to get their water heater repaired…. Goodbye, troll.
Edit for your edit: you’re willfully misrepresenting yourself. Before you deleted all of your posts, you were asking for advice as a first time homebuyer and using your VA loan. You likely do not have a lot of equity in your home, so using your home to support your self-proclaimed millionaire status is misleading. Again, you’ve been posting in DIY for advice to avoid a $150 fee on a hot water heater repair. You’re a troll making up bullshit and trying to backpedal to save face. Plain and simple.
SeniorRadical t1_j216h7w wrote
Yo i saw that water heater post. Coulda sucked it up and had it fixed by now.
Howdytherefella123 t1_j21ba81 wrote
Oh my lord, larping as a millionaire is a different kind of just absolute subservient behavior. Holy shit, straighten your spine.
Staticn0ise t1_j20mmsf wrote
Ahh the I got mine fuck everyone else argument.
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