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Jaded_Prompt_15 t1_j5v5cqm wrote

It's not even "legal opponents"

If a giant law firm brings any type of lawsuit against MSG or it's parent company, they refuse to let any employee in.

So say someone wants to sue MSG, any law firm that takes the case, gets all their employees banned from there and every other venue.

So the problem is that can be considered harassment to prevent firms from taking those cases

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ruiner8850 t1_j5v9j2s wrote

> So the problem is that can be considered harassment to prevent firms from taking those cases

That honestly sounds like the entire point of what they are doing. For a lawfirm to be willing to sue them they have to be willing to sacrifice all their employees never to be able to go to any events there. They have to be willing to upset all of their employees. I'm sure there are lawfirms that wouldn't see taking a case against them being worth the trouble. Hell, some of them might have season tickets and don't want to lose those.

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Zwets t1_j5yi7tc wrote

> Hell, some of them might have season tickets and don't want to lose those.

So they wanna screw a whole lot of lawyers out of their already purchased movie/convention tickets, and want to do so by using a privacy invasion they could be sued for....

Let me know how that works out for them.

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jdland t1_j5znxvd wrote

They are simply robbing people who have potential claims against MSG of their day in court and, potentially, the opportunity to hire competent counsel.

It’s not the law firm or employees who have a beef with MSG, it’s the client.

I have to ask people defending this as a “right” of private businesses (not saying you are): what happens if this tactic is adopted large scale? Are regular citizens left no recourse against aggressive corporate leaders who want to avoid the consequences of their actions even more than they already do?

It’s a fascinating, albeit horrible, use of newish technology and I’m always curious how society adapts…though not optimistic it will be a beneficial adaptation.

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asdaaaaaaaa t1_j5xuubj wrote

I'll be honestly surprised if this is stopped instead of just being quietly picked up by governments now they can see the potency of such a tool combined with a national database. Combining something like this with proper security controls/automated kiosk things, you can literally tell people to leave things like secure locations without them even seeing a person.

If a company can sell this to a government and get leniency/immunity from lawsuits like this, they'll become pretty much essential to national security, a strong position to be in.

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tiptoeintotown t1_j5y9sgv wrote

They already do use it. Airports, casinos, hospitals.

My BF just returned from Japan and has that Clear service. He asked a random person a question in the customs line and they addressed him back by name, yet he never showed an ID to anyone while he passed through.

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Easy_Explanation299 t1_j5ynm9r wrote

Lmao how is that harassment? Yes, they have no obligation to let anyone in. They haven't broken any law. Yes, this can disincentivize you from wanting to sue them.

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PM_ME_C_CODE t1_j5vx545 wrote

Wow...this is all reposted verbatim from the last time this article was posted.

This top post, ruiner8850's post, Amazingawesomator's post...I swear I've read them all before exactly as they are.

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Jaded_Prompt_15 t1_j5w3dfo wrote

Meh.

I've seen bots reply to me with my own comments from downt thread before.

But I doubt they have time machines...

More likely this story has been going on for well over a year now, and people post similar summaries

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-newlife t1_j5wa8dk wrote

It also doesn’t detract from the discussion. I’d go so far as to point out it was helpful, unlike a “this was said before” reply.

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Arandmoor t1_j5xdqbi wrote

No. I mean "word for word" the comments are the same. I swear.

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aphasial t1_j5wwe4i wrote

Okay, but what's wrong with that?

If someone is actively suing me, I'm not letting them into a place I own either.

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LucyRiversinker t1_j5wx7yo wrote

The lawyers are not the plaintiffs. They are officers of the court.

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Trygolds t1_j5xkwkn wrote

They are also not a protected class.

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ukezi t1_j5xro9i wrote

However for instance their alcohol licence requires them to admit members of the public and enumerates the reason they can bar entry. Being an employee in a firm that is representing someone that is suing us is obviously not on the list.

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Trygolds t1_j5y7vth wrote

Than revoke the license based on that. A ruling that would make lawyers a protected class is froth with pitfalls.

I get in this case they are a big venue but I live in a small town and lets face it regardless of the lawyers just doing their jobs I can see someone not wanting to have a lawyer suing them as a patron.

We have seen in many cases lawyers exhibiting unethical legal behavior and how reluctant the bar is to sanction them

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ukezi t1_j5y9033 wrote

I don't think this is about them becoming a protected class. This is about retaliation being illegal, especially a blanket ban this wide. At least after they bought a ticket. I imagine the discussion would be different if they didn't sell a ticket in the first place.

The sale of a ticket is a contract and one should expect that the contract will not be broken without good reason.

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aphasial t1_j5x27ii wrote

Exactly. Even more potential cause.

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CadeMan011 t1_j5xfh4n wrote

Either you're trolling or you genuinely don't understand.

The people suing them aren't being turned away from events, employees of a very big law firm representing one client that is suing them are being turned away.

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aphasial t1_j5zj8oz wrote

This isn't a troll -- in fact I'm not certain the rest of you aren't trolling (with the caveat that: https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/10l7d41/comment/j5xdf1b/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 , which as someone not living in New York, I can't speak to)

Other than that (i.e., elsewhere), so long as discrimination isn't happening involving a Protected Class, venues can kick out or block entry to whomever they want. A venue (though maybe not in NY) has the right to refuse service to anyone if they so choose and that's that. Elsewhere there would be no legal question at all here.

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LucyRiversinker t1_j60u4d2 wrote

I wouldn’t have a problem with your reasoning if the plaintiffs were barred from entering the premises. I certainly wouldn’t work for you if you sued me. But the lawyers are doing their job. Yes, the people at MSG have a right because lawyers and employees are not a protected class. But they are the wrong target, if MSG wants to hurt its “enemies.” So we are not arguing the legality itself, but the consequences of this sort of attitude. I hate the slippery-slope fallacy, bit when does it end? Want to ban the lawyer of record? Ok. She or he directly benefits from the success of the lawsuit. The paralegal. O….k? The secretary? I am not so sure. IT department? The mailroom staff? Office maintenance staff? The cleaners? When is revenge enough?

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aphasial t1_j60vol2 wrote

I mean, I agree that there's plenty to talk about here when it comes to whether this is a good idea, or fair.

But plenty of people in this and similar threads are arguing around legality and rights of entry. And while that NY liquor law is interesting, I get the impression most of those arguing as such are simply suffering from the collective, seemingly-generation-wide illusion that discrimination not involving protected classes is somehow illegal.

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LucyRiversinker t1_j60y7js wrote

Agreed. Nobody is per se entitled to attend an event at MSG, or have a Twitter account, or have their own tv station carried by DirectTV (NewsMax is being dropped). This is just stupid vindictive. There is no benefit to MSG.

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tehtinman t1_j5xvxn1 wrote

Why can’t the accounting guy for the the law firm just watch the Knicks lose in-person in peace?

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AdUpstairs7106 t1_j5xdf1b wrote

For starters under NY law, if you have a liquor license, you can not refuse service to someone unless they pose a clear security threat.

So unless you want to lose millions in liquor sales you cannot do that.

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aphasial t1_j5zihk4 wrote

Thanks... this is the first response that actually addresses the question.

That seems like a weird law, but I live 2000 miles away in California. Does that apply to venues in general or only to liquor stores? (In CA I believe that would be an open vs closed container distinction...)

While there are additional regulations whenever ABC is involved, in CA so long as we're not dealing with protected classes, venues absolutely have the right to refuse service, kick someone out, 86 them entirely, or otherwise control access, and the liquor license doesn't block them from it.

Is this statewide in NY or just a NYC thing?

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AdUpstairs7106 t1_j5zt8n3 wrote

Venues in general unless you are a private members club only.

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indoninja t1_j60wlha wrote

If you are open to the public, or are selling tickets to the public, there should be a pretty high bar to blanket ban groups of people.

And if you’re going to do that, the onus should be on you publicly list, all those people, and all the groups, and make it clear to anyone buying a ticket who is on that list.

In this case, they were banning anyone they could find connected to a law firm that was representing a person, suing them, that looks to me like it’s harassment against the law firm for taking the case.

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AdUpstairs7106 t1_j5zv480 wrote

So remember that lawyer who was denied entry filed a lawsuit against MSG liquor license not against them.

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EruantienAduialdraug t1_j5xpi75 wrote

An example of what's been happening; multi-state law firm takes on a NY state based client that has complaint against MSG, MSG goes to said firm's website and puts everyone's photo into the banned list, employee who can't practice law in NY state is ejected without refund from the venue (along witwithh their family) for the audacity of having a job.

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SailorET t1_j5xosom wrote

The person in question wasn't involved in any case against MSG.

It's like refusing to serve coffee to the salvation army bell ringers because you disagree with salvation army's LGBTQ policies. That person has nothing to do with that policy and there's no reason to get personal about it.

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thirdegree t1_j5yxxw5 wrote

The lawyers aren't the ones suing, they're representing the ones suing. And no, you shouldn't be allowed to bar people for that.

Otherwise you have a situation where a giant corporation is able to use it's power to prevent people it has wrong from even getting legal representation in the first place, which is fucked.

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LingeringLonger t1_j5vq2yt wrote

James Dolan is a spoiled, entitled man baby. That’s the problem. Which is a shame because his father was an incredibly kind and generous man.

Oops: just realized, now I’ll be barred from MSG.

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Puzzleheaded-Ease-14 t1_j5vwuge wrote

NY state and NYC should sue them and see if they’ll ban all city and state government employees 😉

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uzlonewolf t1_j5xd5vu wrote

I don't think they would be that stupid, it would be bye-bye permits if they tried that.

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harrymfa t1_j5xtbse wrote

They have to evict them and rebuild Penn Station as it was. Repurposing the post office across the street was a lame attempt.

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Amazingawesomator t1_j5v7w53 wrote

Pissing off lawyers is not a great business plan.

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princeofhate t1_j5wddzt wrote

Facial recognition software should be banned.

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Betterthanbeer t1_j5vpp22 wrote

How do they even get the pictures of every employee to add to the database?

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Number6isNo1 t1_j5w0v1m wrote

Many law firms have bios with photos of their attorneys on their website.

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ECW-WCW-WWF t1_j5vw3mw wrote

Back when Vince McMahon’s father was running the biz he worked exclusively in MSG.

Back then wrestling promotions were based on location. They didn’t travel.

Vince’s father worked with the mob because they are the ones who actually ran MSG back in the day.

This led to Vince being dangled by his feet over the top of MSG. Seems like the mob still runs the show. They just got fancier jobs is all.

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Mathesar t1_j5v8vqy wrote

MSG should just claim they used the video for social media and the rest is just a coincidence :-)

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clickwir t1_j5xp2yw wrote

It shouldn't be used on anyone. Facial recognition should be illegal.

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thefriendlycouple t1_j5wywd5 wrote

Spectrum/Time Warner is a fucking awful company.

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uzlonewolf t1_j5xdk6c wrote

Spectrum (Charter Communications) != Time Warner != Time Warner Cable (which no longer exists)

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BeMoreChill t1_j5yc3dk wrote

Charter bought time Warner

Edit: Time Warner cable*

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uzlonewolf t1_j60o5dd wrote

Completely false. Charter bought Time Warner Cable (TWC), they did not buy Time Warner.

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BeMoreChill t1_j60odjk wrote

Yeppp you’re right I read your comment wrong. I used to work for charter lol

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calvin43 t1_j5x8qw6 wrote

Dolan is a really small man. Figuratively and literally.

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Inconceivable-2020 t1_j60mun2 wrote

Answers to questions like: What software are you using? Where can we get it? How Satisfied are you with it?

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Smith6612 t1_j629qvw wrote

Tomorrow: NY AG banned from MSG.

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aphasial t1_j5wwm2k wrote

Facial recognition is a red herring; casinos have been doing this for decades.

As to whether refusing entry to people involved with a lawsuit is OK... Why wouldn't it be?

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reddideridoo t1_j5wxtxc wrote

Maybe because those involved don‘t have a choice?

How about we involve you in this? You work at a company, yes? And you go to venues in your private life? Guess what, because you working for said company just got you banned. Simple as that. You must be okay with that, right?

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aphasial t1_j5x24xn wrote

Lawyers are very f*cking aware that they are not average, ordinary citizens when it comes to their private life.

And while IANAL (I work in tech), there have been times when entire subdomains have been blocked from registering or participating in some activity as a result of pending litigation -- secretaries' work email addresses included.

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galileotechno t1_j5x3dhi wrote

I am an attorney. I have been refused service at coffee shops, restaurants and even retail shops where the owner was related to or was someone on the other end of a (edit: resolved) lawsuit (or more frequently the victim in a criminal case where I repped the defendant).

Comes with the territory of being a lawyer.

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Butterbuddha t1_j607cbl wrote

Lol damn, suffering from success!

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galileotechno t1_j60pual wrote

I’ve also gotten free meals and thank-you gifts from families of people I have helped. It’s a trade-off. Attorneys are one of the few professions where you are hired specifically to be adversarial to someone. It is not surprising that some people take that personally one way or another.

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EruantienAduialdraug t1_j5xpr1r wrote

Aside from the fact they're ejecting people that have nothing to do with the suits? Literally, people who passed the bar in different states.

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MonkeeSage t1_j5wiku6 wrote

The stuff about possibly being illegal to ban legal opponents from entry makes sense. This last bit is silly.

> Lastly, research suggests that the Company’s use of facial recognition software may be plagued with biases and false positives against people of color and women.

1.) Nobody is being banned just from facial recognition. Human security guards contacted the woman and confirmed her identity. 2.) People in general are biased, including the police in your state, so now they can't have security guards or police either?

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Nemesis_Ghost t1_j5wusqp wrote

If 90% of the false positives are people of color or women that's still a problem. Imagine you are going to an event at MSG & get stopped by security b/c of a false positive. Security usually isn't very nice to someone they suspect of being a problem. Being stopped by security for any reason can ruin an evening, and that's before you factor in intoxication or other factors.

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Kitchen-Award-3845 t1_j5x8qj7 wrote

There aren’t any false positives AFAIK, just false negatives, AKA darker skinned folks don’t get a match at all.

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MonkeeSage t1_j5wzy9p wrote

What prevents a human security guard from misidentifying a woman or person of color when they are using their own eyes looking at a cctv screen and comparing against a list of people who are not allowed? The AI training data being potentially biased toward being able to better identify white males is based on training data from humans.

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