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Useless_Advice_Guy t1_j6kwp45 wrote

To the surprise of absolutely no one.


BassmanBiff t1_j6lncz1 wrote

Including the feds, though. The point is just to make it harder, they know sanctions aren't perfect.


AadamAtomic t1_j6ly4zh wrote

It means China now has to buy from Unreliable Black markets ran by the CIA with pre installed malwar.

"This Is How They Tell Me the World Ends."

Even if you hate reading, Read it. Shits fucking good.


BassmanBiff t1_j6nz262 wrote

I hadn't thought of that, but it makes perfect sense. Thanks!


somegridplayer t1_j6mmiin wrote

It's barely harder, it's just a hassle. They can literally make a company in the next country over called "Literally Not China" and have them shipped there then re-ship. And nobody would care.


Dead_Or_Alive t1_j6mqo29 wrote

The point of sanctions is not stop China from using high end or mid level chips at scale. Yes there will always be ways around the rules.

What sanctions prevents is the capacity to build high tech products for mass consumption or use. You can’t setup a factory churning out high end products without the ability to reliably get chips at a consistent quality. Your not going to get chips at that scale on the black market.


somegridplayer t1_j6mrquc wrote

>What sanctions prevents is the capacity to build high tech products for mass consumption or use.

Which it never did.

>Your not going to get chips at that scale on the black market.

What are you even talking about? They don't have to go to the black market to get them.


realmastodon2 t1_j6l6x7l wrote

You can literally buy American chips in Taiwan or Vietnam. Set up a company in one of those countries and buy blacklisted products. Create a network to obfuscate the buyer and you get this.


Badtrainwreck t1_j6lfn8e wrote

Banning China from any technology just adds 2 extra steps to them getting whatever they want.


DividedState t1_j6lw1k7 wrote

It adds cost. Extra steps usually ask for a premium to cover their risk.


fpcoffee t1_j6l6wnh wrote

But… but it’s not allowed!?


digital_end t1_j6n3u6f wrote

Whole thread of snarky people with surface level understanding thinking they're clever.


AlphaTangoFoxtrt t1_j6n6znb wrote

You cant stop it, but you can make it more expensive.

Instead of buying the chips directly China has to set up, or go through intermediaries.

This adds overhead costs and risks. If they get the chips through a Vietnamese intermediary, the US can pressure Vietnam to shut it down or risk being sanctioned as well.


mad-hatt3r t1_j6l17r4 wrote

Trade ban makes Taiwan more enticing and forces China to produce better chips domestically. They won't match the quality or speed of Intel or AMD, but they have an educated workforce that learns quickly. China is not Russia and this could come to bite us down the road


Joooooooosh t1_j6mcj7l wrote

You say this but a lot of technical improvements in China have come from importing western specialists.

If you look at a lot of the high tech companies manufacturing there, the design teams and lead engineers come from the west.

The Chinese education system is kinda batshit insane and competitive on a level, few of us in the west can understand. It doesn’t really reward creative thinking or encourage people with novel ideas, quite the opposite really.

Not to say some really bright people don’t make it through but then they are presented with the classic issues within communist systems… cronyism and just endless red tape, very un-talented people gate keeping and protecting themselves. It leads to little or no innovation.


mad-hatt3r t1_j6niwe0 wrote

I agree that the competition in the schools are soul sucking and robs children of their childhood. However, you have a common Western view that I don't believe is very accurate. Mostly from people that don't understand the region. To say they don't innovate or have novel ideas is comforting for the west but wrong. I've heard from the heads of Google and even Elon talk about China, saying these stereotypes are completely absurd. Intelligent ppl innovate, Chinese can and will. Half of modern society arises from Chinese innovation, to dismiss that shows a real Western propaganda bias. Not here to give a lesson on history, or shill for a repressive regime. Just pointing out that these policies can and often will backfire


Joooooooosh t1_j6nw4ov wrote

Wasn’t really the point I tried to make, just by sheer percentages alone, China must have some real innovators.

The main issue is the political culture and systems of government and business.

Chinese people are just as capable as anyone else but only certain cultures seem to produce free thinking, trend busting and renegade inventors.

Look at the peak of the USSR, produced some of the smartest people in history. Unfortunately the rate of technological advancement stalled and suffered, because of the corrupt cronyism that’s rampant in communist states.

China isn’t a meritocracy, only favourable people to the regime are allowed to succeed and this is what stifles real innovation.

Productivity ground to a halt in the USSR due to massive corruption and I don’t see much evidence that this won’t happen in China. The regime at the top has tightened, Xi has surrounded himself by weak, yes men and expelled any dissenting voices.

The West tried to move closer to Russia and China, opening their economies up, hoping it would bring the nations closer. It has failed. Putin built an army with the profits and is trying to rebuilt the Soviet Union, Xi has centralised power and doubled down on Authoritarianism.

It will be interesting to see how the two economies manage without Western input, they might do fine but history is not on the side of corrupt, authoritarian regimes.


ThunderKant_1 t1_j6ovhot wrote

The exact same shit was said about Japan not so long ago… (that they can’t innovate and just steal all the tech from the west, and everything made in Japan is low quality). And actually the same has been said about Germany as well a little longer ago. So I would be cautious with these kind of statements, they don’t have a good track record.

Also there are already examples of fields were China is more technologically advanced and more innovative then the west, for example renewable energy or some aspects of EV manufacturing (new battery tech for example)


Joooooooosh t1_j6pi9cq wrote

I mean who knows what the future holds…

But why isn’t Russia a technological powerhouse…

Germany, Japan, Korea… these are not authoritarian countries, with nightmarish political systems. They ain’t perfect, but they ain’t totalitarian hellscapes either.

Just because things are going well somewhere, doesn’t mean the trajectory holds.

Iran was a beacon of progress in the East, now look at it… Brazil was poised to become a powerhouse but things fell apart.

No doubt Chinese industry has come a long way, turbo boosted by Western companies wanting a piece of the action but as the country becomes more insular, more extreme… let’s see how things go.

China’s rise was not Xi’s doing. He’s just the rich kid inheriting his Daddy’s fortune.


Sniffy4 t1_j6lmgxh wrote

bans are still useful in that China will not be able to obtain them in unlimited quantities as they otherwise would


[deleted] t1_j6lp3s8 wrote



Sniffy4 t1_j6lrfxt wrote

Just because some chips get through doesnt mean the ban is doing nothing. I dont think China will be able to easily outfit many huge data centers with tens of thousands of latest Nvidia chips to enable AI surveillance of its population, for instance.


[deleted] t1_j6lrq5m wrote



Sniffy4 t1_j6lyjza wrote

let us know where China can buy 10000 GeForce RTX 3090's on alibaba.


Agreeable-Meat1 t1_j6m03v4 wrote

There are party members in various countries that the CCP has financial interest in, they could easily "crowd source" through those people. 10 high end graphics cards will just look like someone setting up a crypto mining setup.


fog_of_war t1_j6m1f64 wrote

Easily... especially now since GPU mining is dead after the Ethereum merge. They can just get it from former miners for pennies on the *ahem* yuan.


Current-Power-6452 t1_j6lubxb wrote

You can't call a market open if you ban people from it. Call it a club 🤣


captain_joe6 t1_j6ky4qq wrote

Looks like someone didn’t read the EULA…


_TheQwertyCat_ t1_j6lvo2i wrote

That’s the way The Free Market™ works. Don’t like it? Move to Chi— oh wait...


schacks t1_j6mc6j9 wrote

I would guess the real reseller behind this are the CIA.


icebeat t1_j6lrhjt wrote

How do they know?


somegridplayer t1_j6mmduv wrote

I mean they could have just had them sent to an Amazon drop box the next country over.


pinkwblue t1_j6mwlw3 wrote

This has got to stop. But doing it is another issue. How ?


Le1bn1z t1_j6n0k4k wrote

People expecting these sanctions to be airtight or to be a product of mere "free market" problems should probably remember the famous American B-2 spirit bomber (EDIT: SR-71 reconnaissance aircraft) was made with titanium that was over 90% sourced from the Soviet Union during the Cold War.

Short of a military embargo, these sorts of sanctions are only partially effective, and can only reasonably prevent mass redistribution in composite products, or modestly increase costs and hassle.


Dz6810 t1_j6n4hw3 wrote

Imagine that one day China banned the export of rare earths to make weapons for the United States. The United States will obediently follow the instructions?


Grey531 t1_j6nbg0n wrote

I get why this isn’t allowed but nuclear power plants may be an area where we want to cooperate with anyone and everyone to ensure safest practises.


MrFartyBottom t1_j6lgpl6 wrote

Now we know why GPU prices are so fucking ridiculous.


BassmanBiff t1_j6lnjlb wrote

Artificially reducing demand would make them cheaper, if they're even targeted by these sanctions (I have no idea).


MrFartyBottom t1_j6lnra5 wrote

Not the sanctions, the Chinese military buying them up.